Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

[LittleLambofJesus]

What is not true, about that?

About what?

 

[brinny]

huh?

 

[98cwitr]

What is not true, about that?

The "simple, really" part

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I guess if you really WANT the parable to be a fact account of the condition in Hell (actually Hades), then it's not a parable.

Hades is a Greek rendering of the Hebrew word Qadesh/Kadesh =holy in a bad way. The Q, H, K, C, are interchangeable gutturals. The word comes from the judgment of the "eternal fires" suffered by Sodom & Co for the fornication and other wickedness they did do there. The word Qadesh stands for a male prostitute, dedicated to ungodly temples, and so, Qadesh became Kades/Hades/Cades; forever a coined word for Sheol below, come of the happening at the "well spring of judgment" at that plain.
Coined words are all through the Word of God, and in our own times, we coin words from specific happenings.

Genesis 14:7
William Tyndale's Translation
And then turned they and came to the well of iugmente which is Cades and smote all the contre of the Amalechites and also the amorytes that dwell in Hazezon Thamar.
Coverdale's Translation
And then they turned, & came to the well of iudgment (which is Cades) & smote all the countre of the Amalechites, and also the Amorites, that dwelt in Hazezon Thamar.
Modern Spelling Tyndale-Coverdale
And then turned they and came to the well of judgment which is Kadesh, and smote all the country of the Amalekites, and also the Amorites that dwell in Hazezon-Tamar.
Geneva Bible
And they returned and came to En-mishpat, which is Kadesh, and smote all the countrey of the Amalekites, and also the Amorites that dwelled in Hazezon-tamar.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

huh?

 

[Lion King]

Yes it is mentioned, from where they ended up, and the Word of God they had which they either believed, or did not believe, to end up where they were -simple, really

I believe the story only mentions the poor man (Lazarus) going to Abraham's bosom because:

"But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented." Luke 16:25

So, tell me again, are the poor guranteed the Kingdom of God because they have nothing on earth, and are the rich condemned to torment because they lived in comfort on earth?

 

[Lion King]

Hades is a Greek rendering of the Hebrew word Qadesh/Kadesh =holy in a bad way. The Q, H, K, C, are interchangeable gutturals. The word comes from the judgment of the "eternal fires" suffered by Sodom & Co for the fornication and other wickedness they did do there. The word Qadesh stands for a male prostitute, dedicated to ungodly temples, and so, Qadesh became Kades/Hades/Cades; forever a coined word for Sheol below, come of the happening at the "well spring of judgment" at that plain.
Coined words are all through the Word of God, and in our own times, we coin words from specific happenings.

Genesis 14:7
William Tyndale's Translation
And then turned they and came to the well of iugmente which is Cades and smote all the contre of the Amalechites and also the amorytes that dwell in Hazezon Thamar.
Coverdale's Translation
And then they turned, & came to the well of iudgment (which is Cades) & smote all the countre of the Amalechites, and also the Amorites, that dwelt in Hazezon Thamar.
Modern Spelling Tyndale-Coverdale
And then turned they and came to the well of judgment which is Kadesh, and smote all the country of the Amalekites, and also the Amorites that dwell in Hazezon-Tamar.
Geneva Bible
And they returned and came to En-mishpat, which is Kadesh, and smote all the countrey of the Amalekites, and also the Amorites that dwelled in Hazezon-tamar.

Hades is the greek word for sheol or grave.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hades is the greek word for sheol or grave.

I would think the Jews would agree with that

John 19:30 When then Jesus had received/got the vinegar, He said "It has been finished"! and reclining the head He gives-up the spirit.

Reve 1:18 and the living One! And I became dead and behold! I am living into the Ages of the Ages.
And I am having the Keys of the Hades and of the Death

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
"death" hades"
occurs in 4 verses in the YNG, including 1 exact phrase shown first.

Spirits in the Material World - The Police - YouTube

 

[Timothew]

No place in the Word of God does destruction mean annihilation. Matter is eternal, since the beginning, but the state of matter can be changed.
In the case of "the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished", the system was brought to ruin, and a new beginning was started with Noah and those on the Ark. Nothing was annihilated of the perished world, but the state of its existence changed.

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

In the case of the wicked dead and the demons who are tormented forever in the Lake of Fire [the domain and kingdom of the Satans, where their eternal food is to torment and afflict the souls of the demons, the fallen angels, and the unrepentant wicked of Adam who are cast there body and soul], they are not annihialated, but ruined, perished, for the purpose they were made for, and the undying worms there are the wicked in Adam who get their own bodies back [or are cast alive into that place at the return of Jesus to reign, without dying], but those bodies are minus the Adam spirit, and they can never hope for metamorphosis into the image of the sons of God. It is finished, and their doom is sealed by their own deeds done in their own body, without repentance of them.

I never said destruction means annihilated. Destruction of course means destruction. What destruction in particular does not mean is eternal life in hell, never destroyed but always alive and kicking and on fire.

 

[Timothew]

Hades is a Greek rendering of the Hebrew word Qadesh/Kadesh =holy in a bad way. The Q, H, K, C, are interchangeable gutturals. The word comes from the judgment of the "eternal fires" suffered by Sodom & Co for the fornication and other wickedness they did do there. The word Qadesh stands for a male prostitute, dedicated to ungodly temples, and so, Qadesh became Kades/Hades/Cades; forever a coined word for Sheol below, come of the happening at the "well spring of judgment" at that plain.
Coined words are all through the Word of God, and in our own times, we coin words from specific happenings.

Genesis 14:7
William Tyndale's Translation
And then turned they and came to the well of iugmente which is Cades and smote all the contre of the Amalechites and also the amorytes that dwell in Hazezon Thamar.
Coverdale's Translation
And then they turned, & came to the well of iudgment (which is Cades) & smote all the countre of the Amalechites, and also the Amorites, that dwelt in Hazezon Thamar.
Modern Spelling Tyndale-Coverdale
And then turned they and came to the well of judgment which is Kadesh, and smote all the country of the Amalekites, and also the Amorites that dwell in Hazezon-Tamar.
Geneva Bible
And they returned and came to En-mishpat, which is Kadesh, and smote all the countrey of the Amalekites, and also the Amorites that dwelled in Hazezon-tamar.

No.

The septuagint (greek old testament) translates Sheol as Hades.
Job 7:9 (for instance)
When a cloud vanishes, it is gone, So he who goes down to Sheol does not come up.

ὥσπερ νέφος ἀποκαθαρθὲν ἀπ' οὐρανοῦ ἐὰν γὰρ ἄνθρωπος καταβῇ εἰς ᾅδην οὐκέτι μὴ ἀναβῇ

כלה ענן וילך כן יורד שאול לא יעלה

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I never said destruction means annihilated. Destruction of course means destruction. What destruction in particular does not mean is eternal life in hell, never destroyed but always alive and kicking and on fire.

That would appear to be a correct assessment

Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable - Page 3 - Christian Forums

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.......... [Luke 16:24,26]

Reve 18:8 by this, in one day shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be being burned, that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her
[Luke 19:41,44/Reve 19:3]

Reve 19:3 And a second-time they have declared "allelouia and the smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".

 

[brinny]

That would appear to be a correct assessment

Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable - Page 3 - Christian Forums

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.......... [Luke 16:24,26]

Reve 18:8 by this, in one day shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be being burned, that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her
[Luke 19:41,44/Reve 19:3]

Reve 19:3 And a second-time they have declared "allelouia and the smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".

That fits right in with the rich man in a fiery place of torment where he thirsted and there was no relief, but he remained thirsty, unendingly, and conscious of it. The worst part was maybe that he could actually see Lazarus being comforted, and he could never be a part of it. Ever.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I believe the story only mentions the poor man (Lazarus) going to Abraham's bosom because:

"But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented." Luke 16:25

So, tell me again, are the poor guranteed the Kingdom of God because they have nothing on earth, and are the rich condemned to torment because they lived in comfort on earth?

No. The Word they both were born into tells them how to be righteous with God and forgiven of sins.
One believed. One did not.
"There is no respect of persons with God". Abraham was rich. Job was rich. Rich man poor man beggar man thief -all may repent and be saved, by trusting in God.
The soul that sins, dies =is cut off from Him forever, if they do not return to Him and repent of their sins.

 

[Lion King]

No. The Word they both were born into tells them how to be righteous with God and forgiven of sins.
One believed. One did not.
"There is no respect of persons with God". Abraham was rich. Job was rich. Rich man poor man beggar man thief -all may repent and be saved, by trusting in God.
The soul that sins, dies =is cut off from Him forever, if they do not return to Him and repent of their sins.

What are you talking about? Show me where that is said in that story?

 

[winslow]

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[winslow]

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[winslow]

.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

...
...
Even with the most fertile imagination it is difficult to believe that from Hell one can see people in Heaven and talk to them. But the story gets stranger still:
"But Abraham replied. 'Son remember that in your ilfetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone else cross over from there to us". (vs. 25-26)
Nothing else in the Bible prepares us for this description of Hell. (v.25)

Abraham was not in heaven, when Lazarus was carried to that place below earth set apart for the righteous to wait for the Day of Atonement, in.

Bible means collection of writings/books. Enoch is in the Bible =collection of manuscripts/writings, in the DSS, and in the Enochian Ge'ez Bible, where it has always been and remained since the Jews of Ethiopia received the Gospel in the first century.

Enoch does indeed tell exactly of the places below earth which Jesus spoke of in Luke 16.
To be in "the bosom of Abraham" is to be comforted by Abraham, the father of the faith.

Here is Enoch's description of Sheol below earth, which he saw when taken there by the angel.

A Visit to Sheol
5I saw the spirits of the children of men who were dead, and their voice went forth to heaven and made suit.

6Then I asked Raphael the angel who was with me, and I said unto him: "This spirit- whose is it, whose voice goeth forth and maketh suit?"

7And he answered me saying: "This is the spirit which went forth from Abel, whom his brother Cain slew, and he makes his suit against him till his seed is destroyed from the face of the earth, and his seed is annihilated from amongst the seed of men."

8Then I asked regarding it, and regarding all the hollow places: "Why is one separated from the other?"

9And he answered me and said unto me: "These three have been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And such a division has been made for the spirits of the righteous, in which there is the bright spring of water.



10And such has been made for sinners when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed on them in their lifetime.

11Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgement and punishment and torment of those who curse for ever and retribution for their spirits. There He shall bind them for ever.



12And such a division has been made for the spirits of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction, when they were slain in the days of the sinners.

13Such has been made for the spirits of men who were not righteous but sinners, who were complete in transgression, and of the transgressors they shall be companions: but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgement nor shall they be raised from thence." 14Then I blessed the Lord of glory and said: "Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of righteousness, who ruleth for ever."

 

[Lion King]

This is too many coincidences for them not to have been the same person.

It would seem like the person you are quoting from is relying on assumptions.

 

[sleepingdog]

http://www.sheldonemrylibrary.com/Rich Man and Lazarus.pdf - THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS (about 20 Pages)