Considering going home to Rome.

[aussieoldcatholic]

hi everyone I'm an Old Catholic (independent Catholic) I was bought up in the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church until I left over the homosexuality issue (Im gay and proud of the fact, and I have no desire to change....so plz those who disagree with homosexuality plz dont lecturer me, cause I don't care what your views are!)

Ive been abit 'homesick' for the Catholic Church for the last year now and I feel that despite the church not being as tolerant as it should I should return to our mother; the church.

how does one go about being received back into the church???....I never officially left and I didn't make any sort of profession of faith to the Old Catholics

 

[Kenan]

hi everyone I'm an Old Catholic (independent Catholic) I was bought up in the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church until I left over the homosexuality issue (Im gay and proud of the fact, and I have no desire to change....so plz those who disagree with homosexuality plz dont lecturer me, cause I don't care what your views are!)

Ive been abit 'homesick' for the Catholic Church for the last year now and I feel that despite the church not being as tolerant as it should I should return to our mother; the church.

how does one go about being received back into the church???....I never officially left and I didn't make any sort of profession of faith to the Old Catholics

If you received the sacraments of Baptism, and the Holy Eucharist than you can just go and receive the sacrament of Reconcilliation.

Only if you are ready to leave the sin. Meaning you don't want to sin, you avoid proximate occasions to sin and you are trully sorry for the sins you have committed against God are you going to be forgiven, accepted back and a State of Grace will be restored.

If you don't have a sorrow for your sins and don't have intention to avoid sins in the future it would be a sacrligious confession, another mortal sin.

Help regarding the sacrament of Reconcilliation go here.
Prof. Caspar E. Schieler, D.D.-Theory and Practice of the Confessional.
Theory and practice of the confessional (Open Library)

There is no such a thing as independent Catholic. You are either with Jesus or against Him.

Luke 11:23 He that is not with me, is against me; and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth.

If you don't agree with the Church teachings on Human Sexuality,

Jesus said:

Luke 10:16 He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.

There is a subjective way of thinking which puts itself above God and the Church teachings and is the result of the sin of pride. Pride fuels all other sins and is the result of one of the greates Heresies that the Church faces today, namely Modernism or Liberalism.

Liberalism is a Sin. Adapted From The Spanish of Dr. Don Felix Sarda Y Salvany, by Conde B. Pallen, Ph.D., LL.D. Dr. Don Felix Sarda Y Salvany

 

[aussieoldcatholic]

um their are Independent catholics....the old catholic communion is fully recognized by the Rome as having valid sacraments and Apostolic succession.

and if your are referring to be being sorry for homosexuality....the Answer is no. Im quite happily partnered and do not believe homosexuality is a sin on any level.

 

[Aussigirl]

um their are Independent catholics....the old catholic communion is fully recognized by the Rome as having valid sacraments and Apostolic succession.

and if your are referring to be being sorry for homosexuality....the Answer is no. Im quite happily partnered and do not believe homosexuality is a sin on any level.

If that is the case then there is a problem. Having the inclination to homosexuality is not sinful, but actively practicing it is sinful. Your belief that homosexuality is a not a sin is incorrect.

St. Paul is quite specific about this point when he says that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9)

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality will inherit the kingdom of God".

If you are not going to give up the sin, then receiving the sacraments would be a mortal sin, as the previous writers have indicated.

 

[KevinKuck]

I think you should give it a shot, and there are many, many, many Catholic parishes for whom your homosexuality will not be an issue and where you being partnered will not be an issue. I'd just suggest looking for a parish that you like and then dialoguing with the priest there.

 

[Needing_Grace]

Let me preface this by saying that I am a Catholic who has the gayness. I won't apologize for it because I didn't have anything to do with getting the gayness. I just have it and have to live with it best I can. I agree 100% with the teaching of the Church on this issue as laid out in the Catechism.

If that is the case then there is a problem. Having the inclination to homosexuality is not sinful, but actively practicing it is sinful. Your belief that homosexuality is a not a sin is incorrect.

Just please be sure that you notice the contradiction here?

Yes, there is a problem. Homosexual sex is sinful, but having the gayness is NOT sinful. Homosexuality is not sinful. Homosexual sex is. Please remember the distinction.

St. Paul is quite specific about this point when he says that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9)

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality will inherit the kingdom of God".

*Sigh* Relying on translations of a word that still puzzles Greek scholars to exhort someone. Weak sauce. You want accuracy and completeness...go with the CCC, not a poorly translated verse from St. Paul's letters.

First, there are two words with distinct meanings where the translator simply placed their theological opinion, "men who practice homosexuality" instead of trying translate malakoi and arsenokoitai correctly. At least we have the fall back to two translations which were made before the word "homosexual" was invented in the 19th century.

1 Cor. 6:9-10 Douay-Rheims
9Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, 10Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.

(Yeah, Catholics being Catholics had to move that verse number back a few words just to be different. lol)

1 Cor. 6:9-10 KJV

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

(I used the same verses just to make sure we're on the same page here).

Since both of these versions were written without the notion of the word homosexual, they had actually translate the words that were there. It's not dudes who like dudes, or what we call homosexual persons today, who are condemned here. They're not even mentioned as it's not even something St. Paul would have considered when writing this. What is being condemned is the act.

Which leaves the question of where does "effeminate" fit in. It's used in both ancient English translations of the New Testament. Does it mean that a guy who is a little prissy here and there is going to burn for it? Does it mean that unless you're is a total machista, it's crispy critters for you? That doesn't make sense. Everything in that vice list are acts that one commits.

"Effeminate" would also have to be more than just being a dude who likes dudes or being a dude without an affinity for anything having to do with men running around chasing after one sort of ball or another. I've seen where the word catamite would apply. A catamite, according to wikipedia, was " a handsome youth kept as a sexual companion in ancient Rome, usually in a pederastic relationship. " Um...that's pretty gross and would fit much better with everything else mentioned in the list.

BTW, I'm the least gay-acting dude with the gayness EVER and I loathe most sports as a waste of time and energy (unless the Angels are in the playoffs...I'm an Orange County boy through and through. lol).

What I'm saying here is we should be as accurate as possible when discussing this subject.

The CHURCH has very carefully crafted three paragraphs in her official Catechism on the topic. Let's use that as our launching point. We're Catholics trying to bring a Catholic home to Rome, right?

If you are not going to give up the sin, then receiving the sacraments would be a mortal sin, as the previous writers have indicated.

This holds true for any sin.

I would go and talk to a priest, my brother, about this and get his advice/counsel. Don't be afraid to talk to several priests. Also, take the time to check out the Catechism on this topic. Click here to read it online.

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

1 Cor. 6:9-10 Douay-Rheims
9Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, 10Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.

The "covetous?" Rly? Drunks, people who are jealous and guys who have sex with guys, anyone having sex outside of marriage - effeminate... cross-dressers? "Railers/revilers?"

Good thing all things are possible with God.

 

[Sonny1954]

Perhaps I'm not qualified to respond because I'm not Gay.

The more issue in my mind is that you never renounced your membership in
the Catholic Church and you never formally joined the Old Catholic Church.
Thereofor you ARE still a member of the RCC. Even by the Catholic Church's own records. Unless a baptized Catholic actually renounces his Church membership, that person is still counted as part of the population, which is probably one reason why the Church counts over a billion members.

Short answer, you've never left the Roman Catholic Church, so you're still a member. Why not go to an RC mass and by conscious of what you are thinking and feeling while you're there?

 

[ranpleasant]

I think you should give it a shot, and there are many, many, many Catholic parishes for whom your homosexuality will not be an issue and where you being partnered will not be an issue. I'd just suggest looking for a parish that you like and then dialoguing with the priest there.

Even if a priest allows it, it is without any doubts dishonest and an insult to God and the Holy Catholic Church for active and unrepentant homosexuals to attend Mass and receive the holy sacraments. If a person wishes to be Catholic and attend the Catholic Church then they should accept the teachings of the Catholic Church received from God, repent their sins in confession, and try their best to not sin.

If the person who started this thread is not willing to accept God by fullying accepting all of the teachings of God, repending their sins against God, and attempting to live accourding to the teachings of God, and accepting the authority of the Holy Catholic Church, then one has to wonder about their motive in wanting to join the Holy Catholic Church.

Ran

 

[Sonny1954]

Aussieoldcatholic:

Have you heard of or been in contact with the group called Dignity? They are a group of practicing gay Catholics. Perhaps someone there
could help give you some guidance?

Best,

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

If the person who started this thread is not willing to accept God by fullying accepting all of the teachings of God, repending their sins against God, and attempting to live accourding to the teachings of God, and accepting the authority of the Holy Catholic Church, then one has to wonder about their motive in wanting to join the Holy Catholic Church.

Ran

Jesus ate with sinners. If He didn't, neither you nor I would have a hope of heaven. The OP needs to come Home. To be with his Church family. To be with Jesus. Then he can work out what he needs to with Jesus. Jesus didn't turn away anyone who wanted to be with Him. And everyone who wants to be with Him is a sinner.

 

[Sonny1954]

Good point, FranciscanSpirit. One thing that Jesus never was, was self-righteous (and if anybody ever had the right to be....) Remember, WE are the Church. And the greatest among us, the ordained officials, serve the rest.

 

[ranpleasant]

Jesus ate with sinners. If He didn't, neither you nor I would have a hope of heaven. The OP needs to come Home. To be with his Church family. To be with Jesus. Then he can work out what he needs to with Jesus. Jesus didn't turn away anyone who wanted to be with Him. And everyone who wants to be with Him is a sinner.

Jesus did indeed accept sinners but at no point did Jesus ever accept sin. Jesus ate with sinners in order to teach them so that they would move away from sin. Our views do not matter, what matters is the view of God and His holy Catholic Church. And God's teachings on homosexuality, held and expressed by the Holy Catholic Church for 2,000 years is very clear: Being homosexuality is not a sin. Like all sinners homosexuals are welcome in the church. But actively engaging in homosexual sex is a mortal sin. Actively engaging in mortal sin of any type and being totally un-repentant of those sins is an insult to God and His holy Church, and disqualifies a person from attending Mass and receiving the Holy Sacraments.

It is out of love that we should ask this person to move away from sin.

Ran

 

[ranpleasant]

Remember, WE are the Church.

Totally and absolutely wrong!

The Holy Catholic Church is the bride of Jesus Christ, guarded by the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church is an entity in and of itself, apart from any person inside or outside of the Church. No Pope or any group of people has ever been "the church". Even Saint Peter was never "the church". That is why the Catholic Chruch survide a number of extremely sinful Popes! As members of the Catholic Church we are the children of Jesus Christ and as His children we are to follow ALL of His teachings, not our own sinful desires.

Ran

 

[KevinKuck]

Diginity is a good group. My mother used to go to the Denver Dignity group every week for many years with my brother. And I just want to add something in here...it's always great to question authority. Jesus himself is constantly questioning the religious authorities of his own day (the Pharisees, Herodians, and Sadducees as well) and has given us a beautiful paradigm for taking up his mantle against those who would turn religious authority into an idol of worship. That being said, I am excited that you are on this journey to "come home."

 

[ranpleasant]

Jesus himself is constantly questioning the religious authorities of his own day (the Pharisees, Herodians, and Sadducees as well)...

Respectfully,

This is absolutely wrong. Jesus was very clear that He did not come to abolish the Jewish Law, rather He came to fulfill the Law. Jesus was a faithful Jew. Jesus never once "questioned" the faith.

Think about it. First the Jewish faith and later the Christian faith were creations of God. Jesus is God. So why would Jesus question what He created? Makes no sense.

Ran

 

[Jase]

Just curious, seeing as this is the Liberal Catholic forum. Do Liberal Catholics generally support gays like we do over at Whosoever Will May Come?

I know the RCC itself is opposed to it, but even looking at polls of American Catholics, the majority support gay rights/marriage and do not consider homosexuality a sin.

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

Respectfully,

This is absolutely wrong. Jesus was very clear that He did not come to abolish the Jewish Law, rather He came to fulfill the Law. Jesus was a faithful Jew. Jesus never once "questioned" the faith.

Ran

Jesus did not say what "Law" He came to fulfill. He did warn His disciples against "the leaven of the Pharisees" and tell them they had stolen the keys to the kingdom, would not let anyone else enter and did not enter themselves. This is similar to being a "nest of vipers."

God gave Moses some commandments. Humans added a whole lotta other stuff. So God didn't "make" all the religion, either of the Hebrews or of the Christians.

Jesus also said the law would always be with us. He did not say that was a good thing.

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

Just curious, seeing as this is the Liberal Catholic forum. Do Liberal Catholics generally support gays like we do over at Whosoever Will May Come?

I know the RCC itself is opposed to it, but even looking at polls of American Catholics, the majority support gay rights/marriage and do not consider homosexuality a sin.

This is the teaching of the Church on the topic:

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

We should all be trying to "approach Christian perfection."

I wonder how many of us take that seriously?

Everyone who calls themselves a "Traditional Catholic" who is totally in line with the Magesterium should be speaking of, to, and treating all, gay persons with respect and love.

This is the teaching of Christ.

 

[Kenan]

Jesus ate with sinners. If He didn't, neither you nor I would have a hope of heaven. The OP needs to come Home. To be with his Church family. To be with Jesus. Then he can work out what he needs to with Jesus. Jesus didn't turn away anyone who wanted to be with Him. And everyone who wants to be with Him is a sinner.

Jesus didn't eat with sinners. He did eat with repentant sinners and those He wanted to turn away from sin.

He didn't eat with them to approve of their sins.

Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26-27, Timothy 8-10

St. Jerome explains,
JEROME; For they do not come to Jesus while they remain in their original condition of sin, as the Pharisees and Scribes complain, but in penitence, as what follows proves; But Jesus hearing said, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

and St. Augustine explains it even better,
Luke adds to repentance, which explains the sense; that none should suppose that sinners are loved by Christ because they are sinners; and this comparison of the sick shows what God means by calling sinners, as a physician does the sick to be saved from their iniquity as from a sickness: which is done by penitence.