Universalism

[Paradoxum]

I
Personally i'm not sure i'd like worshipping God in heaven for eternity. Sounds like a form of psychological torture.P
Isn't that what Christians believe happens in heaven?

Worship can be a wonderful. Being with the beautiful, the good, and the one you love?

My problem is that I find it hard to believe anything is actually eternal.

 

[Robban]

I don't; obviously.
But the concept is an interesting one.

Personally i'm not sure i'd like worshipping God in heaven for eternity. Sounds like a form of psychological torture.P
Isn't that what Christians believe happens in heaven?

I see your point, but to concentrate on the here and now is better,
concentrate on bringing down heaven to here on earth.

 

[Johnnz]

I don't; obviously.
But the concept is an interesting one.

Personally i'm not sure i'd like worshipping God in heaven for eternity. Sounds like a form of psychological torture.P
Isn't that what Christians believe happens in heaven?

Heaven is not our destiny - a renewed earth is. The best parts of life here are just glimpses of what a fully redeemed creation will be like. That is something to look forward to. Playing harps on clouds has never appealed to me.

John
NZ

 

[Robban]

Worship can be a wonderful. Being with the beautiful, the good, and the one you love?

My problem is that I find it hard to believe anything is actually eternal.

Don,t know if this has anything to do with your thoughts on eternity,
When I was about five years old, about that, can,t say for sure now,
but in the summer I would lay down in the grass and look up at the blue sky and try to see where it ended, thought that if I could only see a boundary somewhere, but if I had seen a boundary, what would be beyond that, and beyond that. I gave up, I don,t think we have the ability to grasp the meaning of eternity yet, may be wrong though.
But for me it is as all systems shut down, it,s kind of too much, for me at least.

 

[Paradoxum]

Don,t know if this has anything to do with your thoughts on eternity,
When I was about five years old, about that, can,t say for sure now,
but in the summer I would lay down in the grass and look up at the blue sky and try to see where it ended, thought that if I could only see a boundary somewhere, but if I had seen a boundary, what would be beyond that, and beyond that. I gave up, I don,t think we have the ability to grasp the meaning of eternity yet, may be wrong though.
But for me it is as all systems shut down, it,s kind of too much, for me at least.

I don't believe the universe goes on forever. It's just sort of a thing for me that I don't believe infinites exist. I guess I think the universe loops round at some point, like living on a sphere. I don't know if that is true though... I haven't read physics in a while.

 

[Robban]

I don't believe the universe goes on forever. It's just sort of a thing for me that I don't believe infinites exist. I guess I think the universe loops round at some point, like living on a sphere. I don't know if that is true though... I haven't read physics in a while.

If the universe does not go on forever, where does it end, if it ends what is beyond?
Doubt very much if physics has anything to do with it,
doubt very much if we can know until when the time comes.

 

[Paradoxum]

If the universe does not go on forever, where does it end, if it ends what is beyond?
Doubt very much if physics has anything to do with it,
doubt very much if we can know until when the time comes.

Physics has everything to do with it. Imagine an ant on a ball. The ball never ends for the ant, but isn't infinite either.

 

[Robban]

Physics has everything to do with it. Imagine an ant on a ball. The ball never ends for the ant, but isn't infinite either.

An ant on a ball?
What,s that got to do with it?
What it,s about is this,
if you were able to flap your arms and fly,
so you take off and fly straight up, and keep on going.
Where eould you end up?

 

[Paradoxum]

An ant on a ball?
What,s that got to do with it?
What it,s about is this,
if you were able to flap your arms and fly,
so you take off and fly straight up, and keep on going.
Where eould you end up?

You would be outside the universe. The point would be the space could be wrap in a sphere so that it comes back on itself.

 

[non-religious]

[Robban]I see your point, but to concentrate on the here and now is better,
concentrate on bringing down heaven to here on earth.

Good call

I agree.. As cliche as this sounds. I never really think about heaven, I'm too busy living in the here and now. I know enough about it (scripturally speaking), but I tend not to think about it.

When I think about how many people God sends to hell (I know some like to suggest that God doesn't send anyone and that people choose by default if they reject Jesus) throughout history, the numbers of men, women and children suffering for an eternity would be staggering. I think it would be important to point out that children would be part of that equation. Unless someone can point to a place where an age of accountability exists.

Yet on the other hand, there are Christians who will thank God for the new car someone has blessed them with or the phone bill being paid etc... So we have a God who intervenes on behalf of Mr Jones and his prayer for a new Ford Fiesta, but Mr and Mrs Patel, who were born in a part of India that is overwhelmingly Hindu, are destined for an fiery eternity because of where they were born?

As a believer, I am finding it increasingly difficult to believe in a God that would even come up with such a cruel and twisted idea. I find it abhorrent and for the life of me I struggle to see how anyone can justify such a scenario. To casually state that it is God's ways and not ours no longer works with me. I therefore have to believe that if heaven is real, we all get there.

 

[Robban]

You would be outside the universe. The point would be the space could be wrap in a sphere so that it comes back on itself.

Might just as well admit that neither you, I, or anyone else knows.
We have our limits.
As far as I,m concerned, case closed.

 

[Paradoxum]

Might just as well admit that neither you, I, or anyone else knows.
We have our limits.
As far as I,m concerned, case closed.

I know I don't know, but as said, I haven't read about this recently so I don't remember the opinion of physicists.

 

[non-religious]

[Johnnz]Heaven is not our destiny - a renewed earth is. The best parts of life here are just glimpses of what a fully redeemed creation will be like. That is something to look forward to.

I have asked others this question before, so if you don't mind, I'll ask you.

How would you enjoy the renewed earth and all its wonders, whilst there are literally billions of people, some maybe even known to you, suffering inextricably in pain for ever?

If one thinks about people starving in parts of Africa, or children being abused etc... here on earth. We can intervene, we can mobilise politically, economically etc... We still live our lives and have enjoyment, but we know and appreciate what we have and how we can make some kind of difference. When on the new earth, that will not be possible. So will we simply ignore it? Will God remove any trace of it from our consciousness?

If the latter is true, then does that mean we're no longer able to think independently? There are so many questions. I'm not asking you to answer them all btw

Just interested in your thoughts

 

[Robban]

I know I don't know, but as said, I have read about this recently so I don't remember the opinion of physicists.

I did not mean to be insulting in any way, just I wanted to drop out,
because it may go on forever and that,s a long time,
or what say you?

 

[Paradoxum]

I did not mean to be insulting in any way, just I wanted to drop out,
because it may go on forever and that,s a long time,
or what say you?

I know, I just wanted to make the point that just because neither of us knows, it doesn't mean no one knows.

You can be on your way now

 

[lismore]

How would you enjoy the renewed earth and all its wonders, whilst there are literally billions of people, some maybe even known to you, suffering inextricably in pain for ever?

Now is the time to warn them?

 

[Robban]

I know, I just wanted to make the point that just because neither of us knows, it doesn't mean no one knows.

You can be on your way now

I thank you kindly ma`am

 

[ebia]

It does not seem to be the case:

There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

(John 12:48)

There are passages that seem to point one way, and some that seem to point the other way.

 

[Nabobalis]

If the universe does not go on forever, where does

The universe will "end", given several trillions of trillions of trillions of trillions of years. At the moment, a heat death seems the most likely where there is literally nothing but darkness but in this case the universe is still around just for lack of a better word "empty".

 

[ebia]

Anyone looking for some thoughts on the end of the universe that combine the theology of resurrection/new creation with serious physics could do worse than read The God of Hope and the End of the World by phycisist turned theologian, John Polkinghorne.