Was the Reformation an Experiment gone wrong?

[Pfaffenhofen]

Rest easy. No one suggested such a thing.



As a right. We also defend YOUR right to read the Bible. Do you think you should not?



Of course there are dogmas in the Protestant churches, but none that are based upon so-called Sacred Tradition.

Rest easy. No one suggested such a thing.

Which thing: to have or not to have Tradition?

As a right. We also defend YOUR right to read the Bible. Do you think you should not?

You forgot the word "interpretation".

there are dogmas in the Protestant churches, but none that are based upon so-called Sacred Tradition.

Based on what?

 

[WinBySurrender]

That was a low blow...
I never posted what you were doing. You never posed that in face of what we are saying. You never asked: "Should I preach to drug addicts and prostitutes?".
Now you make me say that I forbade you from preaching Jesus to people with addictions.
Comme on, that is no way of discussing.
Bad luck, I am doing the same as you !!

OK, so now that we got that our of our systems, let's back off and try again. I'm sorry if you felt that was a low blow, but imagine how I felt when you posted what appeared to be a derogatory remark about the ability of those to whom I minister to find "easy forgiveness," which is how I took it. Perhaps that was wrong of me as well. Please forgive me for responding the way I did.

I'm not sure this is going to change our views of the Reformation and the Catholic Church's response to it, but it can at least restore fellowship between to believers who acted in the flesh. God bless.

 

[Albion]

Which thing: to have or not to have Tradition?

Protestants don't determine doctrine by use of legend, myth, random opinion and all the rest that defines "Tradition." Don't worry about it happening.

You forgot the word "interpretation".

No, I didn't. That wasn't the issue I was addressing. I've addressed interpretation before, but in this case I was speaking to your idea that the laity should not read the Bible.

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

Protestants don't determine doctrine by use of legend, myth, random opinion and all the rest that defines "Tradition." Don't worry about it happening.


No, I didn't. That wasn't the issue I was addressing. I've addressed interpretation before, but in this case I was speaking to your idea that the laity should not read the Bible.

Don't worry about it happening.

The 95 thesis are Tradition.
Or the principles of the Church of England.

to your idea that the laity should not read the Bible.

You live in the XVI century !!!

 

[Albion]

The 95 thesis are Tradition.

No. They are a statement of principles.

Just because something is old doesn't make it "Tradition."

 

[Albion]

You live in the XVI century !!!

Better than living in the XIII century, isn't it?

Anyway, YOU are the one who's obsessed with the Protestant Reformation. I merely am here like Newt Gingrich to help you with the historical information you don't understand. LOL

Where's my 1.6 mill by the way?

 

[athenken]

No. They are a statement of principles.

Just because something is old doesn't make it "Tradition."

Exactly! If anything, they are more anti-tradition than anything else. They were specifically calling out things that were wrong with the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

No. They are a statement of principles.

Just because something is old doesn't make it "Tradition."

Nice juggler of words.
We do not have Tradition.
We have Statement of Principles.
As you...

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

Better than living in the XIII century, isn't it?

Anyway, YOU are the one who's obsessed with the Protestant Reformation. I merely am here like Newt Gingrich to help you with the historical information you don't understand. LOL

Where's my 1.6 mill by the way?

No, it is you.
Worried that Benedictus XVI forbade me to read the Bible !!! Are you kidding or is it sarcasm? Or you cannot leave the XVI century problems and think that I live in that century !

anyhow, not even then it was "forbidden" to read the Bible by a layman.

 

[Albion]

We do not have Tradition.
We have Statement of Principles.
As you...

No, your "Sacred Tradition" is a process of making up doctrine from custom and legend. The fact that some church may have a statement of beliefs that has been around for a long time is not Tradition. If you don't understand this by now, which of course you do not, then there is little more that can be done.

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

Exactly! If anything, they are more anti-tradition than anything else. They were specifically calling out things that were wrong with the Roman Catholic Church.

In 2000 years there were ALWAYS sins.
The face of Protestant complaining about Catholic sins makes me wonder: didnt they know Christians are sinners as the whole world? Didnt they know there was, there is and there will be ALWAYS corruption? Did not they realize that they created Churches which were not immune to corruption and sin and bad behavior?

 

[athenken]

In 2000 years there were ALWAYS sins.
The face of Protestant complaining about Catholic sins makes me wonder: didnt they know Christians are sinners as the whole world? Didnt they know there was, there is and there will be ALWAYS corruption? Did not they realize that they created Churches which were not immune to corruption and sin and bad behavior?

Of course, but what Martin Luther was speaking out against was false doctrine(teachings).

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

Of course, but what Martin Luther was speaking out against was false doctrine(teachings).

So, for some false doctrines told by some member he just bulldozered the Church?
Does Protestantism have false doctrines or are they immune to it? If they have, why criticized the others.?

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

No, your "Sacred Tradition" is a process of making up doctrine from custom and legend. The fact that some church may have a statement of beliefs that has been around for a long time is not Tradition. If you don't understand this by now, which of course you do not, then there is little more that can be done.

Yes, there is nothing that you can do for you have nothing to say. Protestant have their own Tradition, which is what distinguishes one Protestant Church from another. It is their dogma, their Tradition.
Funny how they were against Tradition and Each Church as eventually got their own Tradition, vg,
Protestant Tradition

 

[athenken]

So, for some false doctrines told by some member he just bulldozered the Church?
Does Protestantism have false doctrines or are they immune to it? If they have, why criticized the others.?

No church is completely immune to false, or at the very least ill advised, doctrine. To think otherwise would be completely naive. Which is why we are called to be diligent in watching out for false teachers, and those who would lead us astray. This is exactly what Martin Luther was doing when he posted his document on the door of the church. He was calling the church out for all of the false doctrines being taught at that time, which were many and grievous.

 

[Albion]

Yes, there is nothing that you can do for you have nothing to say. Protestant have their own Tradition, which is what distinguishes one Protestant Church from another. It is their dogma, their Tradition.

Sola Scriptura.

 

[lismore]

Was the Reformation an Experiment gone wrong?

The Reformation in Scotland started when Cardinal Beaton had George Wishart burned at the stake for preaching the gospel in Dundee.

The Reformation -at last the light of the gospel could shine through the darkness.

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

No church is completely immune to false, or at the very least ill advised, doctrine. To think otherwise would be completely naive. Which is why we are called to be diligent in watching out for false teachers, and those who would lead us astray. This is exactly what Martin Luther was doing when he posted his document on the door of the church. He was calling the church out for all of the false doctrines being taught at that time, which were many and grievous.

No.
He did not call the Church out. If so, he would have stayed.
I called himself out (that is why there are LUTHERans).
But Lutherans as as corrupt as Catholics. We are all humans and sinners.
So, what the buzz? What the need to leave an corrupt Church for another Corrupt Church? For it is not because you SAY that the other Church is corrupt that you are going to create an non-sinful Church.
Talking is easy.
So what?

 

[Incariol]

The Reformation in Scotland started when Cardinal Beaton had George Wishart burned at the stake for preaching the gospel in Dundee.

The Reformation -at last the light of the gospel could shine through the darkness.

Too bad that wasn't what happened. All the Reformation did was damage Christianity in the West by splintering it into tiny pieces and instigating a great deal of political conflict.

 

[athenken]

No.
He did not call the Church out. If so, he would have stayed.
I called himself out (that is why there are LUTHERans).
But Lutherans as as corrupt as Catholics. We are all humans and sinners.
So, what the buzz? What the need to leave an corrupt Church for another Corrupt Church? For it is not because you SAY that the other Church is corrupt that you are going to create an non-sinful Church.
Talking is easy.
So what?

Wow, you are all over the place, aren't you?

What I am saying here is Martin Luther did in fact call the church out on a number of false doctrines and fallacies. The problem is he was branded a heretic by the RCC. But, such a strong support grew behind him the RCC eventually left him alone.

As for corruption in the church, sure any church is susceptible to corruption, there is no denying that, but I doubt Martin Luther said to himself, "You know, I really am tired of the corrupt church called the RCC, so I think I will make a corrupt one of my own."

True men of God do not intend on what they are working on to become corrupt, unfortunately it is when other people put their messy little hands in the pie it becomes less than what it was intended to be.