Blacks, Racism & Russia: Does anyone know what Russian Orthodoxy has said on this?

[Gxg (G²)]

Shalom

In regards to why I was writing this, I recently got down doing a research project with a Russian student whom I came to admire greatly for a variety of reasons/learned much from (as discussed here, for anyone interested in what was said). In talking to him, I was greatly inspired and was considering the possibility of visiting the land of Russia. Specifically, I was hoping to investigate the city of Moscow and see its people. The culture seems to be a very fascinating one for a myriad of reasons--and in doing previous research on the culture, I was amazed to see/witness the diverse history that it possessed. Although I've never been one for the col weather, I think it's something that'd be worth getting used to for the sake of enjoying the experience of seeing Russian culture---and I'd especially like to go over there for the purpose of investigating what the Russian Orthodox Church is like over there.

However, there were some things that seemed to bother me (as a Black Hispanic) when I looked into current events happening in Russia.

Specifically, although I've been to part of Europe before (Germany), I recently heard of blacks going over to places such as Russia and experiencing ALOT of hardship due to a host of factors such as discrimination/racism, as seen here and here in the article entitled AFRO-EUROPE: Black people in Russia - News round-up. It was perplexing to me to hear of how many blacks had experienced overwhelmingly large instances of being treated as oddities/mistreated when they arrived in Moscow/other places of Russia....and this really bothered me. Other places for review can be found here , here , and here at either AFRO-EUROPE: Should Black people travel to Russia? or AFRO-EUROPE: Russia: Afro Russians Discuss Discrimination.

On other news reports, one can go here to the following:

• Asylum in Bardak
• African Immigrants Face Adversity in Russia
• Bitter, Broke, African Students Abandon Russia
• Russian Immigrants against Refugees from Africa
• An exotic subversive: Africa, Africans and the Soviet everyday
• BBC News - Russia faces major hurdles before 2018 World Cup
• The Black Community in Russia-Faring Poorly « The Walrus and the Carpenter
  
  
  
  
• Afrodescendants d'Amérique Latine et des Caraibes-For Russian Blacks, Obama Visit Stirs Special Interest

For video coverage:

People & Power - Black Russian - 24 Mar - Part 1​

People & Power - Black Russian - 24 Mar - Part 2​

Racism in Russia​

Black Russians Trailer - TWN

Xenophobia in Russia - how safe is Moscow for foreigners?​

StreetLife in Moscow — Story of an African Migrant
​

There is actually a documentary that was made on the issue entitled "Black Russians", which is a feature length documentary that investigates the lives of contemporary Afro-Russians aged 10 to 65, born and raised in Soviet Russia. Their experiences chronicle two ideological currents that have shaped major international events in the twentieth century: race and communism. Intimate interviews with a poet, a film producer, a reggae artist, a businessman and others, all Black and all Russian, were used to guide through this story of promise and non-discrimination. Some of the archive images revealed rarely seen footage of Black political leaders in the Soviet Union, like Paul Robeson, Kwame Nkruma and Angela Davis.

The purpose of the documentary was to show how more than a decade after the 'fall of communism' a new Russia struggles to steady itself in the wave of nationalism from within and the pressures of global capitalism from without. It was interesting to see how "Black Russians" constructs a in-depth/unique personal account of the effects of political issues such as migration, identity and loss on a minority community in the vast remains of the Soviet Union.

From what I found, attitudes towards African people were generally neutral during the Soviet Union, because of its internationalist agenda. African students (as well as other foreign students) were placed in many higher education institutions throughout the country, most famously at Peoples' Friendship University of Russia, then known as the Patrice Lumumba Peoples' Friendship University, after the Congolese revolutionary and prime minister Patrice Lumumba. However, that has all changed. A recent survey, Moscow Protestant Chaplaincy found that over half of Africans in Moscow had been physically attacked in the past---as seen here in Report on Racial Violence and Harassmen..and it has gotten worse ever since. After the collapse of the Soviet Union racism and xenophobic sentiments increased in the modern Russian state, particularly, due to economic hardship, mass immigration and falling birth rates amongst Slavic Russians. It seems that Afro-Russians are subjected to threats and violence on the part of ultra-nationalists and white power skinheads and there have been complaints on not many things being done in response to that.


Seeing the accounts of other blacks in Russia, I was a bit shocked to hear of what was occurring. What surprised me more than this, however, was that I really couldn't find anything on the Russian Orthodox church seeming to speak out against it.

If anyone has any information that could aid me, I'd appreciate it....for perhaps I've not been looking in the right places, but if there isn't much info out there, it would be very odd to consider.

In stating what I said, I do not mean to give the impression that I do not respect what has occurred within the Russian Orthodox church over the years. Although I've never been in the Russian Orthodox church, it has been fascianting seeing some of the history behind it and the actions of it as well. I had first come across it growing up when reading of books such as "God Smuggler" (as seen here and here), discussing the stories of Andrew van der Bijl, a Dutchman more widely known as Brother Andrew, who was one missionary joining with many others to smuggle bibles behind the Iron Curtain to churches (Russian Orthodoxy being included among them) when there was a great attempt by the state to either crush the church or control it.

And many other things I learned about the Russian Orthodox church I discovered after researching some of the history behind the church in Russia--and seeing the many ways that it seemed to be friction between them and other Protestant movements in regards to evangelism. For reference, one can go either here, here, here, here , here or here. What I discovered was that the Orthodox church in Russia has is very longstanding and it can be a bit of a territory dispute of others going to something that doesn't have "roots" in the land. The Communist regime, through its official disapproval, had effectively shut down the Russian Orthodox Church. The Church, integral to Tsarist Russia’s identity for 1,000 years, was largely driven underground as churches were bulldozed and monasteries converted to army barracks. While some churches defiantly remained open, they were considered a “cult” by the ruling authorities. It was interesting to see how the Russian Orthodox Church has played a powerful role in post-Soviet society’s efforts to reassess and reclaim the pre-revolutionary past – it has canonised Tsar Nicholas II, rebuilt ruined monuments, researched and commemorated Christians persecuted by the Soviet regime. The revival of its monasteries is one of the most astonishing aspects of this process since monasteries and convents are reclaiming – or recreating – the physical and spiritual fabric of their pasts.

After 75 years of oppression, millions of Russians leapt at the opportunity to rebuild Russian Orthodox churches, get baptized, and show their faith publicly....but it is interesting to see the reaction by Russian Orthodox and what appears to be a fiercer battle than that fought with the Communists when examining the friction between the long-repressed Russian Orthodox Church and a host of groups seeking to evangelize the Russian people.

Although I was a bit shocked to see how the Russian Orthodox Church views the evangelical churches as competitors...and they often side with the government trying to limit evangelical church growth, I do believe there is much to be said on the legitimacy of the Orthodox attempt to reclaim the spiritual and moral heart of the Russian people and to retain their adherence in a new, pluralistic world where many Christians and followers of other traditions seek the right to establish themselves.

Nonetheless, if there has not been any attempt to speak out against the acts of racism that've occurred amongst many blacks/minorities within Russia (from what I've seen thus far), I'd greatly struggle with that in light of the history of what the church has had to go through with oppression. I know that others have often noted that the Russian Orthodox church within Russia is not something that is entirely seperate from Nationalism and that the majority of those apart of it are not visibly impacted by Christ as much as they are connected to it due to it being apart of their cultural heritage. If that is the case, then I would not be surprised to see a lack of response to the issue of blacks being discriminated in Russia since there have been complaints about the Russian government itself being very lax in its treatment of the issue/the populace at large not really being concerned with the ways that blacks have been treated and what seems to be a bit of silence by many claiming to be Orthodox---and more on Orthodoxy tied to nationalism (As well as the subject pertaining to how many parts of Russian Orthodox are not ethnically considerate...as discussed here and here in threads such as #7 ).

Sincerly, I'd would very thankful if any other Orthodox members would be able/willing to help me on the matter

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I was hoping to investigate the city of Moscow and see its people. The culture seems to be a very fascinating one for a myriad of reasons--and in doing previous research on the culture, I was amazed to see/witness the diverse history that it possessed. Although I've never been one for the col weather, I think it's something that'd be worth getting used to for the sake of enjoying the experience of seeing Russian culture---and I'd especially like to go over there for the purpose of investigating what the Russian Orthodox Church is like over there.

Wanted to note for any Orthodox interested, as it concerns humor, that it is interesting to see the ways that many aspects of Russia have been romanticized to often appear as if life in that world is a musical and always fun. If anyone remembers the animated movie "Anastasia" from 1997, one will immediately know what I'm talking about:

• Anastasia (part 1)

That all aside, some of the dance styles are awesome...are sheer beauty, be it the ones involving Russian Folk dances or even the ones that had in "Dance Revolution"


01 USSR Russian folk dance Kalinka

Cossack dances (1/5)

Boney M. - Rasputin (just dance 2) [WII]

​

 

[buzuxi02]

There is discrimination wherever you go. The belief in a utopia where every social group live side by side is a myth. Thats why the natural progression of humanity is that various tribes organize themselves within a designated boundary. In other words the majority of societies do not recognize discrimination as something bad but as a way for self preservation. Notice how people tend to be against globalization.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

this thread is setting records for the sheer amount of Youtube links per page...:o

 

[Gxg (G²)]

this thread is setting records for the sheer amount of Youtube links per page...:o

Sincerly, if you do not like a YouTube link or a set of them, there's always the freedom to skip over it and deal with the rest of what the OP was discussing about. There's plenty of historical information on the issue of how blacks have been treated in Russia apart from the YouTube clips, even though they are beneficial since they do give first-hand accounts.

All of that said... What is asked is that there'd be respect in choosing to make commentary related to the OP Topic--and the focus of this thread is seeing what RUssian Orthodoxy has said on the situation of blacks in Russian being greatly mistreated by the populace. IMHO, One could have dealt with that topic without any jokes or mock commentary (as it seems) on YouTube--and if it is not desired to deal with the OP Topic respectfully, I'd ask that things simply be left alone. When I hear about blacks being ganged up/beaten in public by others and no responses given to end it significantly...or others being killed in the streets and called a myriad of demeaning names while told that they aren't welcome in Russia...that is not something I take lightly nor is it something where I believe we are not to be grieved by and consider how the world of Christendom impacts that.


Again, the main focus of the OP is simply discovering what Russian Orthodoxy in Russia has to say about the treatment of blacks within the country since the church itself is the largest religious institution within Russia and holds the most influence due to its backing by the State --and I'd like to know where/how get information on that if anything has been said. In the event that nothing has been said and there seems to be ignoral of the mistreatment that Afro-Russians have discussed and the media has brought to attention, then the focus of the thread is meant to be upon discussing why it may be that the Russian Orthodox church may not be very vocal on the issue.

Whether it is the case that you aren't really concerned with ethnic/racial issues within the Church or simply don't wish to engage material has alot of info/media in it (in light of the YouTube comment in it), I don't know. But ultimately, if you or others do not wish to engage with the OP Topic, that's more than fine with me. All I'd ask is that it'd not be spoken of flippantly here since it's a serious issue and I'd like some serious answers to it from other Orthodox brothers/sisters. To be clear, what's being discussed here isn't necessarily new in all aspects since there has been discussion apparently on the subject pertaining to how many parts of Russian Orthodox are not ethnically considerate...as discussed by other Orthodox posters here and here in threads such as #7 .

 

[Gxg (G²)]

There is discrimination wherever you go. The belief in a utopia where every social group live side by side is a myth. Thats why the natural progression of humanity is that various tribes organize themselves within a designated boundary. In other words the majority of societies do not recognize discrimination as something bad but as a way for self preservation. Notice how people tend to be against globalization.

Shalom and thank you for sharing the thoughts.

To be clear, no one (as far as the OP is concerned) denies that discrimination will occur wherever one may arrive when a group showing up is considered to be the minority within a majority. I don't think one has to believe in Utopia in order to believe that groups can get alone/not have violence toward one another....as the argument of believing in "utopia" as a myth was also brought up within U.S history during the era of Jim Crow/"colored only" restrooms---and others such as Martin Luther King and others marching with him (including others within the Orthodox church such as Archbishop Iakovos /the efforts he made with King) stood against it to show that whites/blacks could get along and be treated fairly.

Even though there's still problems and it's not "perfect", many things have drastically improved since the Civil Rights era in the U.S between the two groups and things are much more multicultural.


That all said, the focus of the OP was specifically on discussing if the Russian Orthodox Church has said anything on the subject of blacks being greatly mistreated in Russia...in light of what the church is to represent and how it's to go against culture when it conflicts with the scriptures. If the church went in favor of discrimination, that would be a tragedy and a repeat of what has occurred before in history when the Church didn't do as it was commanded by the Lord to do. As it stands, it seems the Church itself was meant to be global and never for support of discrimination at any point...nor silent. It was because of silence that the CHurch allowed Jim Crow to occur in the U.S context for as long as it did--saying that was just how things were rather than speaking out/saying how they were meant to be, a city on a Hill. And if it could happen for those in the U.S, I'd think that Russia would be no different.

On a side note, with globalization, I think it's interesting to see where many have noted how it seems that the Russian Orthodox church in Russia has been essentially in support of globalization when considering the way that it has worked with the Russian State/been given considerable power on a host of levels. As said in one research article concerning Religion's Growing Influence in International Politics:

Orthodox Christianity is enjoying a revival after 70 years of communist suppression. Few have appreciated the depth of the damage caused first by communism and then by corruption in the post-Soviet era -- they undermined trust, integrity, and accountability, as well as moral and cultural values, in the country

The Russian Orthodox Church is now aiming to restore these values and overcome modernization's atomizing effects on post-Soviet Russian society. According to a 2004 study by the Kennan Institute, the Orthodox Church is Russia's second most trusted institution, behind the presidency, with far greater credibility than the media, the police, the
army, or the overall government.​

It has formed an alliance around these goals with fellow religious organizations, a partnership that has the potential to be an important part of civil society. Yet Russians must still determine what freedom of religion means for a country that is predominantly Orthodox. A debate is also taking place within and outside the Orthodox Church itself over the nature of human rights -- whether they are consistent with Orthodoxy or are cultural imports from the West -- and their appropriate place in modern Russia​

The Orthodox Church's role is especially crucial given that cultural and political power seem intertwined in modern Russia. The church's attempt to unify its domestic and overseas hierarchies in the wake of Soviet rule and its increasingly close relationship with the Russian state have established a type of Russian Orthodox identity politics.​

The Moscow Patriarchate of the Russian Orthodox Church is one of a number of "autocephalous" (literally, "selfheaded,"
meaning "independent") churches within Orthodoxy, and it sees the reunification of the church's various branches as an important step in spreading the patriarchate's influence worldwide. The Russian state, meanwhile, views reunification as a means to boost ties between Russia proper and the Russian diaspora as part of its quest to regain global power. Although the Orthodox Church claims that it has no wish to serve as an organ of the state, its relationship with the Russian government will play a major role in Russia's near-term future.​

​

In regards to the original post, it is no small issue that the State of Russia has had a sharp increase in the cases of xenophobia. In regards to the OP, as said best elsewhere in one news report:

​

Last week, thousands of far-right nationalists and neo-Nazis marched through Moscow calling for Russians to “take backRussia,” and chanting racist slogans. The so-called “Russian March” has taken place every year since 2005 on a national holiday created to replace celebrations of the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution. It is accompanied by smaller marches in other cities.

Over the past 2 decades, violently xenophobic groups have grown. The chaos that followed the collapse of the Soviet Union caused uncertainty and insecurity about Russia’s place in the world, and resentment about the perceived threat of immigration. The groups have denounced the influx of migrants from the Caucuses and Central Asian countries that once formed part of the Soviet Union, and non-Slavs and anti-racism activists have been beaten and killed.


The UK Government’s Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) warns visitors of Afro-Caribbean and Asian descent to take extra care in Russia because of the risk of racially motivated attacks. Whilst FCO travel advice can be a little alarmist, this does demonstrate the presence of a very real problem.

The SOVA Centre, a Russian NGO, documents racist and xenophobic incidents in Russia.It reports that up until September, at least 16 people had been killed in racist attacks in 2011, with 90 injured and seven people receiving death threats. The attacks were recorded in 25 regions of the country, with seven killed and 16 injured in Moscow. In addition, the organisation describes numerous instances of xenophobic vandalism, usually against non-Russian Orthodox religious buildings. These figures are extremely worrying but are actually lower than 2010, when 37 people were murdered and 368 injured.

....It’s worth noting that there has been some backlash, and many Slavic Russians have taken part in anti-racism demonstrations and campaigns, often risking their own safety in doing so. In addition, a number of foreign nationals in Russiahave written extensively on life there and reflected positively on their experiences. Jonathan Fianu, a British entrepreneur, has launched an impassioned defence of the country as a home for migrants, urging us to look beyond the stereotypes.

It’s also worth reminding ourselves that EDL marches in English towns and cities are demonstrative of the growth of ultra-right movements throughout Europe and current allegations involving Liverpool’s Luis Suarez andEnglandcaptain John Terry have shown that even in 2011, the English Premier League cannot be complacent.

What’s clear however, is that what’s happening in Russiais more deeply entrenched and even more sinister. It’s an impossible thing to accurately judge but Alexander Verkhovsky, the director of the SOVA Centre has made the alarming claim that inRussia, “more than 50% believe that ethnic minorities should be limited or even expelled from their region.” The violent and abusive actions of a small minority appear to be symptomatic of something more widespread. In addition, the voices that speak out against racism inRussia are not loud enough, and are often intimidated into silence

​

As it concerns Russian Orthodoxy, with the significant amount of power that Russian Orthodox Church has with the State, I'd be very surprised to see that there was absolutely no mention of rebuke/correction in regards to the increasing amount of terrorism toward Afro-Russians over the yearrs. However, as I've never been involved with the Russian Orthodox Church and don't know fully what is discussed in the services in Moscow (or other parts of Russia), I'm not able to be certain on what the Church has done to address that issue. All of that said, if the Russian Orthodox church has said anything on the subject of the mistreat of Afro-Russians...and if others here who're Orthodox/ more aware of all of its inner workings know of where more info could be found on its stances toward the treatment of blacks, I'd greatly appreciate it

 

[Trying_to_be_Orthodox]

@Easy G
I suppose ROC doesnt say something serious about treatments of Blacks in Russia, because here is no so big problem with it in Russia nowadays.

 

[Trying_to_be_Orthodox]

@Easy G
in addition:
about "...Russia has had a sharp increase in the cases of xenophobia..." - Lol. Its just small answer on ethnic terror which is organised also with big help of goverment.

 

[simonpeter]

Russia has more neo-nazis than any other country. Avoid it completely. Even the police/govt are fine with xenophobia and encourage it so as to divert public attention from economic issues.

 

[Trying_to_be_Orthodox]

@Simonpeter
has more neo-nazis than any other country...- How have you count esp. in comparison with other countries?

 

[aussieoldcatholic]

well I'm Ukrainian and involved with both the ukie and Russian community here in Brisbane, and ive gota say you'll never get more racist people than you will slavs (my family included, love them to bit but my grandparents said things like "black people are black cause they don't wash etc) so Id say there is plenty of racism within both Eastern Orthodoxy and Slavic forms of Eastern Catholicism....Im sure there are non-racist slavs but its always the racist slavs that stick out the most

 

[rusmeister]

I have to object to statements like "racism within eastern Orthodoxy". I live here in Russia and I'd say that I have a better view up-close and personal than most.

Yes there are widespread attitudes that resent colored people - but it is 98% against perceived encroachment and imposition of Caucasian and Central Asian cultures. The other 2% is against blacks, who do experience racism - only the Church teaches against it - not by talking about racism as such, but by teaching that we must love our neighbor, whoever he is.

There can even be racist Orthodox Christians, and they, like the rest of us, have been broken by the Fall. But their attitudes are not supported by the Church. The Church stands against sin in general. We don't generally take special time out to target special sins. The stands against violence, haterd, pride and so forth are consistent. People in the Church who try to live the Christian life quickly come to the realization of the inconsistency of racism and Orthodoxy.

 

[buzuxi02]

Racism is a natural aspect of humanity, people need to get used to it. I highly doubt theres much reaction of prejudice against black people in Russia since there arent that many. Jews have it much worse.

I know a black person who cant stand cubans because of a racist altercation with them when he vacationed in Miami. I met a jewish student who lived in Australia, liked it but was uneasy about antisemitic attitudes and swastikas drawn all over the place. I worked with an El Salvadorean who said he witnesses more rascism in El Salavador between light skinned and dark skinned Salavadoreans. Some whites believe african attitudes towards albinos are racist.
Greeks still find it important to know which part of greece your from remnants from the day of the city states, and if they dont like your parts they ridicule you or if your from Pontus your just a stupid idiot. Its common for greeks to refer to you by your nationality or race, like saying "o spaniolos, o mavros, o tourkos, o kritikos, h evraia, yet many in todays oversensitive society find it bigoted.

The pope calls America "the experiment" because of how unnatural it is to mix all different races into one house (and that it will probably fail). If you dont like racism take it up with God for mixing the languages and dispersing the peoples from the tower of Babel.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Racism is a natural aspect of humanity, people need to get used to it. .

Racism being natural to humanity is expected, as it's apart of the process of living out the Fall which impacts all. Getting used to it in the form of acceptance/tolerance, however, is something that neither the scriptures nor the early church were ever accepting of...for we are to be against what comes "naturally" whenever it goes directly counter to the culture of God.

I highly doubt theres much reaction of prejudice against black people in Russia since there arent that many.

Even if it is a small number, the reality is that there is significant targeting against blacks by many and it's still an issue. If a group is smaller than others and is being mistreated, that'd make a lack of reaction reflective of a lack of concern for all...and that STILL doesn't go well or look good since (as Martin Luther King said best), "Injustice Anywhere is a Threat to Justice Everywhere!"

Jews have it much worse.

All groups suffer extremely and others have had it just as bad as Jews, be it the Native Americans or blacks or Palestinians and many others. Of course, for those Jews in Russia, it has been a very big issue with the racism that they've encountered. The Russian Jewish community is truly one of the most beautiful communities I've ever witnessed...and seeing their stories is amazing.

• The Revolution of 1905 and Russia's Jews
• Beyond the Pale: The History of Jews in Russia
• The Russian Jews: Extermination or emancipation?
• The Jewish Role in the Bolshevik Revolution and Russia's Early

Since the Jews, up to the present time, tended to isolate themselves and were often forced to be isolated rather than assimulating into the culture the way other groups did, and were always "small" population wise, I'm wondering if the persecution that has occured through pograms and the holocaust took out a larger population (similar to that of the Native Americans) than African groups. ...even though both Native Americans/Africans suffered greatly through systematic targeting and elimination in a myriad of ways.

I know a black person who cant stand cubans because of a racist altercation with them when he vacationed in Miami.

There's indeed ALOT of racism that can occur between Cubans/blacks, although within Hispanic culture, it's more so based upon complexion since the system of power in Cuba favors those who were of lighter skin/white and those Cubans who were darker were second-class. It's not really hidden and others who're Dark Cubans have often noted how people may think all Cubans are the same when they're more diverse than others realize.

I met a jewish student who lived in Australia, liked it but was uneasy about antisemitic attitudes and swastikas drawn all over the place.

Can't blame him, specifically if it turns out that where he was at involved others wishing to harm his life and no one...be it the local police or the church surrounding him...was willing to do something on it.

I worked with an El Salvadorean who said he witnesses more rascism in El Salavador between light skinned and dark skinned Salavadoreans.

If interested, Historian Henry Louis Gates actually made an excellent series on such at PBS entitled"Black in Latin America" where he went through many differing countries (including El Salvador, from what I recalled) and discussing that very issue. Much of it is based upon the system of color ranking that was set up by the Spainards during their time conquering the New World, as they would rate others with lighter complexion as having greater rights. Being a Black hispanic myself (i.e Black-Hispanic specifically from Panama), it was always interesting to see how others would react if discussion on such issues did occur...and whenever people get shocked hearing of Hispanics/Blacks having relationships, I laugh seeing how much others aren't aware of the Mosaics around the world.

Some whites believe african attitudes towards albinos are racist.

Reverse Racism is the better term for it. What you said reminded me of something one of my South African friends would always bring up. For he would say that it interested him to see how often people discussed the plight of "African-Americans" and yet for him, as a South African, he'd say "Wouldn't I qualify as well?"

Of course, in South Africa, the ways that Racism has affected the culture are similar and yet distinct from the U.S. Some of the streotypes that people in the U.S. would give toward blacks when saying they're similar to Africans would also be insulting toward South Africans who share some of those similarities...and yet, for many white South Africans, they'd be similar to whites in the U.S in the ways that they didn't like those who were black.

Moreover, what's fascinating is that the term African-American is interchangeable with black. For in the eyes of many native-born blacks and African immigrants, it isn’t...especially as seen in the constant tensions between African-Americans and non U.S.-born Africans. For more information, here are some basic ones that you could consider going online/investigating--as one can type in the title/name in the Search Box/Engine and get there for more research:

• " Counting the New African Community in the U.S" ( //www.ethiopianreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16295#p88670 )

• "The rift between African Americans and Africans" ( //www.thegrio.com/2009/07/african-americans-are-ignorant-about-africa.php )

• "Black, but not like me: African-Americans and African immigrants often have uneasy bond" ( //news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=160650 ).

• "Continental divide separates Africans, African-Americans..." ( //www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/14/africans.in.america/index.html?iref=allsearch )

• "Uncommon ground: across the country, Africans and African-Americans still struggle to come together" ( //findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_9_63/ai_n27499045/ )

Greeks still find it important to know which part of greece your from remnants from the day of the city states, and if they dont like your parts they ridicule you or if your from Pontus your just a stupid idiot. Its common for greeks to refer to you by your nationality or race, like saying "o spaniolos, o mavros, o tourkos, o kritikos, h evraia, yet many in todays oversensitive society find it bigoted.

Others may disagree..but IMHO, referring to someone by their nationality or ethnicity isn't a racist issue. When the referencing is used in a demeaning way, such as saying someone's ugly due to their ethnicity or that others are less valuable because of their nationality and other similar forms (including mocking), that's when it becomes an issue.

And for believers, the standards are high.

The pope calls America "the experiment" because of how unnatural it is to mix all different races into one house (and that it will probably fail).

I'd tend to think it has been a very successful experiment in many ways and has contributed to many of the things done by the U.S that other nations have not been able to experience.

If you dont like racism take it up with God for mixing the languages and dispersing the peoples from the tower of Babel

IMHO, it's not racisim to have a mixture of languages, nor was it racism to disperse people. What occurred there was something very unique.

Genesis 11

The Tower of Babel

1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward,[a] they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.

3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world.




​

For at the Tower of Babel, a city that was the antithesis of what God intended when He created the world, the Lord came down and disrupting a civilization in which there was originally one language for the entire world. The opening description in Genesis 11:1 with the whole world having one language indicates that the present episode was not placed chronologically after the events narrated in Genesis 10, which specifically mentions nations and languages (Genesis 10:20, Genesis 10:31-32, etc). .....and the episode with Babel may have occurred during the broad period covered in Genesis 10, especially if linked to the naming of Peleg in Genesis 10:25. With Babel, God saw that the Babel enterprise was all about human independence and self-sufficiency apart from God.....for the builders believed that they had no need of God. Their technology and social unity gave them confidence in their own ability, and thery had high aspirations in constructing a tower in the heavens. Counter to God's plan that people should fill the earth (e.g Genesis 1:22, Genesis 1:28, Genesis 9:1-7), the city building project was designed to prevent the population from being dispersed over the face of the whole earth.

God intervened by confusing the languages...and by showing God's continued interest in his creatures, God set the setting for the call of Abram out of this very region that Babel was set up in, that he could be a vehicle of blessing to the whole world. Ironically, in the age of the Spirit given to all men because of Christ, its interesting that in Acts 2:1-12, the church came together in the upper room and experienced what happened before the Tower of Babel incident. For there were people who literally spoke in other languages--a muraculous attention-getter for the international crowd gathered in town for the feastt....and all nationalities represented recognized their own languages being spoken, showing the power and presence of the Holy Spirit. and showing how Christianity is not limited to any race or group of people. The Spirit gave the people in Acts 2 utterance, indicating that the Holy Spirit was directing the syllables they spoke. Speaking in tongues in this way also seems to be the phenomenon experienced by those at Cornelius's house (Acts 10:45-46) and the disciples of John at Ephesus (John 19:6). ....all of it being based in the Holy Spirit (I Corinthians 12:10, I Corinthians 12:29-30, I Corinthians 14:2) and showing how what God always intended is for universal language/comprehension of others in their own tongues to occur.



Outside of that, IMHO, there seem to be other instances within scripture discusses the subject of ethnicity as being significant. Specifically, in the Book of Acts, we see the first Christian churches coming to terms with this very issue even though ethnic and theological issues were intertwined in that context. There were Greek-speaking widows who felt that they were being treated as outsiders and not being given a fair shake...but the widows’ concerns were immediately addressed (Acts 6:1-3). And what we also see is how the gospel itself enabled the early Church to overcome its potential for racism.

In obedience to Christ (Acts 1:9), it took the gospel to—of all people—the Samaritans who were religiously deviant from the Jews and with whom Jews had had uneasy, strained relations for a thousand years. And Peter was also to learn personally how hard it is to go beyond one’s own group (Acts 10:9-48). Scripture not only identifies race and ethnicity as factors, but John hints at prejudice concerning Jesus in John 1:46, "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?" Furthermore, Jesus intentionally offends ethnic and racial sensibilities with both the Samaritan woman at the well (John 4) and the Parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10). Why go to so much trouble to emphasize their ethnicity if it does not matter?

Luke illustrates the coming of the Spirit with diverse expressions of tongues (Acts 2), even identifying the languages being spoken. And a glimpse of eternity in Revelation shows that men and women from every tongue, tribe, and nation make up the choir of eternal praise (Rev. 7:9). If the writers of Scripture take notice of ethnicity, so should we.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I have to object to statements like "racism within eastern Orthodoxy". I live here in Russia and I'd say that I have a better view up-close and personal than most.
.

Cool to know of your living in Russia.

Yes there are widespread attitudes that resent colored people - but it is 98% against perceived encroachment and imposition of Caucasian and Central Asian cultures.

Would you happen to have any references for this or study material (in the form of news coverage) that could be investigated? If so, that'd be appreciated. On the subject, I know that migration has become a significant issue in Russian culture and the issue of nationalism is the root behind many of the hostilities. Migratory experiences when it comes to displacment are an interesting phenomenon that many researchers have sought to study--and for more, one can go here or here .

The other 2% is against blacks, who do experience racism - only the Church teaches against it - not by talking about racism as such, but by teaching that we must love our neighbor, whoever he is.

Is it more of a covert methodology of indirectly speaking against the racism than an overt one of addressing the subject by name? If that's what you're conveying (if I heard/understood you correctly), that's interesting. Although the indirect methodology can be effective since discussing loving one's neighbor is the heart of the issue/"root disease", it is intriguing (IMHO) in light of others within Orthodoxy that I was able to come across who had issues of racism within their local communities and spoke more directly on it. Of course, in what they said, the centrality of the message was that the basis of not mistreating others was Love for our neighbor...and the reference to specific groups was so that there'd be no uncertainty as to who it was that was being mistreated since many people can work off of vaugeness if there's no specifics. Within Coptic Orthodoxy (from what I've witnessed), this has been the case when it comes to naming those who do wrong and letting the church know how it is that they're supposed to love them--and the same has come up with other Orthodox camps when noting the history of a mistreated group they're seeking to reach out to/alerting others in the parish of what has occurred so that there'd not be any ignorance of what is being encountered when others may have concerns.

And as mentioned earlier, the example of Archbishop Iakovos comes directly to mind in light of his giving specific mention to what was occurring for minorities within the U.S when he chose to get involved in the civil rights movement--despite ALOT of tension that it caused amongst others within Orthodoxy for working with Protestants and wanting to keep things the way they were just as many other churches did when saying King's actions were harming the church by causing others to join together rather than remain seperate. If you'd like some more specific examples of what I'm having in mind, it would not be a problem to give them out when I have more time later in the day..

There can even be racist Orthodox Christians, and they, like the rest of us, have been broken by the Fall. But their attitudes are not supported by the Church. The Church stands against sin in general. We don't generally take special time out to target special sins

Got ya. On the subject of there even being racist Orthodox Christians, it'd be no different than what has occurred historically when other parts of Christendom had others in the church who struggled. Some say that Peter (based on Acts 10-11 and Galatians 5) had a bit of a struggle with racism, despite how much of a pillar he was...so it's not a surprise to see others in the church who may struggle as well.

The stands against violence, haterd, pride and so forth are consistent. People in the Church who try to live the Christian life quickly come to the realization of the inconsistency of racism and Orthodoxy

Indeed. Anyone saying that Orthodoxy and racism are meant to go together, IMHO, wouldn't understand what it means to be Orthodox.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Russia has more neo-nazis than any other country. Avoid it completely. Even the police/govt are fine with xenophobia and encourage it so as to divert public attention from economic issues.

That's one of the things I've heard from many who advocate for black minorities to not go to the nation. The reports in the news of where govertment officials have said openly that they don't want a mixture to occur are still rather surprising to hear, in light of what communist Russian noted throughout its existence when saying how it hated racism toward blacks during the era when the U.S seemed to support it. And in light of how often it was Soviet Russia that often supported black liberation movements, the switch in emphasis within Russia is perplexing.

Back in the 1970s when the Soviet Union was interested in expanding its sphere of influence in African countries, in addition to backing African freedom movements, it brought many African students to study at Russian universities, most notably Patrice Lumumba (as mentioned earlier). As many black students stayed in the Soviet Union because of marriage, they had children on their own or with Russians. Some American blacks also immigrated to the Soviet Union because they saw it as more equal than the United States before civil rights. But the shift has caused many to reconsider if it's even worth it to remain..

It is interesting to see the reasons behind why blacks and mixed-race citizens of Russia have experienced tremendous amounts of hostility and racism, as it has been noted that it was partially because Africans in Russia are so extremely rare and often seen as exotica. As another said best in the article from Washington Post entitled Russia's Black Community | Society | Russia Now: In-Depth ...:

But black skin remains extremely rare in Russia. One estimate says that there are between 40,000 and 70,000 Russians of full or mixed-African heritage. That distinction has singled many black Russians out for treatment that they say swings between curiosity, at best, and open hostility, at worst.


Grigory Siyatinda, an actor at the Sovremennik Theater in Moscow, grew up as the only black man in his hometown of Tyumen in the 1970s. His experience was that of an object of fascination in an isolated Soviet society where foreigners, and especially black foreigners, were exotic. “How to put it? It wasn’t racism, what I experienced during my childhood in Tyumen,” Siyatinda says. “I was the only black person in Tyumen — Tyumen is a Siberian city and there were no black-skinned people at all. No one had ever seen one. That’s why there was simply this heightened curiosity toward me. It was heightened so much at times that it crossed over the borders of tact.


​

I do hope that things change in the future...but until they do, I can't help but say there is a certain level that I have that makes me feel a bit uneasy with visiting Russia anytime soon.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I'm Ukrainian and involved with both the ukie and Russian community here in Brisbane, and ive gota say you'll never get more racist people than you will slavs (my family included, love them to bit but my grandparents said things like "black people are black cause they don't wash etc) so Id say there is plenty of racism within both Eastern Orthodoxy and Slavic forms of Eastern Catholicism....Im sure there are non-racist slavs but its always the racist slavs that stick out the most

Was not aware of this, though many thanks for sharing. I'm glad that it is not all slavs--and I'd even say not all Slavic forms as in everyone around the world--that are struggling with racist overtones. But for those that do, I do find it a pity. If I may ask, what has been said in response if/when you've spoken to your family and others on the subject? What were the scriptures that they use to support the ideologies --if there were scriptures used, that is?

 

[MrJim]

In my early days I was what is now called a "white nationalist"~I still keep an eye on these folks; probably the biggest WN forum out there is Stormfront. In their "Theology" forum under "Traditional Christianity" Orthodoxy appears to be the far favorite brand of faith. One thread in their "stickies" is an Orthodox Thread Compilation; I counted over 70 threads, many with similar topics that are discussed here. And that thread was from 2009 and hasn't been updated, there are other EO threads...still a majority of WNs of religious faith would be Christian Identity or pagans (Norse mythology).

No I won't post links to the site...hunt it yourself for verification.

<<I poke around in there 3X-4X times a year for attitude checks, reminds me how far I've come whereas being in TAW reminds me of how far I have to go>>

 

[Gxg (G²)]

In my early days I was what is now called a "white nationalist"

Seriously? Would've never considered you as such from what I was able to follow in your posting--but then again, "early days" is the key word

~I still keep an eye on these folks; probably the biggest WN forum out there is Stormfront. In their "Theology" forum under "Traditional Christianity" Orthodoxy appears to be the far favorite brand of faith. One thread in their "stickies" is an Orthodox Thread Compilation; I counted over 70 threads, many with similar topics that are discussed here. And that thread was from 2009 and hasn't been updated, there are other EO threads...still a majority of WNs of religious faith would be Christian Identity or pagans (Norse mythology).


No I won't post links to the site...hunt it yourself for verification.

Interesting. I hope the threads aren't ones demeaning all aspects of EO culture, though I wouldn't be surprised. I couldn't find the Theology section, though I did investigate the section with "Stormfront Russia Nationalism" and tripped out in a bad way.

Makes you want to speak to people in person/not really be charitable, if you understand what I mean..and I'm surprised to see that much hate in the name of reason. When I have time, I may try to go/investigate what they've said in regards to the Theology issue you talked about. And to be clear, when you say similar topics are discussed there as here, are you saying they discuss/support things the OP is speaking against (in regards to mistreatment of Afro-Russians and silence occurring in many parts---or wondering what Russian Orthodoxy has to say on it)?

<<I poke around in there 3X-4X times a year for attitude checks, reminds me how far I've come whereas being in TAW reminds me of how far I have to go>>

Real..

 

[inconsequential]

I can understand nationalism in some circumstances because some countries ARE better than others when it comes to culture, beliefs, etc. But racism just doesn't compute for me. Heck, even a Great Dane and a Chihuahua recognize they are the same species.

Sorry, not trying to derail, just subscribing by indicating my confusion with the whole concept.