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Good. Atheism is cleared of the charges. [/thread]
eudaimonia,
Mark
It certainly is, none were made.
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Good. Atheism is cleared of the charges. [/thread]
eudaimonia,
Mark
It simply does not matter that his plans involved nationalism... it is undeniable that he was promoting atheism and that is enough to substantiate my points and I will not defend arguments that I have not made such as a person did something because they were an atheist.
it is undeniable that he was promoting atheism
I will deny it
Even if you never agree with my use of words... it still remains true that he did these things in order to establish atheism, that substantiates my point.
Of course it does, your using a silly example does not make anything else silly. It is not deniable that he did those things, in order to establish atheism and that is not distinguishable from "for atheism" the "to" is not distinguishable from "for". He did those things in order to establish atheism.
Even if you never agree with my use of words... it still remains true that he did these things in order to establish atheism, that substantiates my point.
Of course it does, your using a silly example does not make anything else silly. It is not deniable that he did those things, in order to establish atheism and that is not distinguishable from "for atheism" the "to" is not distinguishable from "for". He did those things in order to establish atheism.
Even if you never agree with my use of words... it still remains true that he did these things in order to establish atheism, that substantiates my point.
Stalin did what he did in order to maintain his power as a communist dictator. No more and no less.
eudaimonia,
Mark
You've posted enough to demonstrate that non-religious governments have killed people, but you have yet to demonstrate that they killed people in the name of atheism, so don't be surprised when people point this out.
My point is that he was using atheism as a tool to accomplish increased power to the state. If he could get the same power by instating some religion, then he would have. Stalin had little interest in atheism in terms of the benefits it would have for the people in the state. That is the point I am making. Making everyone an atheist was never the goal. Increasing power for the state was a goal.
You've posted enough to demonstrate that non-religious governments have killed people, but you have yet to demonstrate that they killed people in the name of atheism, so don't be surprised when people point this out.
A nice way of saying that you find it immpossible that people could commit violence in the name of atheism. Religion? Yes - not not atheism.JGG said:These statistics aren't mean to be fair, they're meant to produce a scapegoat. They're meant to point the finger at atheists and say "they're evil." They're meant to remind Christians why atheists are their hated enemies. Making the statistics comparable would seriously undermine that. No Christian would ever verify the claims to make sure they're reasonable, as they already produce the desired result: Atheists are just evil.
This has been addressed already. I added an example here showing the difference between a killer who happens to be an atheist, and people actually killing in the name of atheism.Tiberius said:Sure, atheists can do bad things. But they don't do it because they are atheists. How can you say that everything a person does is motivated by their religious beliefs or non-beliefs? If that is true, shouldn't the fact that the majority of prison are believers inmates tell us that religion also motivates people to be bad? Of course not. Just because a thief is a Christian doesn't mean that he is a thief BECAUSE he is Christian. Likewise, just because a thief is an atheist shouldn't mean that he is a thief BECAUSE he is an atheist.
Don't confuse correlation with causality.
And? Most Christians know full well our Christimas traditions are either modern or have pagan roots. This doesn't change the fact atheists have no more reason to celebrate Saturnalia than they have to celebrate Christmas.Phred said:Why then do you do it? Jesus wasn't born in December. The early Christian co-opted the pagan holidays that happened around this time. Pine trees have nothing at all to do with Jesus. Doesn't the Bible prohibit putting up trees? The mid-winter holiday, whatever you call it, was a festival to welcome back the sun. I've always liked summer better than winter so... Yay sun! And Yay Santa! Yay presents and yay fireplaces and yay being close to people I love. Jesus? eh... not so much. At least, not the Jesus the Republican right wing would have you believe lived. The one that hates gays and had blonde hair and white skin... you know, the marketing Jesus. Don't talk to me about atheists not being true to reality.
Acropolis said:You've posted enough to demonstrate that non-religious governments have killed people, but you have yet to demonstrate that they killed people in the name of atheism, so don't be surprised when people point this out.
Tiberius said:Making everyone an atheist was never the goal. Increasing power for the state was a goal.
Trying to get an atheist to admit atheism is not infallible is like trying to get a Creationist to accept evolution ...Eudiamonist said:Good. Atheism is cleared of the charges. [/thread]
Trying to get an atheist to admit atheism is not infallible is like trying to get a Creationist to accept evolution ...
There is plenty of evidence to suggest people have been killed in the name of atheism (for example, Lenin saying that people who don't come to work so they can celebrate Christmas should be shot). People ignore it because it goes against their personal opinions.
And they call it "Free-thinking".
and my point is only that him making people atheist was demonstrated to be a purpose of his (I accept it was not his end purpose) and for that reason I say they were done in the name of atheism, for the purpose of atheism.
Trying to get an atheist to admit atheism is not infallible is like trying to get a Creationist to accept evolution ...
There is plenty of evidence to suggest people have been killed in the name of atheism (for example, Lenin saying that people who don't come to work so they can celebrate Christmas should be shot). People ignore it because it goes against their personal opinions.
And they call it "Free-thinking".
My point was clearly displayed in the OP and throughout... and is that people have committed crimes in the name of Atheism
I don't deny his ultimate cause may not have been the promotion of atheism
and crimes have been committed by the nonreligious.
Yet when crimes commited in the name of atheism are pointed out, people always blame something else.No one is saying that atheism is infallible.
A concept the atheists here seem to have trouble grasping.Eudiamonist said:Free-thinking includes the possibility of disagreeing with you.