However, even if a believer commits a "mortal" sin, why should we stop praying for that believer?
Have you read my response to your OP? I have to wonder why people -- not necessarily you, but it is an irksome issue sometimes on CF -- post threads asking for opinions or advice, and then don't read them? If you will take a look at my post, you will see, I believe, some good evidence that John was not saying to stop praying in that situation. He was speaking of unbelievers. Christians in his time were apparently praying for the forgiveness of others' sin without the required regeneration of spirit and soul.
I began this thread with the intention of posing a "trick question" to Baptists, who I know believe in eternal security.
This is another issue I have with many members -- again, not necessarily you, SHF, as this is the first time I've seen you do it and you've admitted to it here -- but why do members post a thread ostensibly to ask advice or opinions and then proceed to argue or attempt to pick the responses apart? That's not exactly a Christlike thing to do, as its dishonest. But I digress, because, again, SHF hasn't really done that.
I believe in a conditional security that is based on obedience, not works, because I know that our good works are absolutely nothing. I do, however, believe we should be obeying the commands of Christ and doing God's will, not coasting along on the premise that we are saved and we can do whatever we want now.
There is no biblical basis for security being anything but eternal. There is nothing conditional about it.
Jude
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,
25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
John 10
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish ; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all ; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand
There is nothing in either passage which would make an exception for ourselves. In Jude, there is no equivocation such as "Him who is able to keep you from stumbling
unless you keep sinning ..." because we
will continue to sin as Christians. But we do so with ever increasing guilt which leads to confession and repentance. Remember, Peter asked Jesus "How many times shall I forgive ... seven times?" and Jesus replyed "I say to you ...
70 times 7." He didn't mean that the 491st time you neighbor offends, you no longer have to forgive him. It means you
always forgive -- and He holds Himself to no less a standard. You can never sin so much that your confession falls on deaf years, providing your confession is sincere and heartfelt. Even if it is not, you only remain in broken fellowship, you never enter into broken relationship.
In John, Jesus makes it quite clear that it is up to the Father and Him to keep you secure. It is as though we nestle in the Christ's palm, and the Father's palm closes over us. Remember Paul's writings, too.
Ephesians 1
13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation -- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.
"Sealed" is the Greek
sphragizo which is to mark, seal as a letter, and one definition is to "seal for security from Satan." "Pledge" is
arrhabon and has a very simple, direct meaning: "money which in purchases is given as a pledge or downpayment that the amount will subsequently be paid."
In other words, Christ has entered into a contract with us and pledged our redemption with the Holy Spirit. Is God a liar? Will He renege on that pledge? Again, there is no disqualification clause in this contract. The Conflict of the Two Natures will persist until our physical death, but at that time, we will be redeemed by the Lord Jesus.
I have been to an independent fundamental Baptist church, which preaches that if a believer sins enough, God will basically take that believer's life so he can no longer sin. I don't know if all Baptists believe this, but I had never heard that idea before, and frankly, it rubs me the wrong way, not only because it takes away man's free will, but also because I had never read it in scripture and it sounded preposterous.
Read 1 Corinthians 5:2-7. The concept is found in Paul's dealing with the young man who had an affair with his stepmother. It is not something I can say I've ever seen, known or suspected -- and I doubt many others could say that either -- but it is biblical.
). Therefore I cannot believe in a conditional security, one that's conditioned on my obedience, for that is just as shaky and unscriptural as being conditioned on my good works, in fact it's the same thing. If I couldn't get eternal life by obedience, then I cannot keep eternal life by obedience. And if any sin can unsave, then every sin can unsave or else I'm making up my own rules that some sins can unsave and others can't, or making up my own imaginary line of sins where one sin less than the line is ok but one sin above the line means the lake of fire.
