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Did Noah's flood cover the whole earth including all the mountains with water?

TasManOfGod

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It is useless to refer to a document that begins with:
The Geological Society of America recognizes that the evolution of life stands as one of the central concepts of modem science.
and expect to get an unbiased view from it.
Please try something else to proove that the question I ask has been considered
 
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Assyrian

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It is useless to refer to a document that begins with:
The Geological Society of America recognizes that the evolution of life stands as one of the central concepts of modem science.
and expect to get an unbiased view from it.
Please try something else to proove that the question I ask has been considered
So only organisations who reject evolution are unbiased?
 
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TasManOfGod

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If commercial geologists could find more fossil fuel by interpreting the rock record as having resulted from a single flood or otherwise encompassing no more than a few thousand years, they would surely accept this unconventional view,

There is no doubt in my mind that the tecnology that commercial geologists use would be equally successful at finding deposits irrespective of whatever theory they may hold as it how it got there.
My question did not revolve around finding stuff but rather how the stuff got there in the first place
 
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Assyrian

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No
Only organisation that have no pre-conceived ideas are unbiased
So presumably you recognise creationist organisations as biased?

However science has a track record of accepting new ideas when the evidence backs it up, so it is possible to be both unbiased and have come to an objective conclusion about the evidence. Such objective examination of the evidence is not possible in organisations like Answers in Genesis whose members have all had to sign statements of faith committing themselves to young earth creationism and to reject any evidence that contradicts their interpretation of Genesis.
The AiG Statement of Faith - Answers in Genesis
1 Scripture teaches a recent origin for man and the whole creation, spanning approximately 4,000 years from creation to Christ.
...
6 By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information.
 
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Assyrian

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On the contrary science has a track record of disregarding evidence when it doesn't line up with it's pre-conceived ideas.
Then why did they accept relativity which contradicted Newton and sounded utterly bizarre to a Newtonian, and all because evidence of star positions during an eclipse showed their light was bent by the suns gravity? Why accept the even more bizarre quantum mechanics which even Einstein hated? Evidence. Why accept evidence of the Big Bang which not only contradicted astronomy's previous steady state ideas, but also sounded like creationism to Atheists like Hoyle? Because the evidence supported it. Science does not reject the claims of creationism because it is biased, it rejects it because creationism cannot come up with any halfway decent evidence, while the age of the earth and evolution have been tested and confirmed time after time.
 
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TasManOfGod

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Then why did they accept relativity which contradicted Newton and sounded utterly bizarre to a Newtonian, and all because evidence of star positions during an eclipse showed their light was bent by the suns gravity? Why accept the even more bizarre quantum mechanics which even Einstein hated? Evidence. Why accept evidence of the Big Bang which not only contradicted astronomy's previous steady state ideas, but also sounded like creationism to Atheists like Hoyle? Because the evidence supported it. Science does not reject the claims of creationism because it is biased, it rejects it because creationism cannot come up with any halfway decent evidence, while the age of the earth and evolution have been tested and confirmed time after time.
You're joking of course
The big bang theory has long time been debunked but science wants to hold onto it because the only alternative is God
 
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Assyrian

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You're joking of course
The big bang theory has long time been debunked but science wants to hold onto it because the only alternative is God
There are certainly questions about it which is precisely why so much research is being done testing every aspect of the Big Bang and looking at alternative hypotheses. Not sure what you mean by 'the only alternative is God', or how that could even be tested. If you mean the only alternative is God created the universe 6000 years ago, then that has been tested and is completely wrong. What science wants to find out is when happened and when, as the universe came into existence. It doesn't matter to science if God did it all, that isn't going to change the events that happened.
 
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TasManOfGod

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There are certainly questions about it which is precisely why so much research is being done testing every aspect of the Big Bang and looking at alternative hypotheses. Not sure what you mean by 'the only alternative is God', or how that could even be tested. If you mean the only alternative is God created the universe 6000 years ago, then that has been tested and is completely wrong. What science wants to find out is when happened and when, as the universe came into existence. It doesn't matter to science if God did it all, that isn't going to change the events that happened.
There is one thing about creationists which sets us apart from scientists _we will never change our story. Perhaps the scientists will one day find out just how right we have always been (as they are beginning to discover now - bit by bit)
 
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Assyrian

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There is one thing about creationists which sets us apart from scientists _we will never change our story. Perhaps the scientists will one day find out just how right we have always been (as they are beginning to discover now - bit by bit)
Flat earthers and geocentrists don't change their story either, no matter what the evidence. It is what makes them pseudo sciences. It has been 1,500 years since Cosmas Indicopleustes claimed the church was following the doctrine of demons for accepting pagan Greek science instead of his Christian flat earth topography. In all the time since science has come round to realise just how right the flat earthers were. Nor, despite geocentrists refusing to change their story since Copernicus and Galileo, has science ever come round to realising how right they were and that the sun really does go round the earth.

What we see here is that accepting evolution doesn't make science biased, it can be an unbiased objective conclusion based on an honest assessment of the evidence as long as we know they would be willing to change assessment if another idea was shown even better supported by the evidence. On the other hand creationist organisations cannot give an unbiased assessment be cause they are committed to following creationism whatever the evidence.

The flat earth and geocentrist controversies show us something even more important. Evolution and the age of the earth aren't the first time Christians have been shaken when science contradicted their interpretation of scripture. It didn't mean science was challenging God or undermining their faith. It didn't men they needed to stand firm and keep claiming the science must be wrong. It just meant they had misunderstood what God was saying in scripture and how he was saying it. God hadn't made the world they way they thought he did.
 
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Papias

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Tasmanofgod wrote:

It is useless to refer to a document that begins with:
The Geological Society of America recognizes that the evolution of life stands as one of the central concepts of modem science.
and expect to get an unbiased view from it.

Why? They stated an objective fact. I understand that you don't like that fact, but that doesn't mean you are entitled to your own fantasty world with it's own facts.

The statement is from the experts (many of whom are Christian). If you choose to ignore what the experts have found, instead preferring unreliabel and explicitly biased sources (as Asssyrian pointed out), then you can reliably expect to be wrong.


Please try something else to proove that the question I ask has been considered

The statement explicity said that your question had been considered. Are you seriously suggesting I ignore the expert opinion, and instead look for sources that happen to agree with you? Who should I ask, Jim the plumber from down the street? You asked a question about geology, which has been specifically answered by the scientific consensus of geologists. Why aren't you simply thanking me for finding a direct and clear answer to your question?

There is no doubt in my mind that the tecnology that commercial geologists use would be equally successful at finding deposits irrespective of whatever theory they may hold as it how it got there.

Except that isn't true. Theories make different predictions about how to find stuff. That's the whole basis of how science works. You and I, as people who aren't geologists and know little about all that might not immediately see that, but I hope we both have the sense, in our ignorance, not to tell the experts that we know their field better than they do.

My question did not revolve around finding stuff but rather how the stuff got there in the first place

And as you saw in the statement, the geologists described that too- and it wasn't a flood.

On the contrary science has a track record of disregarding evidence when it doesn't line up with it's pre-conceived ideas.

If that were the case, the science would not have changed it's ideas in centuries, even millenia. Instead, we see that science changes as the evidence dictates, and that the view scientists have today is radically different in the past. Assyrian gave a long list of examples. Compare that to how creationists operate:

There is one thing about creationists which sets us apart from scientists _we will never change our story.

...and tell me which one is "disregarding evidence when it doesn't line up with it's pre-conceived ideas", and staying stuck in the same place?

The big bang theory has long time been debunked but science wants to hold onto it because the only alternative is God

First, you might want to be more critical of your sources, because the Big Bang theory hasn't been debunked, but instead has been repeatedly confirmed. Secondly, and more importantly, doesn't the Big Bang work quite well with the idea of God? The alternative would be a Universe that always existed, which would be worse, I think, for the idea that God created things. Are you not fighting against an idea that is more compatible with God than many of the alternatives?


Papias

P. S. Noah's ark - an embarrassing (and too-often repeated) hoax. Here is but one example: Noah's Ark Quest Dead in Water -- Was It a Stunt?
 
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SkyWriting

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Here's a question for geologists
If a huge amount of water appeared on the face of this earth , much of which came from beneaath its surface, is it possible that a huge tsunami like phenomena occurred, could it cause:
1) the centre of gravity and axis of the earth shifted considerably in view of the new conditions (thus covering mountains)
2) the addition mass on the earths crust that once covered the voids (from which the water came) could not support the massive increase thus collapsing forming huge sink holes
3) the subsequent inrush of water carrying wih it animal and plant life would leave as a flood aftermath the geology of the earth as we know it today
Just asking

In the broadest sense, it might. While Ken Ham and others have popularized this among believers, I have always expected them to eventually support this theory with unbiased support from the scientific community. Not all scientists see things the same way and surely a few would determine that certain geologic columns show evidence of being a cataclysmic event rather than a slow build up of layers.
But I'm still waiting.
 
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SkyWriting

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Flat earthers and geocentrists don't change their story either, no matter what the evidence....

I wasn't able to find any such documented groups of people. "Flat earthers" seem to be mythical creatures.
Yet 1000's of you Luddites are fine with flat earth language like "sunrise" and "sunset" and refuse to change as well.
I think God will forgive those who are wrong in believing what they think the scriptures say.
Scoffers, have more to answer for, I think.

Complete Sun and Moon Data for One Day
 
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SkyWriting

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There are certainly questions about it which is precisely why so much research is being done testing every aspect of the Big Bang ....

By definition it was infinitely small. And in a void so made no noise.
Not big, no bang. "Big Bang" is a full blown joke on anyone who says they support it.
 
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TasManOfGod

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In the broadest sense, it might. While Ken Ham and others have popularized this among believers, I have always expected them to eventually support this theory with unbiased support from the scientific community. Not all scientists see things the same way and surely a few would determine that certain geologic columns show evidence of being a cataclysmic event rather than a slow build up of layers.
But I'm still waiting.
Yes I am convinced that these are the series of events that happened. Unfortunately too many people seem to concentrate on the Flood waters (during the time of covering the earth) doing the formation of the present conditions whereas the receeding waters are the obvious source of layering and the various geological upheavals.
 
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SkyWriting

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Yes I am convinced that these are the series of events that happened. Unfortunately too many people seem to concentrate on the Flood waters (during the time of covering the earth) doing the formation of the present conditions whereas the receeding waters are the obvious source of layering and the various geological upheavals.

That makes sense. So do we think that all the layers were soft, and have become hard very quickly? And do YE's also have evidence of the same species of marine life buried in the top and bottom layers? Of course some sifting is expected, but I'd like to see Lucy with Modern Man holding a leash around Lucy's neck. Or holding hands in some excavation somewhere. Or Fred Flintstone, Wilma and Dino all in the same sediment layer. Or some such thing like that.
 
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SkyWriting

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If everyone submits to the majority opinion we would apparently still believe the earth is flat becase there would be no one to suggest something different.

My GPS has a flat screen. It must be a matter of practicality.
There may well be 100's of millions in the world who have no clue that the earth is globe shaped.
Because it doesn't matter to their lives one little bit.
 
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TasManOfGod

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That makes sense. So do we think that all the layers were soft, and have become hard very quickly? And do YE's also have evidence of the same species of marine life buried in the top and bottom layers? Of course some sifting is expected, but I'd like to see Lucy with Modern Man holding a leash around Lucy's neck. Or holding hands in some excavation somewhere. Or Fred Flintstone, Wilma and Dino all in the same sediment layer. Or some such thing like that.
Yes Surely the layers were still soft (wet) when the various formations occurred. If you look at say the Grand Canyon with this viewpoint you can see that if in 1 year a body of water as big as the Pacific Ocean poured through the "canyon" first doing the layering and then the erosion followed by wall collapses etc., is a viable proposition. It may well have taken several more years after this with wind and rain erosion before the solid formations we see today "evolved".
On that other issue I believe there have been human and dinasour bones found together but the scientific boys would not want details of that sort to get air time
 
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