Can you have sexual arousal without lust?

[JoeyArnold]

Arousal is like dessert without dinner.

 

[hedrick]

We should probably use the Greek definition. While natural desire is a possible meaning, it normally means an illicit desire. From Louw and Nida:

25.20 ἐπιθυμέωb; ἐπιθυμίαb, ας f: to strongly desire to have what belongs to someone else and/or to engage in an activity which is morally wrong—‘to covet, to lust, evil desires, lust, desire.’
ἐπιθυμέωb: ἀργυρίου ἢ χρυσίου ἢ ἱματισμοῦ οὐδενὸς ἐπεθύμησα ‘I have not coveted anyone’s silver, gold, or clothing’ Ac 20:33; ὁ βλέπων γυναῖκα πρὸς τὸ ἐπιθυμῆσαι αὐτήν ‘anyone who looks at a woman lustfully’ Mt 5:28.

TEV translates: But now I tell you: anyone who looks at a woman and wants to possess her.

 

[Theofane]

Separating lust from arousal is like separating the salt from the pepper.

Bad example-- salt and pepper can be kept in separate shakers. But sexual arousal and lust are one and the same. I should know, I'm a sinful man.

 

[gasman64]

If we go by the modern day definition of the word, than no. Lust is needed for arousal. Lust is defined as:

noun
1. intense sexual desire or appetite.
2. uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness.
3. a passionate or overmastering desire or craving (usually followed by for ): a lust for power.
4. ardent enthusiasm; zest; relish: an enviable lust for life.
5. Obsolete .
a.pleasure or delight.
b.desire; inclination; wish.

verb (used without object)
6. to have intense sexual desire.
7. to have a yearning or desire; have a strong or excessive craving (often followed by for or after ).

So it would seem, that by our modern day definition of the word, that Lust is a strong sexual desire. Then, put that in biblical context, and it would seem that arousal and lust are intertwined.

Some could argue that sex between husband and wife is sinful, because their coupling has more to do with lust (sexual desire) than saying, "hey, let's give thanks to God by getting naked and having intercourse."

That's what the gnostic's taught. They taught that intercourse was just for procreation and not for enjoyment. Don't know how they ignore song of solomon.

Lust is a strong deep seated desire. One that goes beyond a simple urge. You can't stop thinking about it. You have no control and you covet. If you can't tell the difference, then chances are you have a problem. And you will not be able to look at it from a perspective of balance. It isn't just sexual. But it often is.

 

[JoeyArnold]

Lust is going after arousal in the wrong ways.

 

[walk the talk]

Lust is going after arousal in the wrong ways.

It all starts with what the Bible clearly says is right or wrong not what we try to think is right or wrong. After Christ was sacrificed on the cross for our sins it released us from the law and we became free to do as we pleased because the Holy spirit is with us and has a relationship with us. We obey through the Love we have for him and are convicted of the sins we commit through the holy spirit. If the Bible doesn't clearly say something is wrong we are totally free from what the church thinks, traditions or anything else to simply follow our convictions. We are told to take care of our body and our family and if anything is damaging or harmful to us it is clear and also common sense to not do it. Debating is great fun and a lot of things can be learned from this but in the end we have to go back to the bible not what we think is right.

 

[walk the talk]

as far as self pleasure and erotic stories, if it isn't excessive or turned into an obsession, the bible isn't clear on this and there are plenty of erotic stories in the bible. There are even shockingly perverse stories with beastiality, lesbians, gays, insest and every other sex acts and sexual perversion you can think of. The Song of Songs is really mild compared to some other stories. Nowadays you wouldn't even consider reading this material off of a shelf and some of it would be downright illegal. But you do find it in the Bible. Also some of the most violent, I'm talking bloody stories and politically incorrect are all found in the Bible. Are we supposed to just look over these and say that they are sinful to read? Depending on the story, I feel a little uncomfortable to read them, or sometimes aroused sexually or sometimes angry, I feel that for some reason the sexual response we feel on any given moment depending on our environment has been taboo for so long in our society that we automatically think that it is a sin. Well get back to the Bible and start reading. I think that the key to all of this is that the Bible allows us a window into what God, the Holy spirit and Jesus would want for us to live by. It is an instruction book, an entertaining book, Holy book, and brings light to the worlds ways. I think I am rambling on, so I will stop now.

 

[JoeyArnold]

After Christ was sacrificed it released us from the law & we became free to do as we pleased.

Do we have to follow the Ten Commandments or not?

 

[JoeyArnold]

There are plenty of erotic stories in the bible.

Is homosexuality good or bad?

 

[walk the talk]

If you are not sure if things are right or not read your Bible. That should be your guide. We are free to do as we choose for everything else that seems right to us. God is great!!
I obey his commands because I love him not because he is a dictator.

 

[walk the talk]

Do we have to follow the Ten Commandments or not?

We don't have to do anything, we may not get Gods blessings, but we can choose to do whatever we want. If you are one of Gods children we will obey because we love him, not because he says we have to.

 

[walk the talk]

Bad example-- salt and pepper can be kept in separate shakers. But sexual arousal and lust are one and the same. I should know, I'm a sinful man.

I would ask a few other experienced men or women for that matter before I make that claim.

 

[sorednax]

as far as self pleasure and erotic stories, if it isn't excessive or turned into an obsession, the bible isn't clear on this and there are plenty of erotic stories in the bible. There are even shockingly perverse stories with beastiality, lesbians, gays, insest and every other sex acts and sexual perversion you can think of.

Not sure if they're inclusion in the bible was meant to be arousing to the reader, but I see your point.

After Christ was sacrificed on the cross for our sins it released us from the law and we became free to do as we pleased because the Holy spirit is with us and has a relationship with us.

I agree. There are some laws that just seem absurd. What's that passage in Deuteronomy that says if a man rapes a virgin, he must marry her and pay her family a lump some of silver?

Yeah, I'm sure that would go over well:

Hey John, what a splendid wedding you threw for your daughter. How'd you afford it?

Well Larry, seems her husband raped her a few months back, and now she's got to marry him. He paid us $50k in compensation, so we used that money to throw her a memorable wedding.

 

[cutie76]

As for me, yes! It happens without warning and it used to be worse when I was single. I would be thinking about something unrelated and all of the sudden, sexual arousal - BOOM! No sexual thoughts led to it, just hormones, I guess.

 

[walk the talk]

You crack me up sorednax. I couldn't help myself on that post, keep that up and you will finish me off.

 

[walk the talk]

thanks for the input cutie76, i was starting to think I was alone on this.

 

[JoeyArnold]

Who said you were alone in this?

 

[walk the talk]

Who said you were alone in this?

Thanks for the encouragement Joey.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Romans 13:9 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Heres some verses, was looking at bad coveting and good coveting, of evil things (or forbidden things) to desire (or lust after) and good things to covet.

That which belongs to your neighbor

Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Covet there (took from the greek where Paul quotes it)

1) to turn upon a thing
2) to have a desire for, long for, to desire
3) to lust after, covet
a) of those who seek things forbidden


To desire or lust for what is fobidden you of things belonging to your neighbormore specifically.

We should not lust after "evil things"

1Cr 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

However, finding your own wife is a good thing


Prov 18:2 Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

And here of a wife it says...

Prov 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

Prov 5:19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.

Prov 5:20 And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman , and embrace the bosom of a stranger?

To David whose intent was toward another mans wife

2Sam 12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife


Which is interesting because it also says this

2Sam 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme


Similiar wording found here...(this to wives)

Titus 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Good coveting here...

1Cr 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1Cr 14:29 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
　
This word

1) to burn with zeal
a) to be heated or to boil with envy, hatred, anger
1) in a good sense, to be zealous in the pursuit of good
b) to desire earnestly, pursue
1) to desire one earnestly, to strive after, busy one's self about him
2) to exert one's self for one (that he may not be torn from me)
3) to be the object of the zeal of others, to be zealously sought after
c) to envy

Theres a just a few, still looking at this

 

[walk the talk]

Romans 13:9 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Heres some verses, was looking at bad coveting and good coveting, of evil things (or forbidden things) to desire (or lust after) and good things to covet.

That which belongs to your neighbor

Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Covet there (took from the greek where Paul quotes it)

1) to turn upon a thing
2) to have a desire for, long for, to desire
3) to lust after, covet
a) of those who seek things forbidden


To desire or lust for what is fobidden you of things belonging to your neighbormore specifically.

We should not lust after "evil things"

1Cr 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

However, finding your own wife is a good thing


Prov 18:2 Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

And here of a wife it says...

Prov 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

Prov 5:19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.

Prov 5:20 And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman , and embrace the bosom of a stranger?

To David whose intent was toward another mans wife

2Sam 12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife


Which is interesting because it also says this

2Sam 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme


Similiar wording found here...(this to wives)

Titus 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Good coveting here...

1Cr 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1Cr 14:29 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
　
This word

1) to burn with zeal
a) to be heated or to boil with envy, hatred, anger
1) in a good sense, to be zealous in the pursuit of good
b) to desire earnestly, pursue
1) to desire one earnestly, to strive after, busy one's self about him
2) to exert one's self for one (that he may not be torn from me)
3) to be the object of the zeal of others, to be zealously sought after
c) to envy

Theres a just a few, still looking at this

Thanks for all your hard work, it is great to see that this is being taken seriously.