• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Chaplain David

CF Chaplain
Nov 26, 2007
15,989
2,353
USA
✟291,662.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
While driving to the dentist and listening to BBC Radio, abortion was being discussed. On the show the announcer stated that at latest count, there have been forty-five million abortions annually world-wide.

This is unbelievable and so sad. Many decry the loss of life from other means: wars, murders, etc., and all are tragic. But this number, forty-five million abortions annually is truly unbelievable.
 

JaneFW

Well-Known Member
Aug 12, 2005
8,058
752
62
IRL
✟11,369.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yes, the statistics are sad. I don't know how it would get changed, tho'.

From something else I read, it seems that the rates for poor women increase, while the rate of abortion overall has decreased.

Abortion Rate Increasing Among Poor Women, Even As It Decreases Among Most Other Groups
- USATODAY.com

The article blames the high cost of contraception, which poorer women/couples cannot afford.

How much does the pill cost? Does anyone know? I have no idea. I know that my MIL was about to be charged $2,000 for some medication recently, which was only a two week supply!! (Not b/c obviously!) Is it that expensive for b/c? In England it is (or it was) free, but that's because people have the NHS.
 
Upvote 0
H

hijklmnop

Guest
I would suspect that the poverty link also has a lot to do with womens' feelings of hope and capability in bringing another child into their world. This is why I tend to vote more towards someone whose policies are likely to decrease poverty than those who just SAY they're pro-life. Even a pro-choice politician, IMO, may do more to decrease abortions by improving the general quality of life in the society they're governing than by just making it more difficult legally to get an abortion. Just my two cents. And yes, it is sad that there has been so many abortions.
 
Upvote 0

JaneFW

Well-Known Member
Aug 12, 2005
8,058
752
62
IRL
✟11,369.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I would suspect that the poverty link also has a lot to do with womens' feelings of hope and capability in bringing another child into their world. This is why I tend to vote more towards someone whose policies are likely to decrease poverty than those who just SAY they're pro-life. Even a pro-choice politician, IMO, may do more to decrease abortions by improving the general quality of life in the society they're governing than by just making it more difficult legally to get an abortion. Just my two cents. And yes, it is sad that there has been so many abortions.
Very good point Dreamer.
 
Upvote 0

Conservativation

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2009
11,163
416
✟13,552.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Abortions because the mother is "concerned about bringing a child into this world" are not a significant source of abortions. Im not getting into a pro life debate by the way, but this is just not the case.
Abortion actually is a bad single issue voting consideration. Especially in the US its irrelevant to presidential politics and I wish it was not even mentioned.
Having said that, it makes little sense to see reducing poverty as a significant abortion reducer. Im well familar with the argument "pro-life doesnt stop at the birth of the baby". Again, Im not about to argue it, just my view, its either right, or its wrong. Ill respect your right to opinion. But something isnt right or wrong because you have found some loop hole in your oppositions thinking. That some pro-life person doesnt favor reducing poverty (cant imagine that but just sayin) that has zero bearing on if abortion is right, or its wrong.
 
Upvote 0

Conservativation

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2009
11,163
416
✟13,552.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Job creation. Tax relief. Less money spent on wars and more on the infrastructure. Easier/cheaper access to education and to childcare.


Good. (if private sector jobs)

Im suspecting thats not what was the point when it was mentioned. I could be wrong
 
Upvote 0
H

hijklmnop

Guest
Abortions because the mother is "concerned about bringing a child into this world" are not a significant source of abortions. Im not getting into a pro life debate by the way, but this is just not the case.
Abortion actually is a bad single issue voting consideration. Especially in the US its irrelevant to presidential politics and I wish it was not even mentioned.
Having said that, it makes little sense to see reducing poverty as a significant abortion reducer. Im well familar with the argument "pro-life doesnt stop at the birth of the baby". Again, Im not about to argue it, just my view, its either right, or its wrong. Ill respect your right to opinion. But something isnt right or wrong because you have found some loop hole in your oppositions thinking. That some pro-life person doesnt favor reducing poverty (cant imagine that but just sayin) that has zero bearing on if abortion is right, or its wrong.

Not when the stats show otherwise. Do you disagree that abortion rises with poverty levels? That's my understanding based on the stats, and it makes perfect sense IMO.

I didn't say it has any bearing on rightness or wrongness of abortion. I just know there are a lot of people who vote based on a candidate's view of abortion (pro-life or pro-choice) without considering how their policies (the ones that don't directly deal with abortion) may indirectly increase or decrease the rates. IMO that is short-sighted. I'd rather vote for a pro-choice candidate whose policies are more likely to indirectly decrease the rates by making life easier for single mothers, for example, than one who pays lip service to the issue while making life harder for at-risk people in our society.
 
Upvote 0
H

hijklmnop

Guest
Abortions because the mother is "concerned about bringing a child into this world" are not a significant source of abortions.

perhaps I should have said, "a child into HER world," then. How do you think that's not a significant source of abortions? Of course a significant number of women choose to abort because they don't feel they can handle raising a child in their circumstances.
 
Upvote 0

If Not For Grace

Legend-but then so's Keith Richards
Feb 4, 2005
28,116
2,268
Curtis Loew's House w/Kid Rock & Hank III
Visit site
✟54,498.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Birth Control is Free to the poor if they have acess to public health centers, the problem with abortion is YOUNG unwed Mothers in many instances who are simply unable or unwilling to care for a child. Most are living a lifestyle that many here can not comprehend, drug use (selling themselves for drugs) or for a place to spend the night to get away from parents who abuse them (who also may very well be immersed in drugs). The demise of the family unit is a big contirbutor to this as well as many other socio-economic problems.

People today have lost hope and many chirstians do nothing but beat them up even more, by preaching comdemnation rather than grace and love. Christians can not even get along with each other today without strife. We must begin at home, by restoring families with values.

Multiple sex partners and I mean MANY is the acceptable norm today-No comittment there. Sex outside marriage by men who promise to leave their wives eventually end up with an unwanted pregnant girl who finds she has been stupid, but what now-instant solution abortion, the same thing with "prom night" relations. Our youth is so starved for love and attention that they fulfill it in inappropriate ways. They have rarely suffered the consequence for anything as of yet other than a 1-2-3 timeout, if that & look for the quick fix to any "problem".

We must show our youth what committment means and we start with delayed gratification. It's not easy, but it is simple. You just can't get people to do it. People don't even cook at home & hwen they do it's instant everything. We want instant cures, solutions & miracles. We treat God like a magic genie and quit (any/everything) from school, church to marriage at the 1st sign of trouble.

Learning what committment and acceptance of responsibility is is key-now how do we effect that?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Chaplain David

CF Chaplain
Nov 26, 2007
15,989
2,353
USA
✟291,662.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Another stat that was quote was while the abortions from qualified medical professionals was down, abortions by people that were not as qualified were up. It is truly amazing though that so many fetuses and in some cases babies are being killed.
 
Upvote 0

Niffer

So...that just happened.
Aug 1, 2008
3,105
384
38
Ontario
✟27,746.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
So here's what confuses me. I read a story a while ago (sorry no link) about a young man who was driving under the influence, hit another vehicle that had a pregnant woman in it.
The accident caused a miscarriage.
He was sentenced to 7 years in prison for manslaughter.
This was in the U.S.

So why is the fetus suddenly a person now? Why is he getting charged for manslaughter when technically, according to the government, the baby isn't even a person yet?

It's infuriating how the law flip-flops over this.
Either the fetus is human with full human rights, or it isn't! (the latter being disgusting imho.)

-Niff
 
Upvote 0

Chaplain David

CF Chaplain
Nov 26, 2007
15,989
2,353
USA
✟291,662.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Birth Control is Free to the poor if they have acess to public health centers, the problem with abortion is YOUNG unwed Mothers in many instances who are simply unable or unwilling to care for a child. Most are living a lifestyle that many here can not comprehend, drug use (selling themselves for drugs) or for a place to spend the night to get away from parents who abuse them (who also may very well be immersed in drugs). The demise of the family unit is a big contirbutor to this as well as many other socio-economic problems.

People today have lost hope and many chirstians do nothing but beat them up even more, by preaching comdemnation rather than grace and love. Christians can not even get along with each other today without strife. We must begin at home, by restoring families with values.

Multiple sex partners and I mean MANY is the acceptable norm today-No comittment there. Sex outside marriage by men who promise to leave their wives eventually end up with an unwanted pregnant girl who finds she has been stupid, but what now-instant solution abortion, the same thing with "prom night" relations. Our youth is so starved for love and attention that they fulfill it in inappropriate ways. They have rarely suffered the consequence for anything as of yet other than a 1-2-3 timeout, if that & look for the quick fix to any "problem".

We must show our youth what committment means and we start with delayed gratification. It's not easy, but it is simple. You just can't get people to do it. People don't even cook at home & hwen they do it's instant everything. We want instant cures, solutions & miracles. We treat God like a magic genie and quit (any/everything) from school, church to marriage at the 1st sign of trouble.

Learning what committment and acceptance of responsibility is is key-now how do we effect that?

Hello,

You know I think Keith Richards has looked the same for the past 50 years LOL.

But back to the topic, another stat that I found on the internet was 1.3 million abortions annually in the US. Don't know if it's completely accurate. Still I know there's a lot of them. I remember when I was a hippie. We didn't do the things one should do for birth control.

Today I think kids are sexually active at a younger age. They, and this is anecdotal as I don't have any stats, are probably not taking many precautions.

I hate to see what happens to the life of a girl who has a baby and in most cases has no support other than her family. It is so life changing and life limiting. I am not for abortion and like Cons, thinks it needs to be removed from political debate.

I do not think that sex outside marriage by married men who are promising to leave their husband is a significant factor however. It is a sin for both parties and blaming just the man is leaving half of the equation out of the picture. It is definitely wrong though.

Yes, leaving abusive parents and getting into a prostitute lifestyle happens but I know personally girls that have left, boys too, who while they might have acted a little wild did not get into selling themselves for money. Yet some do and I agree that is a problem.

The demise of the family unit, the loosening of discipline, and the classification and treatment of teenages as some kind of special class of people or species when in reality they're kids, does not help.

I am a minister which means I minister to others. Not because I am in some special class but because I think more is necessary, I believe more clergy and every just folks who aren't clergy should be in ministerial, helping roles, helping to support and take care of others who need it. The holier than thou attitude some Christians project is not helpful. Telling someone the truth about Christ is not acting holier than though but projecting an attitude of superiority or an attitude of inferiority to someone else because of Christ is in my opinion not Christian things to do.

There is so much we can do in the world as people of faith and many try. But I think more should be done rather than have a million dollar church that sits empty most of the week when it could be used for a shelter of some kind, has a few mission trips when it could be having or supporting a lot more, and a few services a week and thinking, "Wow, we're really doing a great job here." Another thing churches are staff for with both real staff and congregation is tons of more community service.

It has been nice responding to your post and reading the responses of others.

God bless and all the best and this is for everyone.
 
Upvote 0

Chaplain David

CF Chaplain
Nov 26, 2007
15,989
2,353
USA
✟291,662.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So here's what confuses me. I read a story a while ago (sorry no link) about a young man who was driving under the influence, hit another vehicle that had a pregnant woman in it.
The accident caused a miscarriage.
He was sentenced to 7 years in prison for manslaughter.
This was in the U.S.

So why is the fetus suddenly a person now? Why is he getting charged for manslaughter when technically, according to the government, the baby isn't even a person yet?

It's infuriating how the law flip-flops over this.
Either the fetus is human with full human rights, or it isn't! (the latter being disgusting imho.)

-Niff

Hi Niffer, I won't deny it, I believe that the fetus is a person in it's own right from conception to birth. Sounds like you do too.

Some states have implemented these murder laws that now include the fetus when the mother and fetus are killed so it's considered two murders. It's part of the liberal/conservative thing or in our two party country, the republican/democrat thing.

It's so sad, both for the mom and fetus (and their family), but also the perpetrator and their family.

One of the little known facts about the US is because we start driving at the age of 16 and with less training than say, the European countires, we have a lot more accidents by younger drivers and the ramifications that result from accidents. Substance abuse is also a huge problem. When I was your age there was booze. The only folks that did drugs were like jazz musicians. That is stated rather simplistically but we simply did not have booze, and then all these other drugs added to the mind altering cafeteria.

As Christians we should be able to make a bigger difference in our society IMO.

God bless.
 
Upvote 0

JaneFW

Well-Known Member
Aug 12, 2005
8,058
752
62
IRL
✟11,369.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So here's what confuses me. I read a story a while ago (sorry no link) about a young man who was driving under the influence, hit another vehicle that had a pregnant woman in it.
The accident caused a miscarriage.
He was sentenced to 7 years in prison for manslaughter.
This was in the U.S.

So why is the fetus suddenly a person now? Why is he getting charged for manslaughter when technically, according to the government, the baby isn't even a person yet?

It's infuriating how the law flip-flops over this.
Either the fetus is human with full human rights, or it isn't! (the latter being disgusting imho.)

-Niff
In the case of the woman whose baby was lost to miscarriage - and what an awful tragedy - the child was unlawfully murdered. Abortion, OTOH, is legal.
 
Upvote 0