Why would I want to live forever?

[EmmaXO]

There is some documented evidence of after-death experiences, which have been found to occur when the brain is completely non-functional, something that scientists used to think was impossible.

Can you provide an article from a scientific, non-religious source, please?

 

[juvenissun]

So if something has no concrete evidence, why believe it?

Because there are still evidences. Concrete or not is only a qualifier, which does not necessary eliminate the existence.

If you still want example, then please specify what kind of evidence you like to see. Remember that they are all arguable evidences.

 

[juvenissun]

Can you provide an article from a scientific, non-religious source, please?

In fact, there are many.

I search "after-death research" and got many hits. And here is one of so-called "article": ADCRF Research by Jody Long

I am sure there are many well funded scientific research works on these very hard issues. Whatever you can think of, there are people who study it seriously.

 

[GrayAngel]

Can you provide an article from a scientific, non-religious source, please?

Evidence for near-death experiences comes from secular sources, including an organization called the Near Death Experience Research Foundation (NDERF) and the International Association for Near-Death Studies (IANDS). There was an episode devoted to it on Dr. Oz, and a BBC documentary called "The Day I Died."

Obviously, it can be hard to study NDE's. You can't just kill a few participants and revive them a few minutes later. That would be a major research ethics violation. However, there have been a few articles that have attempted to study it, interviewing people after their experiences.

http://www.pentathon.talktalk.net/lancet.pdf

Scientists, of course, would like to explain the events in purely biological terms. However, some cases can be really hard to explain. One woman mentioned in the BBC documentary was in the middle of surgery when she became clinically dead. This was a unique case, as doctors had been observing her brain activity (I believe the surgery was on the brain), and they noted that her brain had completely shut down. There was no activity going on in the brain. Additionally, she had plugs in her ears, and her eyes were covered, yet she reported floating around the room hearing conversations and seeing things, including a drill she thought looked like an electric toothbrush. All of these things should be impossible.

I mention all of this as if I believe in NDE. I don't necessarily. Some of the things people report are inconsistent with my religious views, so I don't know if some of them are faking it while others are not, if some of them experience the events because of changes in brain activity while others have genuine experiences, or if the whole of NDE could be explained away. I am on the fence on this issue.

Evidently, there are also studies on Distressing Near-Death Experiences, which are kind of like what we'd expect for someone going to Hell. These are the minority of NDE, however.

 

[elman]

No "concrete" evidence (I am glad that we don't). But the idea is very common. Everyone has a soul and soul will not die. If you don't believe that, then you do not have to worry about your original question.

I believe we have a soul--our spiritual existence, but I don't believe it cannot die. It will die I think if you chose an unloving life style. Ezekiel 18 talks about our soul will die if we are wicked but if we turn from wickedness to righteousness we will live and not die. That ties into the idea that after you have killed your own soul with your own sin, if you repent and turn to righteousness, God will recreate you spiritually--spiritual rebirth.

 

[Ernst Junger]

I think the wicked will be dead for longer than a moment and the righteous will be alive longer than a moment.

How can time continue after the end of time?

 

[juvenissun]

How can time continue after the end of time?

Because at the end of "time" (as we know it), the "time" will be counted in a different way, which we are currently only speculate on it.

In other words, it is a different world. This is how.

 

[juvenissun]

I believe we have a soul--our spiritual existence, but I don't believe it cannot die. It will die I think if you chose an unloving life style. Ezekiel 18 talks about our soul will die if we are wicked but if we turn from wickedness to righteousness we will live and not die. That ties into the idea that after you have killed your own soul with your own sin, if you repent and turn to righteousness, God will recreate you spiritually--spiritual rebirth.

I like to talk to you on this specific issue. But it seems this is not the place to do that.

 

[elman]

How can time continue after the end of time?

We are not capable of understanding existence that is not subject to time, but even though I do not understand it--I believe we have a destiny of eternal life that comes after time ends as we know time. If you want to look at it as a never ending present moment, I think you get to the same bottom line.

 

[EmmaXO]

EmmaXO: IMHO this is not apathetic. This is giving you complete freedom to choose, and after you choose, it is not feeling bad that you made your choice. I would not prefer that you choose against Jesus. But if you willfully do so, you do.

Your view seems to want someone always to blame for bad choices. I think this is not right. When you make bad choices, you must pay for them. That is why you don't want to make the wrong choice.

I have sympathy for the beggar on the street. Thus, I often give to them. I have great sympathy for the suffering of others and often think they suffer because their faith is not complete. If a person lacks faith to resolve their issues, then it is their choice. If they made a choice, how can I pity them? I have to only say, "It is their choice. I would not choose that. But they did. And so it is right to have allowed them to do so."

The alternative is for me to say, "You have no freedom. I will choose for you. You may not choose anything bad for yourself." This is not freedom but slavery. The Bible says Christ came to set us free. I prefer freedom over everything else.





Why don't you go to this thread http://www.christianforums.com/t7620223/ and then you can see the proof of my belief?

I do not believe in Jesus just because someone said so. I believe because I keep seeing miracles.

Of course, you can insist that a miracle is not one and therefore not believe. Others have.

But you know the consequences of disbelief now, don't you?

So believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved!

If a kid gets burned from touching a stove don't you feel bad for them, even if it is there own fault? Not believing in Jesus isn't a bad choice. It's a choice you don't think is right. People who don't believe in Jesus aren't bad people who deserved to be punished for an eternity. They've made a different choice then you.

You practice Christianity for the same reasons people practice other religions: you think it is the truth. What makes Christianity different from other religions, who also say they have the truth? I'm not going to accept, "Because we do have the truth, everyone else is wrong." How can I know the bible is true and really is holy when other texts also claim they are holy? The bible says so isn't a good answer. The proof the bible is holy is in the bible, just like the proof the other texts are holy is in those texts.

I can't turn in an essay with no bibliography and tell my teacher, "the proof is all in the text." The only evidence for the bible is the bible so it's a circular argument. If I were on an Islamic forum we'd be having a very different conversation.

I'm not going to "accept Jesus" to stay out of hell.

 

[EmmaXO]

Why don't you go to this thread http://www.christianforums.com/t7620223/ and then you can see the proof of my belief?

I do not believe in Jesus just because someone said so. I believe because I keep seeing miracles.

Of course, you can insist that a miracle is not one and therefore not believe. Others have.

But you know the consequences of disbelief now, don't you?

So believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved!

I fail to see how speaking in tongues is evidence of Jesus. The woman had Dementia so that explains some of it. Does your son speak Chinese?

How English sounds to non-English speakers - YouTube

 

[EmmaXO]

Evidence for near-death experiences comes from secular sources, including an organization called the Near Death Experience Research Foundation (NDERF) and the International Association for Near-Death Studies (IANDS). There was an episode devoted to it on Dr. Oz, and a BBC documentary called "The Day I Died."

Obviously, it can be hard to study NDE's. You can't just kill a few participants and revive them a few minutes later. That would be a major research ethics violation. However, there have been a few articles that have attempted to study it, interviewing people after their experiences.

http://www.pentathon.talktalk.net/lancet.pdf

Scientists, of course, would like to explain the events in purely biological terms. However, some cases can be really hard to explain. One woman mentioned in the BBC documentary was in the middle of surgery when she became clinically dead. This was a unique case, as doctors had been observing her brain activity (I believe the surgery was on the brain), and they noted that her brain had completely shut down. There was no activity going on in the brain. Additionally, she had plugs in her ears, and her eyes were covered, yet she reported floating around the room hearing conversations and seeing things, including a drill she thought looked like an electric toothbrush. All of these things should be impossible.

I mention all of this as if I believe in NDE. I don't necessarily. Some of the things people report are inconsistent with my religious views, so I don't know if some of them are faking it while others are not, if some of them experience the events because of changes in brain activity while others have genuine experiences, or if the whole of NDE could be explained away. I am on the fence on this issue.

Evidently, there are also studies on Distressing Near-Death Experiences, which are kind of like what we'd expect for someone going to Hell. These are the minority of NDE, however.

Have you ever heard the phrase, "God of the Gaps"?

The Freethought Zone - God of the Gaps

 

[Jonathan95]

Have you ever heard the phrase, "God of the Gaps"?

The Freethought Zone - God of the Gaps

Emma, how do you explain people who get limbs grown back, raised from the dead, incurable diseases healed (incurable for man maybe) and rise up from wheelchairs.

I'm talking about Smith Wigglesworth (20th-century legendary evangelist), Prophet TB Joshua (present), etc.

 

[EmmaXO]

Emma, how do you explain people who get limbs grown back, raised from the dead, incurable diseases healed (incurable for man maybe) and rise up from wheelchairs.

I'm talking about Smith Wigglesworth (20th-century legendary evangelist), Prophet TB Joshua (present), etc.

I forgot you were there to witness those miracles and validate they actually happened. I think it's likely those people are lying their butts off.

I know an amputee. Pray for him to grow his limbs back and I'll see what happens.

Faith-healers are lying through their teeth.

God of the Gaps is about how when science can't explain something currently, people seems to think it's from God. That stuff you posted about is simply made up.

 

[Jonathan95]

I forgot you were there to witness those miracles and validate they actually happened. I think it's likely those people are lying their butts off.

I know an amputee. Pray for him to grow his limbs back and I'll see what happens.

Faith-healers are lying through their teeth.

God of the Gaps is about how when science can't explain something currently, people seems to think it's from God. That stuff you posted about is simply made up.

How about you read books about Smith Wigglesworth, and watch videos from SCOAN, (Prophet TB Joshua) where miracles happen.

 

[EmmaXO]

How about you read books about Smith Wigglesworth, and watch videos from SCOAN, (Prophet TB Joshua) where miracles happen.

Writing something doesn't make it true. Harry Potter isn't proof of Harry Potter. The Hunger Games isn't evidence of Katniss.

You did not witness those miracles. You did also not perform them. You have no way to verify their truth. Joshua is most likely lying and making the whole thing up.

The videos aren't evidence at all. I could watch a movie, but if I went to see the movie shot it would be very different. There would be green screens and cameras and the editing wouldn't have been done yet.

After watching some of the videos I am far less than convinced. How do I know this isn't all a setup and everyone is in on the joke?

Why don't you pray for the amputee like I said? I will get back to you.

Why does God only heal some people and not others?
If you say their faith isn't strong enough, how do you know the people in the video have strong enough faith?

 

[Jonathan95]

Writing something doesn't make it true. Harry Potter isn't proof of Harry Potter. The Hunger Games isn't evidence of Katniss.

You did not witness those miracles. You did also not perform them. You have no way to verify their truth. Joshua is most likely lying and making the whole thing up.

The videos aren't evidence at all. I could watch a movie, but if I went to see the movie shot it would be very different. There would be green screens and cameras and the editing wouldn't have been done yet.

After watching some of the videos I am far less than convinced. How do I know this isn't all a setup and everyone is in on the joke?

Why don't you pray for the amputee like I said? I will get back to you.

Why does God only heal some people and not others?
If you say their faith isn't strong enough, how do you know the people in the video have strong enough faith?

Sometimes there are things preventing such miracles. Not God's fault. Go to the meeting, and see people get healed then? Also, people have been healed by using the anointing water they have, one who was blind for example. It's not for sale though.

 

[EmmaXO]

Sometimes there are things preventing such miracles. Not God's fault. Go to the meeting, and see people get healed then? Also, people have been healed by using the anointing water they have, one who was blind for example. It's not for sale though.

Can you rephrase that? I'm not completely sure what you're saying.

 

[Jonathan95]

Can you rephrase that? I'm not completely sure what you're saying.

I said that you can go to SCOAN, and see people get healed then. Now, what about prophecies? How are they made, if there's no God? A woman prophesied that oil would flow in Norway, and that was like 60 years ago. TB Joshua have prophesied many things that have been fulfilled.

 

[EmmaXO]

I said that you can go to SCOAN, and see people get healed then. Now, what about prophecies? How are they made, if there's no God? A woman prophesied that oil would flow in Norway, and that was like 60 years ago. TB Joshua have prophesied many things that have been fulfilled.

If I go to SCOAN I won't see anything because those aren't miracles. Prophecies can be interpreted in any which way to support that they have prophesied what has happened. How many prophecies has TB Joshua gotten wrong?

Prophecies are not convincing - The Atheist Experience #630 - YouTube