Does lack of religion make people immoral?

[Autumnleaf]

Atheist countries like the former Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China have starved literally millions of people to death intentionally and they have some harsh legal rules against private citizens. It seems like such places have less morality to them than places such as Vatican City which is highly religious.

 

[IzzyPop]

Yep. That is why 99% of prison population here in the US identify as atheist. And areas of low religiosity (say the South) have lower crime rates then the more secular areas of the nation. And why over in Europe those countries that have high percentages of self identified atheists have corresponding high levels of crime.

Oh, wait. They don't. I got it completely backwards.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Yep. That is why 99% of prison population here in the US identify as atheist. And areas of low religiosity (say the South) have lower crime rates then the more secular areas of the nation. And why over in Europe those countries that have high percentages of self identified atheists have corresponding high levels of crime.

Oh, wait. They don't. I got it completely backwards.

Try to unbackwards it and say what you mean because it seems like you tried to make a point without offering any premise or even clearly stating your point.

 

[CabVet]

Atheist countries like the former Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China have starved literally millions of people to death intentionally and they have some harsh legal rules against private citizens. It seems like such places have less morality to them than places such as Vatican City which is highly religious.

Yes, sure, the Crusades and the Roman Catholic Inquisitio Haereticae Pravitatis were highly moral too.

 

[Cabal]

I was going to make a comment about the size of the China/USSR vs the Vatican.

Then I realised that even given its size the Vatican is a pretty good contender.

As for those "atheistic" states - they tend to only get into trouble when they start acting like religions - unquestioning dogmatism, cults of personality, that kind of thing.

 

[Upisoft]

Atheist countries like the former Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China have starved literally millions of people to death intentionally and they have some harsh legal rules against private citizens. It seems like such places have less morality to them than places such as Vatican City which is highly religious.

The problem is not with atheism in former communist states. I am living in one of them. The problem was that there was (just like religion) only one truth - the truth of communist party. We had no freedom of thought, at least it was dangerous to have such freedom and express your ideas freely.

P.S.: The religion had its own truth, so no wonder communist party didn't like it.

 

[Autumnleaf]

The problem is not with atheism in former communist states. I am living in one of them. The problem was that there was (just like religion) only one truth - the truth of communist party. We had no freedom of thought, at least it was dangerous to have such freedom and express your ideas freely.

P.S.: The religion had its own truth, so no wonder communist party didn't like it.

The problem with atheist governments is they do horrible things to try to get where they think they want to go. Since they don't appeal to a higher authority than themselves they go on power trips where they use their power in a paranoid way to kill everyone they think threatens their power. Religious groups don't do that because they have a little faith in God to protect them. That is probably very simplified but I think Alexander Solzhenitsyn would agree with me.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Mao rounded up the drug dealers and killed them. People behaved through fear, not morality, although their basic culture is as moral as any. The greatest threat to any society is the immoral and criminal behavior of it's own people; a lesson America has yet to learn.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Mao rounded up the drug dealers and killed them. People behaved through fear, not morality, although their basic culture is as moral as any. The greatest threat to any society is the immoral and criminal behavior of it's own people; a lesson America has yet to learn.

America knew that lesson before its culture became consumerism.

 

[hollyda]

"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."

- Albert Einstein

 

[The Paul]

No.

 

[Roseluck]

As I said in a previous topic on morality, I believe morality is a social construct. Religion may be a factor or a source to derive ideas of morality from, but morality is too fluid a concept to definitively pinpoint what is moral across humanity. What I think is immoral, and what my culture teaches me is immoral, may be an acceptible practice in an Amazonian tribe, and their culture reinforces their morality.

 

[jpcedotal]

As I said in a previous topic on morality, I believe morality is a social construct. Religion may be a factor or a source to derive ideas of morality from, but morality is too fluid a concept to definitively pinpoint what is moral across humanity. What I think is immoral, and what my culture teaches me is immoral, may be an acceptible practice in an Amazonian tribe, and their culture reinforces their morality.

no way...

Morality is set in stone for the Christian and is as unchanging as God.

 

[IzzyPop]

no way...

Morality is set in stone for the Christian and is as unchanging as God.

which is why Christians still own slaves...

 

[CabVet]

no way...

Morality is set in stone for the Christian and is as unchanging as God.

Which is why Christians kill their enemies instead of offering the other side of the face.

 

[jpcedotal]

which is why Christians still own slaves...

God never said slavery was right. Just because some Christians had them didn't make it right...the same way at one time more than one wife was an acceptable practice...didn't make it morally right.

 

[jpcedotal]

Which is why Christians kill their enemies instead of offering the other side of the face.

Actually both are true and each depends on the situation.

 

[The Paul]

no way...

Morality is set in stone for the Christian and is as unchanging as God.

And you can tell yourself that.

But to those of us who haven't been trained to accept it without questioning, if you say one thing and live another, it doesn't matter how often you say it.

 

[KCfromNC]

Atheist countries like the former Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China have starved literally millions of people to death intentionally and they have some harsh legal rules against private citizens. It seems like such places have less morality to them than places such as Vatican City which is highly religious.

I doubt we can even discuss the human rights abuses of the Catholic Church in this forum, so just trust me when I say they both have fairly poor morality.

 

[KCfromNC]

God never said slavery was right. Just because some Christians had them didn't make it right...the same way at one time more than one wife was an acceptable practice...didn't make it morally right.

Considering all the esoteric prohibitions in the Bible, it's not like God was shy about telling you not to do something. You'd think that if God thought slavery was wrong he just would have said so rather than telling his followers the best way to keep slaves. But I guess God's ways are a mystery to all of us...