The challenge of being Messianic

[yedida]

What Zaksmummy said.

 

[Happy Forever]

In another thread here, a statement was made that it is not easy to be
a Messianic.

What challenges do you face? What makes it difficult?
Or do you disagree with that statement?

What is meant by messianic?

 

[visionary]

Messianic.. in this corner means Yeshua... or in English.. Jesus Christ.. Christ=Messiah.

 

[ati]

As alluded to earlier, many people are in the business of defending their beliefs/traditions than honestly exploring the Scriptures. I would say the first challenge of any believer is to leave their preconceived notions at the table when approaching the LORD and attempt to understand Him the way He wants to be understood. And if this leads a person to a faith that is not the norm, such as MJ theology, then comes the second challenge of being in the minority as opposed to the comfortable majority.

Having a faith shared by a minority is naturally going to be difficult. But the Messiah said we are to expect that when it comes to proclaiming His name. Personally, I gain strength from being reconciled in my mind that my current beliefs produce a great level of harmony within the Scriptures. I feel there aren't as many "pesky verses" to sweep aside. And when you're standing on the Word, you're standing on solid ground!

 

[anisavta]

The hard part for me is associating as a Jew with the Jewish community. All is good until they ask where I go to synagogue. Can't lie and when I tell them, the game changes. Now it's the long process of them realizing that I'm not there to proselyte - I'm at the functions just because I'm a Jew wanting to be involved in the community.
On the other hand the Christian community wants me to be like them and shed my Jewish identity altogether. As Contra said I'm either the token Jew who gains star status or the one everyone wants to steer clear of.

 

[ContraMundum]

The hard part for me is associating as a Jew with the Jewish community. All is good until they ask where I go to synagogue. Can't lie and when I tell them, the game changes. Now it's the long process of them realizing that I'm not there to proselyte - I'm at the functions just because I'm a Jew wanting to be involved in the community.
On the other hand the Christian community wants me to be like them and shed my Jewish identity altogether. As Contra said I'm either the token Jew who gains star status or the one everyone wants to steer clear of.

As I've said numerous times, I do not share the experience that the Church wants me to shed any Jewish identity. They accept me as I am and I can say with confidence that most of the Jews I know in the church will say the same thing. I really do not believe it happens in the civilized world. It might in the USA.

On the other hand, there is no question that the Jewish community pressures us to shed our Christian identity.

Recently I heard about people who were raised as Christians or secular who have some Jewish DNA that all of the sudden feel like the Church is pressuring them to shed their Jewish identity- one they never really had in public prior to their discovery of their background etc. This to me is really weird. I say if you are in a group that forces you to reject or accept a culture you are in a wrong place. We are only to reject sin.

I accept that the whacko churches out there would probably try to force their church culture on anybody, regardless of ethnic background. I would reject this as counter to the Gospels. Both Jew and Gentile should leave such a place, unless of course the prevailing culture being forced is one's own.

 

[visionary]

As alluded to earlier, many people are in the business of defending their beliefs/traditions than honestly exploring the Scriptures. I would say the first challenge of any believer is to leave their preconceived notions at the table when approaching the LORD and attempt to understand Him the way He wants to be understood. And if this leads a person to a faith that is not the norm, such as MJ theology, then comes the second challenge of being in the minority as opposed to the comfortable majority.

Having a faith shared by a minority is naturally going to be difficult. But the Messiah said we are to expect that when it comes to proclaiming His name. Personally, I gain strength from being reconciled in my mind that my current beliefs produce a great level of harmony within the Scriptures. I feel there aren't as many "pesky verses" to sweep aside. And when you're standing on the Word, you're standing on solid ground!

That is so good that when I read it the second time, I still wanted to rep you again..

 

[stone]

Have you honestly been in a church that teaches that, or have you taken in the media view of the church too much?

Over the years, I have been to many churches of different denominations, and have never seen any that hated Jews or blamed them for killing Jesus. I'm sure that there are some out there, but I believe they are few.

The church, which of course predates Protestant theology clearly puts the blame on Pontious Pilate. It was his decision.

 

[visionary]

The church, which of course predates Protestant theology clearly puts the blame on Pontious Pilate. It was his decision.

Eastern Christianity
The Holy Friday liturgy of the Eastern Orthodox Church and Byzantine Catholics uses the expression "impious and transgressing people",[7] but the strongest expressions are in the Holy Thursday liturgy, which includes the same chant, after the eleventh Gospel reading, but also speaks of "the murderers of God, the lawless nation of the Jews",[8] and, referring to "the assembly of the Jews", prays: "But give them, Lord, their reward, because they devised vain things against Thee."[9]

Jewish deicide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Western Christianity
A liturgy with a similar pattern, historically using the term "perfidious Jews," can be found in the Improperia of the Roman Catholic Church. In the Anglican Church, the first Anglican Book of Common Prayer did not contain this formula, but has emerged in later versions, for example, the 1989 Anglican Prayer Book of the Anglican Church of Southern Africa, as the The Solemn Adoration of Christ Crucified or The Reproaches.[10] Though not part of Christian dogma, many Christians, including members of the clergy, preached that the Jewish people were collectively guilty for Jesus's death.[11]

 

[pat34lee]

The thing is we have to start somewhere, and being as there is no temple, as there was in the times of Yeshua, and that your people have been worshipping HaShem for 4000 years or more, looking at the way you do things is the best and most sensible way to go.

What I have found is that many of your customs have some very beautiful imagery in them, and a richness and depth that is found nowhere else.

There is no way to be messianic or Christian AND follow modern rabbinic Judaism. Either you follow the Messiah or the Talmud. Neither will accept the other one.

 

[visionary]

There is no way to be messianic or Christian AND follow modern rabbinic Judaism. Either you follow the Messiah or the Talmud. Neither will accept the other one.

It can be done whether or not anyone accepts it. There are gems of wisdom in the Talmud. True.. that following will not be according to the dictates of the modern orthodox Judaism counsel which has a clause in it that to accept the one you must reject the other. Just because they dicate that doesn't change the fact that it can be done, even without their approval. Faith in God supersedes man's authority. If God directs you to learn from the elders, under His guidance then that is what one must do.

 

[ChavaK]

There is no way to be messianic or Christian AND follow modern rabbinic Judaism.

I agree....and if one decides to adopt rabbinical practices, they should all
be adopted. Picking and choosing which rabbinical rulings to follow doesn't
fly.

 

[ChavaK]

Recently I heard about people who were raised as Christians or secular who have some Jewish DNA that all of the sudden feel like the Church is pressuring them to shed their Jewish identity- one they never really had in public prior to their discovery of their background etc. This to me is really weird.

Yeah, I agree....that is strange.

 

[zaksmummy]

There is no way to be messianic or Christian AND follow modern rabbinic Judaism. Either you follow the Messiah or the Talmud. Neither will accept the other one.

I think you have taken my comments to say something they dont. I have read portions of the Talmud, because it has helped me in my study and understanding of who Messiah is. I do not follow rabbinic rulings per se, although have found many of the rulings to be sensible in their approach to life.

In the words of a good friend of mine I "glean" - that is read it, read it again, pray about it, read it again, pray about it and if Im led by the Holy Spirit I do it. However if I led be the Holy Spirit to not do it, then I dont. The Didache says, do as much Torah as you can, and to be honest I do frightfully little, but what I do, I do in obedience to HaShem and am happy with it.

 

[yedida]

I think you have taken my comments to say something they dont. I have read portions of the Talmud, because it has helped me in my study and understanding of who Messiah is. I do not follow rabbinic rulings per se, although have found many of the rulings to be sensible in their approach to life.

In the words of a good friend of mine I "glean" - that is read it, read it again, pray about it, read it again, pray about it and if Im led by the Holy Spirit I do it. However if I led be the Holy Spirit to not do it, then I dont. The Didache says, do as much Torah as you can, and to be honest I do frightfully little, but what I do, I do in obedience to HaShem and am happy with it.

 

[anisavta]

As I've said numerous times, I do not share the experience that the Church wants me to shed any Jewish identity. They accept me as I am and I can say with confidence that most of the Jews I know in the church will say the same thing. I really do not believe it happens in the civilized world. It might in the USA.

Not sure what your evangelical and holiness churches are like down under but that's where I have had my "issues".

 

[MessianicMommy]

As I've said numerous times, I do not share the experience that the Church wants me to shed any Jewish identity. They accept me as I am and I can say with confidence that most of the Jews I know in the church will say the same thing. I really do not believe it happens in the civilized world. It might in the USA...

I am assuming positive intent here... this wasn't meant as a dig was it? Because most of North America, USA and Canada included, believe they are part of the civilized world...

Most protestant theologies do not allow for a Jew who remains Jewish in practice in their congregation. This is one of the many reasons that Messianic congregations in every flavor became such a "boom" in the US/Canada.

It always comes back to practice. "But you're a Christian now... you'll do _________ and eat ________ and not do those holidays any more...."

It's as if the litmus test of belief is not by what you believe, but how you practice your faith/culture. "Oh it's sweet you guys do Hanukkah, but you're doing Christmas -- right?" / "Oh, you're doing Passover? We'll see you Easter Sunday...right?"

Most congregations find it "awesome" to have a missionary working with the Jewish community, but if they found out they were Messianic in every way, kept the feasts and kosher - there'd be a fall out in many of those congregations. They avoid topics that relate to that aspect, use "Christianese" and when you ask at the back after everyone else has stopped asking questions, you get a whole other bucket of answers that weren't provided to the other Q&A'ers.

It really should not be that way, but in many protestant denominations, it simply is... all over the civilized world.

 

[ContraMundum]

Not sure what your evangelical and holiness churches are like down under but that's where I have had my "issues".

There is not as much enculturization as you might get in the USA. The holiness Churches here tend to be rather smarter and better educated than the snake-handlers you get over there.

Evangelicals tend to be rather supportive of the Messianic movement too.

 

[ContraMundum]

I am assuming positive intent here... this wasn't meant as a dig was it? Because most of North America, USA and Canada included, believe they are part of the civilized world...

Most protestant theologies do not allow for a Jew who remains Jewish in practice in their congregation.

I have read dozens of Protestant theologies....and never heard that one before.

It always comes back to practice. "But you're a Christian now... you'll do _________ and eat ________ and not do those holidays any more...."

If they are telling you the best way to fit into their congregation yet allow you to do such things in your personal cultural context and group, I'd have no problem with that- it's pastoral. But if they are telling you to do that for some theological reason- I'd say you were in a bad church.

It really should not be that way, but in many protestant denominations, it simply is... all over the civilized world.

Again, I've not seen it. Then again, I'm in circles that have a long history of letting people be themselves- they let Jews be Jews and everyone else be themselves too.

 

[xDenax]

It can be done whether or not anyone accepts it. There are gems of wisdom in the Talmud. True.. that following will not be according to the dictates of the modern orthodox Judaism counsel which has a clause in it that to accept the one you must reject the other. Just because they dicate that doesn't change the fact that it can be done, even without their approval. Faith in God supersedes man's authority. If God directs you to learn from the elders, under His guidance then that is what one must do.

Acknowledging there are gems of wisdom in the Talmud is a far cry from taking on all the observance of Rabbinical Judaism. It doesn't even make sense to try it. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make because it sounds like you are saying "yes it can be done...but it won't be the same".