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Is God a sadist?
- Thread starter razeontherock
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FrenchyBearpaw
Take time for granite.
I phrase it thusly because of the Father/Son/Holy Spirit - "three in one" - doctrine. There are references to a plurality of gods in the OT - "let us make man in our image." As you know, the word or concept of the trinity was not even considered until about the second to third century after the death of Jesus. You can claim that all three are separate but one all you want, but the fact remains that the trinity is nothing more than an ad hoc definition to describe three distinct entities in the Bible. This is not meant as a derision, but I prefer to describe things in terms of parsimony.
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FrenchyBearpaw
Take time for granite.
I'm not talking about mundane things like stubbing your toe, football injuries, car accidents and identity theft. I'm talking about the truly horrific atrocities that humans have endured for hundreds of thousands of years. The question is, is there a being who is capable of preventing these truly horrific atrocities? If yes, then why doesn't he stop it? If I was in a position to remove a child from the path a speeding car, I would.
Your scenario sounds like abused spouse syndrome to me. "But he really does love me and he's not mean all the time, only when he's been drinking. I mean, It's really not his fault, I deserve it."
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Everlasting33
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Mundane is also included in all responsible isn't it?
I am not a Christian and I am unsure of God's existence. Yet, I don't think it is fair to call him a sadist if he is also responsible for both the good and neutral, too.
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FrenchyBearpaw
Take time for granite.
Ok, I'm fine with that.
It's my opinion, that anyone who allows untold suffering, pain and atrocities to happen for hundreds of thousands of years, but does nothing to stop it, is, at least to some degree, getting their kicks out of it.
Theists do their best to philosophically handwave this away, citing free will, evil, sin, devil, selfishness, etc. But that still leaves them with the problem of why create any of this in the first place.
TBH, I'm really not that interested in labeling him as a sadist, it's what the OP put before us, but evil is much more befitting of a being who allows this to happen.
As an athiest, my position on supernatural beings is that there is insufficient evidence to claim one exists. I view the world in terms of naturalistic explanations. There is no sin, only consequences of our decisions and behavior.
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This sounds like what you've said before, that if you cannot think of a good reason for permitting this suffering, there must be none. But we know God is much greater than us in all aspects, so it serves that he would have a good reason that we cannot understand.
But there is also the fact that God takes no pleasure in the death of anyone, and God so loved the world he gave his only son to die for our sins so we may have everlasting life. God plans to end all suffering, and pay back those who do evil. This isn't what a sadist would do.
Romans 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.
To go back to your child hit by a car example, the suffering this child endures is so brief and worthless against the glory they will receive in the kingdom of heaven (which Jesus says all children will receive), that it's not even worth comparing. It will be that awesome, that no amount of suffering in this world can diminish its glory.
So we don't know the exact reasons why God allows suffering. But we know He loves us, is planning to end our suffering and destroy evil, and that our eternal life with God will be so great this suffering will be like a distant memory. Because of this, we can conclude God is not evil or sadist.
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Everlasting33
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I think your thoughts and concerns are definitely legitimate. I would venture to say all people have questioned the evil and suffering in the world--who would allow something like that? For many, its enough to reject religion and I understand it.
But, I simply pointed out that god cannot be a sadist if he is responsible for everything. If he is responsible for all the unspeakable acts, he is responsible for all the good..although just like with pain/pleasure, pain is much more impressionable and remembered.
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FrenchyBearpaw
Take time for granite.
So much handwaving.This sounds like what you've said before, that if you cannot think of a good reason for permitting this suffering, there must be none. But we know God is much greater than us in all aspects, so it serves that he would have a good reason that we cannot understand.
But there is also the fact that God takes no pleasure in the death of anyone, and God so loved the world he gave his only son to die for our sins so we may have everlasting life. God plans to end all suffering, and pay back those who do evil. This isn't what a sadist would do.
Romans 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.
To go back to your child hit by a car example, the suffering this child endures is so brief and worthless against the glory they will receive in the kingdom of heaven (which Jesus says all children will receive), that it's not even worth comparing. It will be that awesome, that no amount of suffering in this world can diminish its glory.
So we don't know the exact reasons why God allows suffering. But we know He loves us, is planning to end our suffering and destroy evil, and that our eternal life with God will be so great this suffering will be like a distant memory. Because of this, we can conclude God is not evil or sadist.
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FrenchyBearpaw
Take time for granite.
Why does it have to be an either/or proposition. Why couldn't a supernatural being be capable of both - enjoying good and evil? Afterall, he does allow it to continue when he's fully capable of stopping it.
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Please explain yourself. From what I have seen the only support you have for God being a sadist, is that you can't think of a possible good reason for His allowance of suffering in the world.
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This sounds like what you've said before, that if you cannot think of a good reason for permitting this suffering, there must be none. But we know God is much greater than us in all aspects, so it serves that he would have a good reason that we cannot understand.
But there is also the fact that God takes no pleasure in the death of anyone, and God so loved the world he gave his only son to die for our sins so we may have everlasting life. God plans to end all suffering, and pay back those who do evil. This isn't what a sadist would do.
Romans 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.
To go back to your child hit by a car example, the suffering this child endures is so brief and worthless against the glory they will receive in the kingdom of heaven (which Jesus says all children will receive), that it's not even worth comparing. It will be that awesome, that no amount of suffering in this world can diminish its glory.
So we don't know the exact reasons why God allows suffering. But we know He loves us, is planning to end our suffering and destroy evil, and that our eternal life with God will be so great this suffering will be like a distant memory. Because of this, we can conclude God is not evil or sadist.
What a great post brother!! My daughter died at 19 days old, it was very hard on me, but I knew one thing, that she was with Christ, and that is what got me through. She is in glory
and I can't wait until I see her again
Thank you Lord for your mercy!!!
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FrenchyBearpaw
Take time for granite.
I can think of plenty of reasons, none of them good though. If I beat someone in the head with a baseball bat, then made them tell me "I'm glad you stopped," would be evil. Would I be worthy of worship?
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FrenchyBearpaw
Take time for granite.
Three manifestations of one god, or three separate gods?
When Jesus prayed to his father to take "this cup" from him before his crucifixion, was he praying to himself?
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You pose a very good question that alot of people are confused about frenchy!! He was praying to what He knew was right, at that point, he was flesh, so he was praying to the father.
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FrenchyBearpaw
Take time for granite.
So at that precise moment in time, were there two or one entities in existence?
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They had separated into two, but were still one in mind and soul...but before and after were one...it is a brain twister...but once understood makes so much sense...and no one at all can tell you when God and Jesus became two instead of one...it will be a mystery until we die.
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Right, you are exemplifying my point. You cannot think of a good reason God would allow suffering, so you conclude there cannot possibly be one. Even though God is infinitely wiser than any man he created.
Now, you pose an analogy that is not consistent with Scripture. We know there is Scripture of God taking no pleasure in the death of anyone, and that he loves the world so much he gave his only Son so we might be saved. This does not sound like sadist material. Please offer up some Scripture that you think shows God enjoys making people suffer.
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