What proof would you need?

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All you are doing is avoiding published research and refusing to defend your fossil evidence for human ancestry.
I agree you have shown us that all the fossil evidence we thought we had is nonsense, so please tell us why we should now start to believe in a God, where is the evidence for a God? and which of the thousands of Gods should we believe in?
 
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CabVet

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Some of us gave that up 1,200 years ago.

Oh, you mean some religious people were forced to change religions or die 1,000 years ago (not 1,200 as you say)? You should read about the "Christianization" of Scandinavia some time. But did you know that we still have a day of the week dedicated to Thor? Can you guess which one it is?

So what was your point in asking if I was an expert on Greek mythology again?
 
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Astridhere

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I agree you have shown us that all the fossil evidence we thought we had is nonsense, so please tell us why we should now start to believe in a God, where is the evidence for a God? and which of the thousands of Gods should we believe in?


You are confusing religion with science. Is it not evolutionists that constantly complain of bible quoters using the bible for evidence. Well I do not and evos still whine.

The obvious leap of reasoning is that if creation is supported and evolutionist naturalism is falsified, then a God, by any name, must have created. It is that simple.

I believe in the God of the bible because the writers did not seek glory and fortune for themselves and in this aspect the bible as a spiritual text stands alone. Glory and fortune is what all other spiritual leaders seek that suggest they are tapped into their God and have a direct line to Him.

However this is not so for the bible writers, regardless of all the intelligencia about whom wrote what and when......This in itself is miraculous...

Thankyou for being in agreeance with the nonsense of your fossil evidence for human ancestry.

I also note that USincognito is back and still has had nothing to say about Afarensis not being human, and the arrogant shmoock Dawkins may well be shown to be with more recent research...that is if USincognito still maintains Dawkins thinks Lucy is human and does not wish to recant and save Dawkins credibility, at this stage.
 
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Phred

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You are confusing religion with science. Is it not evolutionists that constantly complain of bible quoters using the bible for evidence. Well I do not and evos still whine.

The obvious leap of reasoning is that if creation is supported and evolutionist naturalism is falsified, then a God, by any name, must have created. It is that simple.
It would be that simple. But creationism is not supported. In fact, it has been falsified. It did not happen. At least not in the way a literal interpretation of the Bible would predict. There isn't a global sediment layer left from a flood. The genealogy of the world's population cannot have come from one family. Nor can it have come from just two people as the originators. And lastly, even if you falsify everything that science claims today a reasonable man still does not turn to magic.

I believe in the God of the bible because the writers did not seek glory and fortune for themselves and in this aspect the bible as a spiritual text stands alone.
That's incorrect. The writers of the Bible had just as much of a horse in the race as the authors of books about Bigfoot have in the race. Money. The Bible as a spiritual text stands alongside the Koran and other such texts. It's priests and such gained followers who supported them. Those that could claim that "Jesus slept here" gained tourist dollars. Constantine gained an empire. Your claim is ... false.

Glory and fortune is what all other spiritual leaders seek that suggest they are tapped into their God and have a direct line to Him.
So you claim.

However this is not so for the bible writers, regardless of all the intelligencia about whom wrote what and when......This in itself is miraculous...
Uh huh...

Thankyou for being in agreeance with the nonsense of your fossil evidence for human ancestry.
The fossil evidence for human ancestry is just what we'd expect to find. Varying branches of life attempting different designs. I know you're so desperate to discredit it... but you're almost humorous in your radical howling.

I also note that USincognito is back and still has had nothing to say about Afarensis not being human, and the arrogant shmoock Dawkins may well be shown to be with more recent research...that is if USincognito still maintains Dawkins thinks Lucy is human and does not wish to recant and save Dawkins credibility, at this stage.
We are all primates. We are all apes. After that the categorization is fine detail. What fossil belongs in which niche. Lucy is most assuredly part of our family. Whether that's as an aunt or a cousin isn't really the point. The point is that she's at the table with us at holidays.
 
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Astridhere

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Phred here you are again with no words of any substance.

I have already spoken to a human metatarsel that could not belong to an ape. This my dear is data produced by your own.

Hence mankind is demonstrated in the fossil record as being here before their supposed ancestors. If mankind was created this is what I would expect to find. Apes do not have arched feet nor human metatarels and Erectus was a waddler. You have not spoken to any of it. You hang around gobsmacked and then implore ignorance when you post. Hence not only does this metarsel demonstrate that evo researchers have no idea what they are talking about, it also supports creation.....

Evolutionists like nothing better than to go around in circles and chase their tail. They have 150 years of it and are very refined and talking much and saying nothing. You have had absolutely nothing of substance to say..absolutely nothing..

All you do is chase your tail, ignore what I do provide then persist in rampant woffling as a demonstration of your credibility.....


Best of all is seeing USincognito, Dawkins mate... head for the hills.... He is probably hanging with Loudmouth the other one that has plenty to say until the going gets tough and the gobsmacked head for the hills..

If you want to add something intelligent how about calling the researchers that say Lucy is just a bipedal ape idiots because little old you knows better?????

Could fossils with chimp traits possibly be a chimp ancestor? Of course not. It must be human. Rubbish! Why don't you speak to this?

I have provided evidence that Lucy is not human. All Lucys' humanity, that evos woffled on about, is down the shute and up a tree, and not sititing on a human branch either I may add.
 
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Phred

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Phred here you are again with no words of any substance.

I have already spoken to a human metatarsel that could not belong to an ape. This my dear is data produced by your own.
Humans ARE apes. Thus what you're saying doesn't quite make sense.

To clarify:


Hominoidea
  • humans (genus Homo)
  • chimpanzees (genus Pan)
  • gorillas (genus Gorilla)
  • orangutans (genus Pongo)

This is the modern-day grouping that you refer to when you say, "ape". Specifically these are the "great apes". The lesser apes are the gibbons. From what I understand there are three common uses of the term "ape": non-biologists may not distinguish between "monkeys" and "apes", or may use "ape" for any tailless monkey or nonhuman hominoid, whereas biologists traditionally used the term "ape" for all non-human hominoids, or the non-human apes.

So if you're going to be specific and pretend to be scientific please, what do you mean?

Hence mankind is demonstrated in the fossil record as being here before their supposed ancestors. If mankind was created this is what I would expect to find. Apes do not have arched feet nor human metatarels and Erectus was a waddler. You have not spoken to any of it.
I don't need to speak to any of it when you speak to magic and what you would expect to find if magic happened. That's also ridiculous. You can't get the basics correct and fail to understand what a classification even IS much less how they come about. So you bandy about terms like "ancestor" and then apply it to the wrong groups.

You hang around gobsmacked and then implore ignorance when you post. Hence not only does this metarsel demonstrate that evo researchers have no idea what they are talking about, it also supports creation.....
Not even a nice try. But like I said, even if every single piece of research were falsified that would not support creation. By the way, the word is "metatarsal". One other thing, every one of your posts contain spelling errors. That also supports that you're just a touch out of sync with reality and perhaps a high school education.

Evolutionists like nothing better than to go around in circles and chase their tail. They have 150 years of it and are very refined and talking much and saying nothing. You have had absolutely nothing of substance to say..absolutely nothing..
Well, nothing that you want to hear or can understand.

All you do is chase your tail, ignore what I do provide then persist in rampant woffling as a demonstration of your credibility.....
I do ignore how you cherry-pick evidence to support your desire to see us all created. Because you have an obvious bias. For all your ploys at pretending that you are scientifically based what you are is Biblically based. You just find bits and pieces of science that support what you want to say regardless of the context. You'll excuse me if I don't take your critique of my credibility to heart. And the word is "waffling".

Best of all is seeing USincognito, Dawkins mate... head for the hills....
I think he might just be busy with the holidays.

I have provided evidence that Lucy is not human.
Australopithecus afarensis shows traits that are halfway between non-human ape and hominid. So how in the world did you manage something that nobody else has been able to do?

All Lucys' humanity, that evos woffled on about, is down the shute and up a tree, and not sititing on a human branch either I may add.
Waffle, chute and sitting. Lucy belongs in our family tree. I haven't read enough to categorically state whether that's as a direct ancestor or a branch but she's a hominid. No doubt. In your zeal to find out that mankind doesn't have ancestors you overlooked the possibility that you're simply wrong.
 
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Astridhere

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Humans ARE apes. Thus what you're saying doesn't quite make sense.

To clarify:






Hominoidea
  • humans (genus Homo)
  • chimpanzees (genus Pan)
  • gorillas (genus Gorilla)
  • orangutans (genus Pongo)
Here we go again.. How many times have I said that classifying a species according to a classification system you evos invented is not evidence of anything. If you bothered to actually look at the differences you would clearly see that sophisticated language, higher reasoning ability, abstract thought, lack of a furry coat, 30% differences at least in the Y chromosome, insertions and deletions and genetic homoplasy that means human and chimp DNA is not the same at all, the 10% larger chimp genome, the differences in genome surface composition, the differnces in hot spots, the differences in expression would clearly separate mankind from beast if you evolutionists were not living in a dream world.


This is the modern-day grouping that you refer to when you say, "ape". Specifically these are the "great apes". The lesser apes are the gibbons. From what I understand there are three common uses of the term "ape": non-biologists may not distinguish between "monkeys" and "apes", or may use "ape" for any tailless monkey or nonhuman hominoid, whereas biologists traditionally used the term "ape" for all non-human hominoids, or the non-human apes.
Yeah we all know what the flavour of the month states. Too bad I have demonstrated it to be all crap. Ardi has redrawn your tree to a new flavour of the month
So if you're going to be specific and pretend to be scientific please, what do you mean?
I use your own evidence to demonstrate you lot have no idea what you are talking about. eg human feet on apes. I also use your own research to demonstrate even biased woffle still supports creation better than evolution eg Human metararsel

I don't need to speak to any of it when you speak to magic and what you would expect to find if magic happened. That's also ridiculous. You can't get the basics correct and fail to understand what a classification even IS much less how they come about. So you bandy about terms like "ancestor" and then apply it to the wrong groups.
No magic in the science I use as support other than the whole lot of of your evo science being nonsense..that is

Not even a nice try. But like I said, even if every single piece of research were falsified that would not support creation. By the way, the word is "metatarsal". One other thing, every one of your posts contain spelling errors. That also supports that you're just a touch out of sync with reality and perhaps a high school education.
My spelling errors do not bolster your stance lovey. I am telling you to either defend your stance with more than woffle or sustain from further tail chasing and challenges I have already more than adequately dealt with.

Well, nothing that you want to hear or can understand.
Then refute the research I posted that clearly states Lucy has chimpanzee traits, which BYW the common ancestor does not have eg Ardi

I do ignore how you cherry-pick evidence to support your desire to see us all created. Because you have an obvious bias. For all your ploys at pretending that you are scientifically based what you are is Biblically based. You just find bits and pieces of science that support what you want to say regardless of the context. You'll excuse me if I don't take your critique of my credibility to heart. And the word is "waffling".

I can refute any taxon you care to mention. Start a new thread and let's go....
I think he might just be busy with the holidays.


Australopithecus afarensis shows traits that are halfway between non-human ape and hominid. So how in the world did you manage something that nobody else has been able to do?
You mean your silly researchers have made Lucy out to be so. That was great when she was a human ancestor. She isn't and I have produced the evidence to back myself up. Clearly you, USingonito & Loudmouth are unable to wiggle your little butts out of this one..so you ignore it, try to lurk around every aside like spelling mistakes and resort to tail chasing....

Rememer this? or is your retentive memory challenged in some way?

The presence of the morphology in both the latter and Au. afarensis and its absence in modern humans cast doubt on the role of Au. afarensis as a modern human ancestor. The ramal anatomy of the earlier Ardipithecus ramidus is virtually that of a chimpanzee, corroborating the proposed phylogenetic scenario.
Gorilla-like anatomy on Australopithecus afarensis mandibles suggests Au. afarensis link to robust australopiths

I am still waiting for Loudmouth to address the whackey pelvis of Turkana Boy after he threw of to it possibly being a mix of individuals. I as stilkl waiting for US to have something to save Dawkins and now I have you flatly refusing to defend your fossils with any more than your opinion.
Waffle, chute and sitting. Lucy belongs in our family tree. I haven't read enough to categorically state whether that's as a direct ancestor or a branch but she's a hominid. No doubt. In your zeal to find out that mankind doesn't have ancestors you overlooked the possibility that you're simply wrong.
You still have said nothing of substance let alone say anything that looks like a refute

Could a fossil with chimp traits possibly be a chimp ancestor. Of course not. It is human. What rot!


Did you know supposed ornags had human traits around 12mya, the same time as Lluc the proposed flat faced ape, was around?

Lufengpithecus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bipedalism and reduced pelvis are not human traits anymore pal... In fact you lot have no idea anymore...so there goes your classification system....You lot make it up as you go along the same as any good storyteller.....

Evolutionists do not let real science and observation stand in the way of a good story.
 
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Herman Hedning

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Lufengpithecus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bipedalism and reduced pelvis are not human traits anymore pal... In fact you lot have no idea anymore...so there goes your classification system....You lot make it up as you go along the same as any good storyteller.....

Evolutionists do not let real science and observation stand in the way of a good story.

I don't know why you are bringing up Lufengipithecus now? Probably because of a somewhat uncertain classification? You are aware that the only fossils we have of Lufengipithecus are skulls and parts of skulls? It is somewhat difficult to discern bipedalism or pelvis shape from that.
 
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Astridhere

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I don't know why you are bringing up Lufengipithecus now? Probably because of a somewhat uncertain classification? You are aware that the only fossils we have of Lufengipithecus are skulls and parts of skulls? It is somewhat difficult to discern bipedalism or pelvis shape from that.

Lufengpithecus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sinanthropus: More on the Proximal Femur of Lufengpithecus.

These sites speak to more than just a few specimens including a femur. However I am happy for you to mention only a few skulls or bones as the basis for most evolutionary assertions and whole life stories often based on a single fossil or two. Indeed as far as humanity is concerned all you have is a partial Lucy 40% complete found over a huge area, Turkana Boy found over 1250 cubic meters of dirt, Salem that many have been found more or less in tact and Ardi's partial skeleton. That is it. ..so I am glad you mentioned it.

I bought up the ornag and Lufengipithecus as an example of the mess your taxonomy is currently in response to the continual statement of 'humans are apes'. These are supposed to have many human traits back 12mya. this is just one more example of the vagueness and uselessness of evos comparative analysis in relation to morphology.

There has not been, nor will there be any challenge, to my cited research. It is recent. It is published. Lucy, is not in the human line. She has chimpanzee features and is more likely to be a chimp ancestor than a human one. This illustrates how evolutionary researchers simply have no credibility. They are desperate for fame and grants, not the truth.

The orang is another creature I love to talk about. It shares more morphology with a human than a chimp and many researchers suggest this should take precedence over DNA comparisons. They have even come up with explanations/stories to explain this.

There are at least 28 such well-corroborated features compared with perhaps as few as one unique feature shared between humans and chimpanzees. It is widely believed that these physical features are misleading, but an alternative possibility is that orangutans have undergone more genetic change than humans and African apes have since their divergence from the common ancestor. If this had happened, then the apparent genetic similarity between humans and chimpanzees would not necessarily be due to a close evolutionary relationship.[13][14] This hypothesis has been proposed as an explanation as to why early hominids, such as the australopiths, not only look more like orangutans than either African ape, but also share characters unique to orangutans and their close fossil relatives, such as a thickened posteror palate and anterior zygomatic roots.[15]

Hominidae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Further to that this page speaks to the changes to Hominidae as more fossil evidence messed up the initial definition. Again so much for evolutionists taxonomy as proof of anything. These researchers have made apes out of men only because they ignore the differences mentioned in my last post and many more.

Evolution of the second orangutan: phylogeny and biogeography of hominid origins - Grehan - 2009 - Journal of Biogeography - Wiley Online Library

And this published research from 2009 above speaks to Orangs forming a clad with mankind to the exclusion of chimps and gorillas...so much again for your taxonomy.....:doh:

The exact criteria for membership in the Homininae under the chimpanzee theory of human origins are not clear, but the subfamily generally includes those species that share more than 97% of their DNA with the modern human genome, and exhibit a capacity for language or for simple cultures beyond the family or band.

So here above we have a fantastic flavour of the month scenario of taxonomic inclusion based on DNA, because the morpholical ones simply do not work for you guys anymore with all the morphological and genetic homoplasy, convergent evolution and the rest of the terms evos use to address contradictions and falsifications.

As we all know the 98% chimp/human similarity is only so because these biased researchers choose what to count or ignore in comparing DNA.

Global analysis of alternative splicing differences between humans and chimpanzees

The published article above speaks to 6%-8% diffferent in MTDNA alone. This does not include the Y chromosome difference of at least 30% and 54% in some studies, the 10% difference in size and surface structure. This 6-8% does not include the many other differences in the genome some of which I spoke to in my last post. So now mankind and chimps are out of the 97% similarity definition of Homininae.

So do evolutionists then take chimps out of Hominidae? No. What do they toddle off and do...tweak their definitions to maintain an ape in with mankind, only count what they want, use another definition or ignore the differences. This is just one example of the biased nonsense evos taxonomic system is. Any species classification is not any sort of evidence in itself...as Phred would like to think.


So where to from here. Nowhere for evolutionists and their researchers. They have no idea what they are talking about, they have attributed humanity to just about every ape they find and that is why you have no ancestry for chimps or gorillas. They have no idea what a human trait is given that bipeds have been around for 8my at least and likely more with the ornag ancestors, Ardi had short arms unlike a chimp, reduced facial features have been around for 12my in Lluc, a reduced pelvis mean nothing, and Ardi was an upright biped and likely a gorilla ancestor.

Lucy and all her humanity is a delusion as is the humanity you attribute to Erectus, ergaster and the whackey pelvis of Turkana Boy due for reconstruction to fit the Gona erectus female waddler.

What proof would I need to convert? Something that actually looks like evidence for evolution would be a good start. So far I have not seen any either in relation to fossils or genomic comparisons.

Evolutionists will not let real science and observation stand in the way of a good story and that is why I will never convert.
 
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Astridhere

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Astridhere, it's obvious you feel comfortable believing in magic.

I believe in the power of God. You believe in apes with human feet.

My story is much more plausible than yours.

You also happen to be someone unable to refute me.
 
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I believe in the power of God. You believe in apes with human feet.

Humans are biologically classified as apes.

My story is much more plausible than yours.

Yup! You have a story, I have millions of published research papers from many independent fields of science all supporting evolution. Keep telling your story, there are many ignorant people you can still fool.

You also happen to be someone unable to refute me.

"Denial":crossrc: is not a river Egypt.
 
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Astridhere

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Humans are biologically classified as apes.

I have already been here. Why don't you lot of 'do drop ins' go back a couple of pages and have a look. In fact you only have to go back to my last post. However that would mean you would actually have to think! You lot have invented the taxonomic system and it changes eg Homininae. Then you use you own unrelaible and knee jerk system to call mankind an ape and think this is the basis of evidence. You obviously have no idea what evidence looks like, because none of you have offered any more than ridicule and evasion and a strong desire to demonstrate how ignorant an evolutionist can be.


If you want to actualy look like you have something to say, why don't you refute me intead of ignoring the support I provide. When you ignore and just contunue to quack you cannot blame me for feeling I have won the day.

One example you may like to ignore that provides more than your quacking....


I have spoken to the 97% similarity for inclusion into Homininae. This is now defunct by research noting a 6-8% difference in Mtdna...meaning chimps should no longer be regarded as homininae. Refute that if you want to add anything intelligent as opposed to ignorance and quacking.

Yup! You have a story, I have millions of published research papers from many independent fields of science all supporting evolution. Keep telling your story, there are many ignorant people you can still fool.

Yep and your research papers provide flavour of the month and this is all, just like you had irrefuteable proof we evolved from knucklewalkers, now falsified and residing in the great garbage bin of evolutionary delusions with LUCA killed by HGT, bipedalism tied to brain size, junk dna that was run into creationists now refuted by functionality etc etc etc. Now we know who the real knucklewalkers are and they happen to be your researchers.


Your research better supports creation then evolution, as biased as it is. I am speaking to some right now in that chimps should be taken out of homininae because they do not meet the criteria......meaning mankind stands alone....That is called support as opposed to quacking and woffling....

"Denial":crossrc: is not a river Egypt.

Denial is making smart butt and delusional comments and not being able to refute anything I have said. Quacking belongs to ducks. How about demonstrating the human trait I hope you have which is higher reasoning ability for a change? That would be a nice change!

Yet another poster that just likes to see himself post with nothing to say apparently.....

I say chimps and gorillas should not be in the Homininae group. Refute me if you can, with support rather than useless opinion
 
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