If God loves us, why does he send us to hell?

[bottomofsandal]

You are honestly telling me that you could stand before a person and watch them writhe in agony, knowing it will continue forever, and think to yourself Hallelujah? What if that person was your mother, your daughter, the little old lady down the road? My mind is boggled. I would not wish that fate (if eternal) on my worst enemy.

Hey,


The Bible tells us we will not be sad or sorrowful in Heaven, and every tear will be wiped away. In His Presence is the fullness of joy. The feeling that we think we should have regarding our loved one's eternity may not be accurate. We say these things as a human, but if God in His Perfectness can righteously live with some of His creation in hell, then we should be able to agree with it also. I mean no disrespect, neither am I being trite or condescending, rather just attempting to point out that see through the glass dimly/darkly.

 

[Timothew]

These were dead and alive.
They will eternally be dead but alive.

No, you can't be dead and alive at the same time. The fact that your doctrine leads you to this contradiction should be telling you something.

 

[dollarsbill]

No, you can't be dead and alive at the same time.

Yes indeed.

Genesis 2:17 (NASB)
17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Colossians 2:13 (NASB)
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

Luke 15:24 (NASB)
24 for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.' And they began to celebrate.

Ephesians 2:4-5 (NASB)
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Romans 7:9 (NASB)
9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;

1 Timothy 5:6 (NASB)
6 But she who gives herself to wanton pleasure is dead even while she lives.

Revelation 3:1 (NASB)
1 "To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: 'I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

The fact that your doctrine leads you to this contradiction should be telling you something.

I'm not the Author of the Scriptures I just listed. You need to tell Him.

 

[Timothew]

Regardless, It is physically impossible to be BOTH DEAD AND ALIVE.

 

[dollarsbill]

Regardless, It is physically impossible to be BOTH DEAD AND ALIVE.

I understand that is your opinion. But you didn't address the Scriptures I provided about those who were alive and dead at the same time.

 

[Timothew]

I understand that is your opinion. But you didn't address the Scriptures I provided about those who were alive and dead at the same time.

We've discussed them before.

Genesis 2:17 (NASB)
17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Yes, and Adam did die, Just as the bible says. You don't understand the phrase "in the day".
But you aer the one saying people can sin and still live forever. Well, you and the serpent who said "Surely you won't die."

 

[dollarsbill]

Well, you and the serpent who said "Surely you won't die."

What?

 

[Timothew]

Well, you and the serpent who said "Surely you won't die."

What?

Read the book of Genesis:
The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!" Genesis 3:4
And you also believe that sinners don't die, they live forever being tortured in hell.

 

[dollarsbill]

Read the book of Genesis:
The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!" Genesis 3:4
And you also believe that sinners don't die, they live forever being tortured in hell.

You have misunderstood.

 

[bottomofsandal]

But what if it's not about torture or even sending?

What if it's the inability for some to accept God?

What if it's their desire to reject God.

That separation what ever it is, does not have to be "torture" that could be hell. Annihilation? May be. Or a endless separation, a hell of our own making.

I don't think there is a literal pit of fire and we jump in or get pushed in.

Origen wondered if this fire was not a purification process and wondered if all would eventually be saved. Wondering this cost him greatly but he never taught universal salvation, just posed the question. We really don't know every thing yet.

Hey,


I like what you are saying-what is the definition of "torture" in The Bible ?

Is the absence of God's Holy Presence considered torture ?


"Torture" is only in the NIV, and it is used in a statement by a demon. What do you think the demon is referring to by "torture" ?


Matthew 8:29

New International Version (NIV)

29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”

 

[Timothew]

You have misunderstood.

Oh, I'm glad.


Because earlier you had been saying that the lost are dead and eternally destroyed and also live alive forever at the same time, while they are dead.

These were dead and alive.
They will eternally be dead but alive.

That can't be right. You must mean "these were dead and NOT alive" and "They will eternally be dead but NOT alive."
I'm so glad I misunderstood what you meant, but if you meant they were both alive and dead AT THE SAME TIME, that would be a contradiction.

 

[youngdisciplectl3]

God permits sin and the consequence of it.

 

[Timothew]

God permits sin and the consequence of it.

Yes, But the consequence of sin (or as the Apostle Paul puts it: The wages of sin) is death. Not eternal torture in hell.

 

[apocolypticremedy999]

Yes, But the consequence of sin (or as the Apostle Paul puts it: The wages of sin) is death. Not eternal torture in hell.

But there is more than one death. Sin leads to death and death leads to hell.

 

[Armistead14]

Because God isn't just good, he is a good judge. God is good and when he sends people to hell he has good reason. Sinners deserve to go to hell, but God chose to have mercy on some of us. Thank you God for giving people what they deserve and thank you for having mercy on some of us.

"Sinners deserve to go to hell".....really, for being born failed humans, failed humans born with a sin nature deserve endless torture for a brief period of sin nature. Course, most believe it's not the sin nature, it's not having Christ, no the majority go to hell simply because they never heard the gospel.

Is God fair and just, is it fair to send billions to hell where children are indoctrinated from birth to follow the religion of their parents and culture, such as in China, India, the Mideast? If you were born in any of these nations you would have a 95% chance of being a buddist, hindu or muslim.

You thank God for giving people endless torture because they deserve it, why having mercy on some? Would you as a parent that created a child, if that child turned against you, would you have a need to torture it forever for doing so? I know I would never need to torture the children I created because they refused me, yet God who loves more needs to torture his creation... Seems God is no better than Hitler, create a lil sect all to himself why torturing everyone else.

Most accept Christ not out of love, but fear of hell, that isn't how I base a loving relationship, sure I could go up to a person, put a gun to their head and tell them they had to confess they loved me or I would shoot, they would say they loved me......that's all hell does, it makes people get a Jesus ticket and play christian so they won't be eternally tortured.

 

[Timothew]

But there is more than one death. Sin leads to death and death leads to hell.

Could you please provide the scriptural support for this statement?

 

[apocolypticremedy999]

Could you please provide the scriptural support for this statement?

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." -Revelation 21:8

 

[Timothew]

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." -Revelation 21:8

Well, you said sin leads to death and death leads to hell. But the scripture you posted says that the fiery lake is the second death. This is what I believe, that the wages of sin is death, not eternal torture in hell.

 

[apocolypticremedy999]

Well, you said sin leads to death and death leads to hell. But the scripture you posted says that the fiery lake is the second death. This is what I believe, that the wages of sin is death, not eternal torture in hell.

And that's what I'm saying, you are correct. however, there is more than one death, for first we die a physical death, but afterwards sinners die a spiritual death which is eternal, this is the second death. What do you think the lake of fire is? It is eternal burning.

• Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. -Revelation 20:14
• And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. -Revelation 20:10
• If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. -Revelation 20:15

It's a harsh fact and I understand that many do no want to accept it, but it is the truth and it is indeed just punishment on God's part, for I know how truly bad sinners can really be, and one of the most heinous crimes you can commit before God is to deny his Son who loved you enough to give his own life for you, for accpeting him could cover almost all sins, but no sin can be covered apart from him, so such a sin is indeed worthy of enternal damnation. And true believers need not be worried about hell, for Christ has surely saved them from such a punishment by taking the punishment of sin which was death upon himself. The wages of sin is indeed death, but there is more than one death., it's not just we live in sin and die in the grave and that's it, for where we spend eternity is then determined by God who is the just judge on judgment day

 

[Timothew]

And that's what I'm saying, you are correct. however, there is more than one death, for first we die a physical death, but afterwards sinners die a spiritual death

I'm not finding "spiritual death" in my bible. Could you point out the verse and which translation you are using?

What do you think the lake of fire is?

John said the lake of fire is the second death, not eternal living torture.

It is eternal burning.

This is not what John said the lake of fire is. He said it was the second death.
Revelation 20:14 "The lake of fire is the second death."

OK, now is the time (If my past experiences on CF are any indication) where you get angry at me for not agreeing to eternal torment. Please don't, I've answered you biblically. Eternal torture is not in the bible so I don't see any reason to think God set up an eternal torture pit.