Did Noah's flood cover the whole earth including all the mountains with water?

[granpa]

Australasian strewnfield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Australasian strewnfield, covering at least one-tenth of the Earth's surface, is the largest and the youngest of the tektite strewnfields. The 800,000 year-old strewnfield includes most of Southeast Asia (Vietnam, Thailand, Southern China, Laos and Cambodia). The material from the impact stretches across the ocean to include the islands of the Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia and Java and reaches far out into the Indian Ocean and south to the western side of Australia.

The impact crater may have been between 32 and 114 kilometres in diameter. Also, some recent estimates suggest that the strewn field may cover 30% of the earths surface (Povenmire et al.).


Australite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

most scientists believe that australites formed during a large asteroid or comet impact on the Earth. The impact ejected myriads of small rocks right out of the atmosphere. The australites acquired their streamlined, aerodynamic forms when they re-entered the Earth's atmosphere while molten and travelling at high velocities.[1]

 

[Merlinius]

Did Noah's flood cover the whole earth including all the mountains with water?

The flood covered the "eretz" in the Hebrew.

Also translated "country". It's easy to look up in a concordance. The word "eretz" is also translated "land". That's all it means.
It doesn't mean "planet" lol.

The localized area in Mesopotamia was all that was affected.

 

[granpa]

Black Sea deluge theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ancient Greek flood myths - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.uib.es/depart/dctweb/LuisPomar/Luis/GreatFlood-controversy.pdf

Controversy over the great flood hypotheses in the Black Sea in light of
geological, paleontological, and archaeological evidence

In response to criticism, and based on their own data reevaluation,
the authors of the Early Holocene Flood
hypothesis pushed the date of their inundation back 1200
years to 8.4 ky BP (Ryan et al., 2003). Instead of one
lowstand and one flooding event as was originally
proposed, the authors suggested two lowstands (120m
at 13.4–11 ky BP, and 95m at 10–8.4 ky BP) and two
flooding events (sea-level rise from 120 to 30m at
11.0–10.0 ky BP, and another from 95 to 30m at
8.4 ky BP). The second flooding event at 8.4 ky BP was
the one popularized as having been a catastrophe of
biblical proportions.

 

[Assyrian]

duordi, could you please quote the posts you are answering, or at least address the poster by name, so we can tell what you are replying to? Otherwise when you give a string of replies, we have to search through all earlier post to try and figure out what you are talking about.

It is true that earth can mean dust a plot of land, or even the continents.

You can mess with the meaning of a word because it has multiple meanings but the intend of the text is clear.

In both the passages you quote the area is defined as where the nations are or in the land of Egypt.

I would agree the 'the land of Egypt' tell us how the word land is being used in that phrase. However the 'the face of the whole earth' doesn't come with any qualifiers, it is only the context that tells us 'the whole earth' actually meant the land of Egypt.

You put yourself in a pretty dubious position exegetically, immune to anything in scripture contradicting you opinions, if any evidence that shows clearly how a phrase can be used, is dismissed for the very fact it is clear, as evidence it is being used differently there.

In the flood text the water level on the earth is defined.

Perhaps this is because God knew people would doubt Him if He didn't make it very clear.

You need to watch that word 'defined', unless the bible actually says it is defining the word, what you have instead is people mistaking their interpretation of a passage for God defining and confirming their views.

There is enough evidence to suggest that there was a world flood without the Bible. Mount Everest is made from sedimentary rock created under water with sea shells in it.

Except it wasn't a flood dropping shells on the tops of mountains, it is a sea bed that was lifted up and then eroded into mountains. The layers of sedimentary rocks run through the mountains.

​

When the shells were laid down, it was one continuous layer, a sea bed. When people first saw the shells, they saw it as evidence of a flood covering the mountains, it is now very clear the mountains were formed later, by erosion carving out this ancient sea bed.

You really have to have blinders on not to see it.

Duordi

First remove the blinders from your own eyes....

 

[duordi]

So you have already looked at the continental shelf problem?

 

[Assyrian]

What's that?

 

[ACKerr]

The flood covered the "eretz" in the Hebrew.

Also translated "country". It's easy to look up in a concordance. The word "eretz" is also translated "land". That's all it means.
It doesn't mean "planet" lol.

The localized area in Mesopotamia was all that was affected.

Consider that 6000 years ago, the population of Mesopotamia was roughly 500,000. It would not take a massive flood to destroy this many people considering that the Indonesian Tsunami destroyed over 200,000 people. How much evidence of that Tsumami will exist 6,000 years from now. Also if you search "angelfire noah" you will be provided with an excellent argument on why eretz should be translated as land in the passages related to Noah's flood as opposed to the whole earth. I am blocked in providing a link, since I am a newbie...they fear the scribblings of a babe.

 

[Assyrian]

Do you mean
Noah's Flood: Global or Local? ?

 

[ACKerr]

?

Yes. Many are turned off by this author's other views, but he appears to present a strong argument here. I cannot even quote your questions because it has a link...fear the babe.

 

[Assyrian]

Yes. Many are turned off by this author's other views, but he appears to present a strong argument here. I cannot even quote your questions because it has a link...fear the babe.

You can build up your post count in the game threads over here Recreation Room - Christian Forums

 

[ACKerr]

So you have already looked at the continental shelf problem?

Hey- I also would be interested in the continental shelf problem if you can provide a link. On a broader level, just do not have a crisis of faith debating a bunch of old earthers. As a geologist and a one-time YEC, I used to feel like the wind was knocked out of me confronting these issues. Fortunately, I found that I can be an intellectually fullfilled OEC without ignoring parts of the bible, like I had to ignore physical evidence. I only say this because I work with several atheist biologists who were one-time believers but had a crisis of faith due to their science background. Unfortunately, most do not realize that the functional intregrity of the created universe does not prove an atheistic belief system. Sorry for straying a little off track, but your viewpoint is respected by me.

 

[SkyWriting]

First remove the blinders from your own eyes....

What I always notice about such erosion is how the erosion face seems to ignore most layer lines. Meaning it crosses through differing layers and depths as if all the layers had the same hardness. Why aren't lower layers more compacted and hard, and why aren't differing layers of different materials more or less affected by erosion? Erosion seems to be consistent at every depth.

But just looking at this picture, isn't there visual clues's that water was at least as deep as this mountain during the erosion process?

I've personally made such "mountains" with a garden hose. It didn't take that long.

 

[Assyrian]

What I always notice about such erosion is how the erosion face seems to ignore most layer lines. Meaning it crosses through differing layers and depths as if all the layers had the same hardness. Why aren't lower layers more compacted and hard, and why aren't differing layers of different materials more or less affected by erosion? Erosion seems to be consistent at every depth.

But just looking at this picture, isn't there visual clues's that water was at least as deep as this mountain during the erosion process?

I've personally made such "mountains" with a garden hose. It didn't take that long.

You would need a detailed cross section to look at variable erosion of different layers, however your claim that the erosion could have been carried out by water as deep as the mountains, wouldn't that leave the fossil shells duordi spoke of on the surface of the mountains rather than in strata running through them?

How good is your garden hose a carving out solid rock? Or if it was still layers of mud when the Himalayan valleys were carved out, why didn't mud mountains all collapse in a gigantic mudslide?

 

[SkyWriting]

You would need a detailed cross section to look at variable erosion of different layers,

I'm looking at the non-detailed view, seeing lots of layers, & not seeing any difference in erosion rates of the different layers. It looks like all the layers were laid down "at the same time" from a few hours to a few years.

however your claim that the erosion could have been carried out by water as deep as the mountains, wouldn't that leave the fossil shells duordi spoke of on the surface of the mountains rather than in strata running through them?

Both I predict. I will get out my garden hose and run a simulation. I will lay down differing layers of different materials, then either drain away the water quickly, or up-thrust the base layer, or deluge the entire surface with a downpour, or sprinkle gently for a while. OR any combination of each that I choose. Likely all surface deposits will wash away after I sprinkle them a few times. It could take me almost an hour to replicate the illustration. If I do it a few times, it could take a week.

How good is your garden hose a carving out solid rock?

Nothing carves out rock well. Looks to me like it was mud.

Or if it was still layers of mud when the Himalayan valleys were carved out, why didn't mud mountains all collapse in a gigantic mudslide?

Judging from the illustration there were no mountains until all the surrounding material washed away and left "mountains" behind. The mountains look exactly like what remains after a mudslide to me. Notice that the upper mountain layers around the mountains are missing?

Dave's Landslide Blog: November 2009

 

[SkyWriting]

Yes. Many are turned off by this author's other views, but he appears to present a strong argument here. I cannot even quote your questions because it has a link...fear the babe.

You can delete any links from a quote.

If you NEED to refer to any particular site,
go to that site and find 3 or four unique words in a row.

An example for finding this exact post would be "3 or four unique words".

If anyone searches for "3 or four unique words"
(in "quotes", after about 24 hours)
this post will be the only Google result.

Just quote the title in most cases.
"Noah's Flood: Global or Local?

 

[Assyrian]

I'm looking at the non-detailed view, seeing lots of layers, & not seeing any difference in erosion rates of the different layers.

That's why I said you need a more detailed view

Both I predict. I will get out my garden hose and run a simulation. I will lay down differing layers of different materials, then either drain away the water quickly, or up-thrust the base layer, or deluge the entire surface with a downpour, or sprinkle gently for a while. Of any combination of each that I choose. Likely all surface deposits will wash away after I sprinkle them a few times. It could take me almost an hour to replicate the illustration. If I do it a few times, it could take a week.

Have you tried standing on your mud mountains? Your mud heaps are held together by surface tension of the water around the mud grains, but they don't need to support that much weight, If you want a mount Everest carved out of mud, the mud would need to support the billions of tons of mountain above it. You may replicate vaguely similar shapes in you back garden but you can't scale up in mud, you need rock for that and rock takes time to erode.

How do you get shale forming in a global flood, that requires very calm water for the fine particles of sediment to settle. Some of the layers in Everest are metamorphic, which takes pressure and heat, easy enough if they are deep below the sea bed, but how does that happen high up a mud mountain carved out by a flood?

Nothing carves out rock well. Looks to me like it was mud.

Yet they are still being eroded. Ice and rain are doing a great job, and in the time scale we see from the age of the rock, the movement of the Indian subcontinent and the way the mountains are still rising. And in the time scale the evidence shows us, the shells would all have been laid down in those strata at the bottom of the sea.

The "all" did, accept for what you find remaining. The mountains looks exactly like what remains after a mudslide to me. Notice that the upper mountain layers around the mountains are missing?

Of course they are, what do you expect rock hanging in mid air? It has been eroded.

Dave's Landslide Blog: November 2009

Where are the slumped strata on Everest? There is plenty of solid rock and plenty of eroded rock, but if the mountains turned into rock after the mud eroded, you would expect the exposed strata to show slumping before it lithified.

 

[ACKerr]

I'm looking at the non-detailed view, seeing lots of layers, & not seeing any difference in erosion rates of the different layers. It looks like all the layers were laid down "at the same time" from a few hours to a few years.



Both I predict. I will get out my garden hose and run a simulation. I will lay down differing layers of different materials, then either drain away the water quickly, or up-thrust the base layer, or deluge the entire surface with a downpour, or sprinkle gently for a while. OR any combination of each that I choose. Likely all surface deposits will wash away after I sprinkle them a few times. It could take me almost an hour to replicate the illustration. If I do it a few times, it could take a week.


Nothing carves out rock well. Looks to me like it was mud.


Judging from the illustration there were no mountains until all the surrounding material washed away and left "mountains" behind. The mountains look exactly like what remains after a mudslide to me. Notice that the upper mountain layers around the mountains are missing?

Having spent a summer mapping throughout Wyoming and Montana, I can honestly say that there is a difference in erosion rates based on rock type at close up views. The hillsides change slope at each layer with the weaker claystones exhibiting a milder slope. When capped with a stronger sandstone, you will see erosion of the weaker unit undercutting the stronger until it is sheltered. Stronger rock also exhibits jointing from stress relief (being unburried). These joints combined with freeze/thaw cause the stronger rocks to erode in chunks, so running water is not the primary eroding factor. This even occures with mountain supporting granite, leaving beautiful jagged mountain peaks. Additionally, the garden hose is not representative since scale matters. The slope stability programs we use are highly sensitive to scale, and theoretically sound. A 1:1 soil slope can be very stable for a 5-foot high embankment, but will fail at 100 feet. Although I do like Skywriting's thought process of applying everyday observations to understand a bigger process. Excuse my spelling, I am still trying to figure out how to activate the spell checker...As a science guy, I could never spell.

 

[Seve]

Sorry but all of you are IGNORANT of the biblical fact that the great Noah's flood happened in different world. Beyond this Kosmos The old world was completely destoyed - gone forever - dissolved by the flood. That is why the Scriptures document us new heaven and new earth which are now...

2 Peter 3
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The mere mentioned and the inclusion of the word "HEAVENS" which are now should give you all the hint that the flood could not have been just a local flood but universal one.

Therefore your so called scientific evidences are irrelevant. Try again.

 

[Assyrian]

Sorry but all of you are IGNORANT of the biblical fact that the great Noah's flood happened in different world. Beyond this Kosmos The old world was completely destoyed - gone forever - dissolved by the flood. That is why the Scriptures document us new heaven and new earth which are now...

2 Peter 3
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The mere mentioned and the inclusion of the word "HEAVENS" which are now should give you all the hint that the flood could not have been just a local flood but universal one.

Therefore your so called scientific evidences are irrelevant. Try again.

Where does it say the heavens were flooded?

 

[Seve]

Where does it say the heavens were flooded?

The 1st Firmament or Heaven was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 It was formed in the midst or middle of the Water, and Water was above and below it. IOW, the 1st Heaven (1st world), was surrounded by water. It was later destroyed, totally and completely, by that same Water, when the "windows of heaven were opened. Gen. 7:11

Our Heaven or Universe was made on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4-5 The Big Bang happened on the 3rd Day, the same Day Jesus made our Heaven or Kosmos, and also the 3rd Heaven. ll Corinthians 12:2 tells us of the Apostle Paul being taken to the 3rd Heaven.