The ice age and the flood

[Keachian]

Do you have a sin nature that you were born with?

(Just a YES or NO please.)

That's a bigger question than just yes or no, if you're asking me about whether I believe in the extrabiblical doctrine of original sin, then no, if you are talking about all humanity's propensity to sin then yes

 

[AV1611VET]

That's a bigger question than just yes or no, if you're asking me about whether I believe in the extrabiblical doctrine of original sin, then no, if you are talking about all humanity's propensity to sin then yes

Let's word it this way -- (then I'll say your point can take a hike):

Are you a sinner because you sin, or do you sin because you're a sinner?

Allegorists react [maturely] to this question in one of two ways: they either don't know what I'm asking, or they believe they are sinners because they sin.

What say you?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

So does my question.

Your question remains true?? That is another meaningless statement.

 

[Keachian]

Let's word it this way -- (then I'll say your point can take a hike):

Are you a sinner because you sin, or do you sin because you're a sinner?

Allegorists react [maturely] to this question in one of two ways: they either don't know what I'm asking, or they believe they are sinners because they sin.

What say you?

I sin because I am human, take from that what you will

 

[Keachian]

I'm not sure how this relates to my point could you tell me that?

 

[AV1611VET]

I sin because I am human, take from that what you will

Fair enough -- your point can take a hike then.

 

[Keachian]

Fair enough -- your point can take a hike then.

Your question isn't related to my observation so kindly do likewise

 

[AV1611VET]

Only religious people react (maturely) to a religious question others only ever react sympathetically.

Thus:- Why does this religious person think for one minute that I am interested in their ramblings about mythical deities and fears of the supernatural? I'll humour them because I think it's the kindest thing to do after all they were not born like it they were brainwashed into believing it.
That I can assure you is the reaction of nonbelievers to believers, it's basically one of pity tinged with incredulity.

Luke 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

It's nice to think you don't need a physician [The Physician] and sit on your sanctimonious high-hill and rail on those who admit we're born sick, isn't it?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Luke 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

It's nice to think you don't need a physician [The Physician] and sit on your sanctimonious high-hill and rail on those who admit we're born sick, isn't it?

As you like quotes so much:

Even the most humane and compassionate of the monotheisms and polytheisms are complicit in this quiet and irrational authoritarianism: they proclaim us, in Fulke Greville's unforgettable line, "Created sick — Commanded to be well." And there are totalitarian insinuations to back this up if its appeal should fail.

• Christopher Hitchens, Letter to a Young Contrarian (2001).

 

[SkyWriting]

No one has a sin nature, that's just something used to put fear into children and vulnerable people.

Before a religion can save you it needs to invent something to save you from, sin in an invention of religion.

That's a fine theory. All good theories need some base facts though.

For example, children don't get taught "fear". I've never seen it anyway.
And "vulnerable" people don't learn about sin nature. At least they don't claim that they are taught it. They claim that they LIVE their sin nature until they seek something better. THEY say that what they learn about God is after seeking God out. Not before.

If you go to rescue missions you will see and hear the same story from both sides. God is ignored until they choose to listen.

There is nothing wrong with your theory on sin. It just doesn't match up with what one finds when they look into it.

 

[SkyWriting]

Why do only Christians believe in sin? Atheists do not recognize sin.Why are babies born with sin? what's the need for that? there needs to be something that Christianity can save people from and sin fit's the bill, Jesus died for our sins, sin is pumped into children before they do anything else, I am a sinner, you are a sinner we are all sinners and we all need saving from sin and ONLY God can do that, believe or die it's your choice, what child would not sit up and listen to that? it has worked since religions first began and it will continue to work providing you can get to children before they start to think for themselves, if you don't there is every chance that the brainwashing won't work and they are lost to religion, not lost just lost to religion.

Your being very reasonable and thoughtful. I'm asking you to be scientific.
Show us the data that supports your theory. We'll be glad to look it over and see if your data supports your theory.

 

[SkyWriting]

How can I be scientific when I am talking about a mythical God? How can I show you data on something that doesn't exist?

You go to church so you know that all they ever talk about is how sinful everyone is and how much they need God to take away that sin, without sin there would be no reason for a Christian God, there would be no money coming in and they would need to sell some of the cars and houses, for them sin is what it's all about, it keeps them in business and people afraid.

That's an interesting theory. Where is your data to back up your theory about what goes on inside churches?
I've been to scores of different denominations of churches. If I recorded every sermon, I doubt you'd have much solid material to back your theory. You have failed to provide any sources for your theory. Sin is not the popular subject you imagine it to be.

 

[cupid dave]

Jesus explained how He fulfilled the psalms and prophets..etc. So, I will take the bible as His word, and Jesus as the living word, the fulfillment of the words He gave to man. That makes the whole thing important and not to be trifled with.

I think christians have errored insaying that the word means the bible.

The word jesus was referring to was Truth. '

The reason they got confused was that Jesus had also said he fulfilled the prophecy of his return as found in the Old Testament when he said:

Luke 22:37
For I tell you that this Scripture must yet be fulfilled in Me:
for what is written about Me has its fulfillment [has reached its end and is finally settled].
http://www.christianforums.com/passage/?search=Luke+22:36-38&version=AMP

 

[dad]

I think christians have errored insaying that the word means the bible.

The word jesus was referring to was Truth. '

The reason they got confused was that Jesus had also said he fulfilled the prophecy of his return as found in the Old Testament when he said:

Luke 22:37
For I tell you that this Scripture must yet be fulfilled in Me:
for what is written about Me has its fulfillment [has reached its end and is finally settled].

OK, so there ya go. The bible is important, and wuite connected to and supported by Christ, and not to be taken lightly. When Jesus confirmed the flood and creation, that is absolute.

 

[dad]

As you like quotes so much:

• Christopher Hitchens, Letter to a Young Contrarian (2001).

Man was not created sick though. Sin led to all of that. And the One who came to deliver us from sin gives eternal life with no more sickness.

 

[dad]

As He is supposed to be the one that created the universe that science describes, yes, I'd say this was news.

The universe science describes did not exist and I doubt does exist! No more than the travels of Dr Who or Buzz Lightyear. Stars exist, yes. The stellar evolution and all the universe sailing out of a speck that would fit in your nose, and etc etc are all religion.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

The universe science describes did not exist and I doubt does exist! No more than the travels of Dr Who or Buzz Lightyear. Stars exist, yes. The stellar evolution and all the universe sailing out of a speck that would fit in your nose, and etc etc are all religion.

It's quite a quandary when the universe science describes doesn't fit with your preconceived fantasy. I suppose if you insist on sticking with the fantasy you are left with little option but rejecting reality. This does, however, mean that your opinion becomes irrelevant.

 

[dad]

And I'm the one being asked to get a grip?

Someone has been telling you lies dad, but I suppose they're the kind of lies you want to hear so they're not lies.

Don't cast aspersions on the witnesses of the Resurrection. You have no ability to comment on eternal life one way of the other. To call it a lie is showing an attitude. Nothing more.

Obviously the body model our spirit now drives will get junked unless nature gets interfered with or changed. But to be absent here, is to be present in heaven with Jesus for believers. So we literally will never die. You too could be someone that accepts His gift.

You must feel sad for all the other religions who do not believe as you do? because unlike you they are all going to die,
then again you wouldn't be a very good Christian if you didn't have at least some sympathy for them would you?

Not all things are equal, no. The truth has many counterfeits. But a seeking heart God will guide in the right way.

God so loved the world that he allowed his message to become so garbled that more than two out of three of his loved ones were condemned to hell and damnation, it's not the first time the great creator has cocked things up is it?

Once we know Him, that sort of fear vanishes.

 

[dad]

It's quite a quandary when the universe science describes doesn't fit with your preconceived fantasy. I suppose if you insist on sticking with the fantasy you are left with little option but rejecting reality. This does, however, mean that your opinion becomes irrelevant.

The reality of what laws and dimensions exist outside you range is not something known.

Funny you guys can't even defend the ice age fable here, forget the wild blue yonder.

 

[dad]

Let's look at what Jesus said about the Flood, why not? His words were:
"For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."
If this is the case then surely the time before the flood was the same as that of Jesus and even the future.

Yes eating and drinking and sex is possible without our present nature. This is news? In fact men had many centuries of life to do all that.

I can give you a biblical case for why they aren't literal, though I have already you've dismissed them because they don't fit in with your preconceived theology.

If your case were strong, we could take a look at it. However, if it was a fail, then we must deal with that.