New Bible Yanks 'father,' Jesus As 'son Of God'

[Henaynei]

In Yeshua, however, there is no need to be concerned with our perfection under the law. We are free to flub up and make mistakes. Yeshua did that for us. Does that mean we can live like rebellious sots?...No. We continue to try to be obedient because that honors G-d and Yeshua's sacrifice.

We Messianics are FREE to obey Torah. All who have honestly sought show our love and honor to HaShem by earnestly and with kavanah trying to obey His Instruction on what a life devoted to Him looks like (aka Torah) have never been able to keep it perfectly and needed Grace to cover our failures.
But having the Goal Sacrifice made for us does not mean we can become lazy about His Instructions or our responsibility to them.

Messianics are Christians.

Most Messianics in my 25 years experience do not consider themselves Christians.
We define Christian as a brother and fellow follower and servant of Messiah who choose to do so within the Western/Greek/Hellenistic paradigm. Messianics usually do not follow any of the Western/Greek/Hellenistic paradigm but rather a totally Jewish one based on Torah and the example of the early believers who were all Jewish.
NO ONE was called Christian until the Gentile believers at Antioch. No where in scripture is Christian applied to Jewish believers.

What Messianics aren't and can never be are Jews obsessed with keeping the law to the point of dishonoring and diminishing G-d's gift of His Son, Yeshua HaMessiach.

Please define your usage of:
"obsessed with keeping the Law" and how obeying Torah can cause ... "dishonoring and diminishing G-d's gift of His Son, Yeshua HaMashiakh"

 

[Jerushabelle]

Oh and I was laughing at myself. Eternal damnation isn't funny but hey, you are the one who believes it, not me.

Then why are you here?

 

[Henaynei]

Maybe I would be surprised .......

You're kidding, right?.

Something else that would surprise you... Yeshua was a P'rush aka Pharisee. And many, if not most, of His followers were also of the Pharisaic sect.

 

[xDenax]

Excuse me, I follow the ways of the First Century Christians who were Messianic; believers in Jesus/Yeshua HaMessiach. I do not dismiss the Torah. In Yeshua I am free to be obedient to it; I'm not shackled to it. I observe the Sabbath and the Lord's Day.

Is there a reason you don't use the icon? Maybe that is why Lulav stated you weren't Messianic. I just thought you were, I hadn't paid attention to the icon.

 

[xDenax]

Then why are you here?

I'm confused by this question. I should only be here because I believe in eternal damnation?

 

[Henaynei]

Then why are you here?

That is something I could ask you since you are not Messianic and seem more interested about telling us how we should believe, serve HaShem and how we are dishonoring Him, rather than earnestly learning about us, what we believe and why.

I could be mistaken in this, but given your icon and the content of many of your posts I admit I'm confused on the point.

 

[Jerushabelle]

We Messianics are FREE to obey Torah. All who have honestly sought show our love and honor to HaShem by earnestly and with kavanah trying to obey His Instruction on what a life devoted to Him looks like (aka Torah) have never been able to keep it perfectly and needed Grace to cover our failures.
But having the Goal Sacrifice made for us does not mean we can become lazy about His Instructions or our responsibility to them.

Well Amen and Amen! And if we accept the "goal sacrifice" as you call Him, then we accept His words and the words of His disciples whom He taught and then sent out to the world to teach us.

Most Messianics in my 25 years experience do not consider themselves Christians.

Then, respectfully, Sister Henaynei, those Messianics were wrong.

We define Christian as a brother and fellow follower and servant of Messiah who choose to do so within the Western/Greek/Hellenistic paradigm. Messianics usually do not follow any of the Western/Greek/Hellenistic paradigm but rather a totally Jewish one based on Torah and the example of the early believers who were all Jewish.

One God, One Messiah, One Body. That is the truth regardless of man's definitions.

NO ONE was called Christian until the Gentile believers at Antioch. No where in scripture is Christian applied to Jewish believers.

"Christianos"--belonging to Christ, belonging to Messiach. What's the hangup with that?
BTW, this is from the SoP here at CF.
"Messianic Believers are part of the larger Body of Messiah (Christians) and linked thru tradition and celebration to the Jewish culture world wide."
We are linked to Judaism but it is not that Judaism that is our salvation. It is the fact that we are Christianos that is our salvation.

Please define your usage of:
"obsessed with keeping the Law" and how obeying Torah can cause ... "dishonoring and diminishing G-d's gift of His Son, Yeshua HaMashiakh"

Keeping the Law is no longer mandatory for us to be reconciled to God. Our reconciliation to God was made possible for us through Yeshua. When we go back to the Law for that reconciliation, we are dishonoring of God and throwing the gift of His Son back in His face. If we are obedient to God's Law for the purpose of honoring Him, there is nothing wrong in that but as soon as we start telling people that God's law must be obeyed, then we've stepped over the line. And moreso, if we tell people that what Yeshua has declared to be no more is still in force, what are we then saying about Messiach?... that we can't trust what He says through Scripture.

 

[Jerushabelle]

I'm confused by this question. I should only be here because I believe in eternal damnation?

I was told that the non-Messianic Jews that post here do so for one of two reasons and I accepted this: because they desire to learn about Yeshua HaMessiach to become Messianic or their commentary, as relates to Messianism, is valuable. If you do not believe or want to believe in Yeshua nor do you believe in the possibility of reconciliation to God for the purpose of everlasting life (the opposite of eternal damnation) with HIM, why are you here?

 

[Jerushabelle]

That is something I could ask you since you are not Messianic and seem more interested about telling us how we should believe, serve HaShem and how we are dishonoring Him, rather than earnestly learning about us, what we believe and why.

I could be mistaken in this, but given your icon and the content of many of your posts I admit I'm confused on the point.

Do you think my icon makes me less Messianic?
Why do I need to earnestly learn about what I already am?

 

[xDenax]

I was told that the non-Messianic Jews that post here do so for one of two reasons and I accepted this: because they desire to learn about Yeshua HaMessiach to become Messianic or their commentary, as relates to Messianism, is valuable.

So essentially you are stating my commentary isn't valuable. Well gee, thanks.

 

[someguy14]

Psalm 25 is like a fresh drink of cold water for the soul. God alone be glorified, our Father, our guide.

 

[Lulav]

Do you think my icon makes me less Messianic?
Why do I need to earnestly learn about what I already am?

Well when someone makes a statement like this they don't sound Messianic.

We are free to flub up and make mistakes.

Your icon supports your theology. You believe that the Torah was nailed to the cross. We (MJ's) believe that it wasn't that is why our icon is a Torah scroll. There's no cross on it to show it was done away with.

 

[yonah_mishael]

It tells that even when the text was translated, these words or quotations were kept in their original languages for a reason. For example, no matter what language the NT is translated into, keeping the Aramaic words of Yahusha from the cross show why people thought he was calling for Elijah.

The main reason that scholars thought that Hebrew was not used for the NT is that they thought it had almost died out by that time. The dead sea scrolls have disproven that fallacy. Even the early church leaders wrote of Hebrew versions of the gospels. See the following about Hebrew word plays in the NT: http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/docs/49_aramaic_nt.pdf

No, they think it was written in Greek because it was written in Greek. That's just how it is. The NT letters were written for people who did not live in Israel. The fact that the Septuagint is quoted so much in them indicates that they were not translational. The level of Greek used in Luke, Acts, Hebrews and the Pauline corpus is enough to prove that this was not someone translating from one language to another. The only part of the NT that has ANY support for being written in Hebrew/Aramaic originally is the Gospel of Matthew - that's it. And even there the tradition says that Matthew wrote "the oracles of the Lord in Hebrew/Aramaic and each one translated them as best he could." It doesn't say that Matthew wrote a Gospel himself but that he wrote down a bunch of sayings of Jesus. These may have been included in the Synoptic Gospels, but there's no reason at all to think that Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew/Aramaic, and there's certainly less reason to think that any part of the rest of the NT was written in one of these languages.

 

[yonah_mishael]

God's word is my view. What does God's word say and how could man's word ever measure up to God's? My God is your God; the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I choose to believe in Yeshua HaMessiach. That's the only difference between you and me. If any Jew is going to cling to Judaism and reject Yeshua as Messiach, Orthodox Judaism (as Orthodox as one can get without looking to man to explain what God has made clear) will be the only way to God.

Believe me - your belief in Jesus is just the beginning of our differences, no offense.

 

[mfaust]

No, they think it was written in Greek because it was written in Greek. That's just how it is. The NT letters were written for people who did not live in Israel. The fact that the Septuagint is quoted so much in them indicates that they were not translational. The level of Greek used in Luke, Acts, Hebrews and the Pauline corpus is enough to prove that this was not someone translating from one language to another. The only part of the NT that has ANY support for being written in Hebrew/Aramaic originally is the Gospel of Matthew - that's it. And even there the tradition says that Matthew wrote "the oracles of the Lord in Hebrew/Aramaic and each one translated them as best he could." It doesn't say that Matthew wrote a Gospel himself but that he wrote down a bunch of sayings of Jesus. These may have been included in the Synoptic Gospels, but there's no reason at all to think that Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew/Aramaic, and there's certainly less reason to think that any part of the rest of the NT was written in one of these languages.

I actually agree with this and really enjoy the Majority Text (Byzantine) myself. However in my opinion the Peshitta Aramaic text is better for my own use. To me, it feels and sounds better... and I was even raised with the Greek. I just prefer the Aramaic. Even IF they are not the oldest/originals, it is a very good version that is very close to the Byzantine and I feel is just as good to use as is the Greek. I am not being dogmatic on this and which is why I am emphatic that it is my opinion.

 

[yedida]

Yep. I'm not thrilled with it, would much sooner have it be Aramaic or Hebrew, but I do believe that the NT was in Greek originally. But then again, God gave all languages and each has its place in the world. And that's what we have. Greek Apostolic Writings.

 

[pat34lee]

So, we have YHWH giving inspiration for Jews (One of whom was a Pharisee) to write about the Messiah primarily in Greek at a time when most Jews believed it was better to eat swine than to speak Greek, and considered Josephus a traitor for working with the Greeks? Makes no sense to me.

 

[someguy14]

Oh ye outcasts and troden down, rejoice and humble yourselves, for it is The Lord alone that brings you into His marvelous glory.

 

[Jerushabelle]

Well when someone makes a statement like this they don't sound Messianic.

Well, I'm not Jewish, that could be the reason. There are many faces to Messianism Sister. The blood of Jesus/Yeshua covers me when I make mistakes and flub up and that is most definitely a Messianic belief.

Your icon supports your theology. You believe that the Torah was nailed to the cross. We (MJ's) believe that it wasn't that is why our icon is a Torah scroll. There's no cross on it to show it was done away with.

No, I believe Yeshua was nailed to the cross. And please cease not including me in Messianism simply because I bear the cross of Yeshua icon. I do not dismiss Torah. I only dismiss what God and His Son has told me in Scripture that I can.

 

[Jerushabelle]

Is there a reason you don't use the icon? Maybe that is why Lulav stated you weren't Messianic. I just thought you were, I hadn't paid attention to the icon.

Because I choose to uphold what Yeshua did for me as a constant reminder.