Are Allah and Yaweh the same God?

[Montalban]

The thread is about whether Yahweh and Allah can be considered the same God, and I said that JacktheCatholic's post was the best answer.

Yes, and you've made statements about how you've been helped by Islam, in some way you're not willing/able scratch say

 

[Montalban]

You sure? Actually Scriptures is basically & intrinsically GOD love letters to us. The whole Book speaks primary of GOD the father & Jesus love for us.

That's missing the point.

Before the bible was compiled there were many 'scriptures' around.

Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers lists for example the Gospel of Peter. When those compiling the Bible chose what books to put in the Gospel of Peter doesn't have written on the front cover "Not genuine: Don't pick me".

Conversely "The Epistle to the Romans" by Paul also doesn't have on it's front cover "Pick me: Genuinely inspired by God".

When in fact Paul wrote the Epistle to the Romans he would have entrusted it to the hands of someone known to him to deliver. He would have handed it over to that person. That person would have carried it to the Roman church. That church then accepted by the person delivering it that it was a genuine Epistle of Paul to them. Thus the person carrying it bore witness to its truth, and then the church in Rome bore witness to its truth. The epistle itself doesn't say "I am true - pick me".

That's the foundation of tradition.

The church in Rome would have heard that the church in Ephesus also bore an Epistle of Paul. They both bore witness to each other that they had genuine epistles.

 

[Montalban]

I have also suggested that we Christians should not only show love and respect for Muslims, but also for our fellow Christians in this forum;

There's several things here that I believe are Christianity skewered.

Let's take Jesus as the prime example... being the best example.

He loved sinners. BUT he also noted that they were sinning. He didn't say "We have much to learn from the pagans in how to come closer to God", although he would have classed pagans as being God's creation.

The closest I can think of what you're on about is his parable of the Good Samaritan where the Samaritan was more properly displaying the way of being a good 'neighbour' than the two other examples in the same parable. But I don't believe he's saying "Study Samaritanism for the truth there" but simply exampling a good practice by a person who happened to be Samaritan. I don't see him point to anything in Samaritanism that is worthy of study.

Imagine if Paul, going to Greece said "Okay you guys, I've got a message, but I'm going to show you respect and not say "Repent!" because your practices are just as valid as any others, including Christianity"

this means we ought not to engage in badgering, goading, or cyberbullying. The hymn says, "They will know we are Christians by our love."

I am genuinely sorry if you feel you've been bullied but what you take as bullying is me simply asking you to expand on a statement you made, which you don't now seem to wish to discuss. You've not said how learning to prostrate yourself like a Moslem (as just one example) helps you be a better Christian - given that Christians can prostrate themselves quite easily already.

This is a discussion board and when people make statements you can expect that some will want more information. If you find asking for more information bullying, then I'm sorry about that too.

 

[gideon army]

John chapter 1 isn't about Scripture, it's about Christ. The Logos who became flesh is Jesus Christ. It's not about the Bible at all, unless you're ready to call a collection of texts God. Which, by the way, is nothing short of idolatry.

If you can quote/state John 1:1-2 & 14is about Christ then any chance you are 'reading' but not understanding the plain english?

No wonder the Jesus said this:-

Luke 10:24 "for I tell you that many prophets and kings have desired to see what you see, and have not seen [it], and to hear what you hear, and have not heard [it]."

Ever wonder or doubt that 'kings' in any age/ culture have a barrage of advisors? These 'advisors' are they not known as theologians?

Know you not that the Logos & Rhema word of GOD is 1 Men/ Theologians have this propensity to dissect what GOD has joined

Now, bet you know the importance of seeing & hearing (Hearing with a HEARING Heart) right? Why there is of such importance? Shall show you 1 of the KEY that unlocks the secrets why throughout the past 2000 years, the Church of Jesus Christ hasn't been exploiting ALL the Powers Jesus bequeath to the Church:-

Matt 13:15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. [Their] ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with [their] eyes and hear with [their] ears, Lest they should understand with [their] hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.'

Wow, in a world that is full of diseases of all sorts which are life threatening / proverty of epic proportion / Lack of empirical magnitude & much more, shouldn't we (The Church of Jesus Christ) needs it desperately?

Shall show yoou Scripturally learned & super smarto Theologians not receiving Jesus's power:-

Mark 6:2 And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue. And many hearing [Him] were astonished, saying, "Where [did] this Man [get] these things? And what wisdom [is] this which is given to Him, that such mighty works are performed by His hands!

Mark 6:3 "Is this not the carpenter, the Son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are not His sisters here with us?" So they were offended at Him.

In the furnished above Scriptures, can you not see those LEARNED ppl wanna SEPERATE Jesus's divinity against natural? Why were they offended?

To show you Scriptural proof of what i stated earlier that in these 2000 years, Jesus's power hesn't be fully exploited because of too many super smarto Theologians trying to dissect what GOD has joined :-

Mark 6:4 But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house."

Mark 6:5 Now He could do no mighty work there, except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed [them].

Scriptures (OT) are more than approx 3400 years OLD Not hundreds of years old mate

 

[gideon army]

That's missing the point.

Before the bible was compiled there were many 'scriptures' around.

Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers lists for example the Gospel of Peter.

You sure i 'missed' the point? I didn't attach the rest of the quuotes from you since i believe whosoever is interested will check up what you said.

Since you quoted 'gospel of peter' & it's selection process, let's see shall we & compare & contrast :-

gospel of peter 1:1 But of the Jews none washed his hands, neither Herod nor one of his judges And since they did not desire to wash, Pilate stood up

Now, let's compare with the True Gospel, shall we?

Matt 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather [that] a tumult was rising, he took water and washed [his] hands before the multitude, saying, "I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see [to it]."

Matt 27: 25 And all the people answered and said, "His blood [be] on us and on our children."

Can you not see the significance or difference? Whosoever complied the Scriptures (NT) is obviously lead by the Holy Spirit in decerning (NOT via knowledge nor what you've explained) what is from GOD & what is from the devil via deception like how i've taken great pains in showing Islam Mulia in post #764

INcidentally, Matt 27:25 is THE Sole Reason why the Jews have been in diaspora for the past 2000 years hence Jesus weap:-

Luke 13:34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen [gathers] her brood under [her] wings, but you were not willing!

And Jesus cried/wept for the Jews again in:-

Luke 19:41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it,

Luke 19:42 saying, "If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things [that make] for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes.

Luke 19:43 "For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side,

Hope you understand by now what Jesus says when He said the Scriptures cann't be broken

Out of the 4 Gospels , do you know what Pilate washing his hands & what they Jews declared only appears in the Gospel of Matt? If you've missed it or can't remember then maybe you wanna revert back to Page 71 post #705

If what i've compared / contrasted / explained still isn't convincing, then how about:-

gospel of peter 1:10 And they brought two wrongdoers and crucified the Lord in the middle of them. But he was silent as having no pain. [11] And when they had set the cross upright, they inscribed that THIS IS THE KING OF ISRAEL

Then compare & contrast with the real Gospel:-

John 19:19 Now Pilate wrote a title and put [it] on the cross. And the writing was: JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS

Believe you are a LEARNED man of GOD & know that the inscriptions were written in latin/ Hebrew & Greek?

Why is that of great importance (to readers & never to you Montalban - for i believe the following is simply Elemantary ro you )

It was written in an acrostic manner which reads YHVH in the Hebrew hence it incensed the dethroned high priests & pharisees, which drove them to insist:-

John 19:21 Therefore the chief priests of the Jews said to Pilate, "Do not write, 'The King of the Jews,' but, 'He said, "I am the King of the Jews." ' "

Why? Because if any change would result in YHVH being no longer there

Now, sure that i have missed the point? Or, what was the point

 

[Montalban]

You sure i 'missed' the point? I didn't attach the rest of the quuotes from you since i believe whosoever is interested will check up what you said.

Since you quoted 'gospel of peter' & it's selection process, let's see shall we & compare & contrast :-

gospel of peter 1:1 But of the Jews none washed his hands, neither Herod nor one of his judges And since they did not desire to wash, Pilate stood up

Now, let's compare with the True Gospel, shall we?

No, because that's false analogy because you already KNOW what the "True Gospel" is.

You're looking at this from it already known. The early church didn't have the completed bible to know that the Gospel of Peter wasn't in it, therefore it wasn't inspired

So yes, you've missed the point.

As to discernment so you're saying it wasn't apparent just by the text that it was inspired anyway! That they needed guidance from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Montalban]

I asked how did they know the Gospel of Peter wasn't inspired. Your suggestion is that they compared it to a text that they knew was, which doesn't say how they knew that text was inspired.

 

[ViaCrucis]

If you can quote/state John 1:1-2 & 14is about Christ then any chance you are 'reading' but not understanding the plain english?

No wonder the Jesus said this:-

Luke 10:24 "for I tell you that many prophets and kings have desired to see what you see, and have not seen [it], and to hear what you hear, and have not heard [it]."

Ever wonder or doubt that 'kings' in any age/ culture have a barrage of advisors? These 'advisors' are they not known as theologians?

Know you not that the Logos & Rhema word of GOD is 1 Men/ Theologians have this propensity to dissect what GOD has joined

Now, bet you know the importance of seeing & hearing (Hearing with a HEARING Heart) right? Why there is of such importance? Shall show you 1 of the KEY that unlocks the secrets why throughout the past 2000 years, the Church of Jesus Christ hasn't been exploiting ALL the Powers Jesus bequeath to the Church:-

Matt 13:15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. [Their] ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with [their] eyes and hear with [their] ears, Lest they should understand with [their] hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.'

Wow, in a world that is full of diseases of all sorts which are life threatening / proverty of epic proportion / Lack of empirical magnitude & much more, shouldn't we (The Church of Jesus Christ) needs it desperately?

Shall show yoou Scripturally learned & super smarto Theologians not receiving Jesus's power:-

Mark 6:2 And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue. And many hearing [Him] were astonished, saying, "Where [did] this Man [get] these things? And what wisdom [is] this which is given to Him, that such mighty works are performed by His hands!

Mark 6:3 "Is this not the carpenter, the Son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are not His sisters here with us?" So they were offended at Him.

In the furnished above Scriptures, can you not see those LEARNED ppl wanna SEPERATE Jesus's divinity against natural? Why were they offended?

To show you Scriptural proof of what i stated earlier that in these 2000 years, Jesus's power hesn't be fully exploited because of too many super smarto Theologians trying to dissect what GOD has joined :-

Mark 6:4 But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house."

Mark 6:5 Now He could do no mighty work there, except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed [them].

Scriptures (OT) are more than approx 3400 years OLD Not hundreds of years old mate

I have no clue what you're going on about.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Beautiful Ignorance]

I didn't vote.

Allah is a god construct while YHWH is God. Allah exists in the minds of his worshipers while YHWH is everywhere, all the time without exception.

 

[Montalban]

I have no clue what you're going on about.

-CryptoLutheran

I find sometimes people concentrate more on bolding/underlining and colours rather than substance of argument

 

[FredVB]

I didn't vote.

Allah is a god construct while YHWH is God. Allah exists in the minds of his worshipers while YHWH is everywhere, all the time without exception.

Yahweh is indeed the one true God, there absolutely is no other. It is just that in another language, Arabic, the word for the one God is 'Allah', Christians with that language will use that word for the true God, Yahweh. Muslims have the faulty construct with their claim from their faith of God as revealed to them.

 

[Islam_mulia]

I find sometimes people concentrate more on bolding/underlining and colours rather than substance of argument

I was about to say the same thing to that guy but decided to withdraw from the discussion as the irrelevant points just kept surfacing.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Maybe they are brothers?

 

[Montalban]

I was about to say the same thing to that guy but decided to withdraw from the discussion as the irrelevant points just kept surfacing.

See very very occasionally we agree.

 

[Mess]

It amazes me how this thread can run 84pages. Seems as though people don't like to trust The Word, but rather trust in emotions. Foolish thing to do, no doubt about it.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yahweh is indeed the one true God, there absolutely is no other. It is just that in another language, Arabic, the word for the one God is 'Allah', Christians with that language will use that word for the true God, Yahweh.
Muslims have the faulty construct with their claim from their faith of God as revealed to them.

As far as I know, few Christian bible translations use "Yahweh".
Rotherham's version does use that word......

Handling the Tetragrammaton in English Translations

YAHWEH
Based partly on studies of proper names that incorporate the TG, many scholars favor Yahweh as the correct pronunciation. The use of this Hebrew form has steadily increased in recent years.
Who then was first to use Yahweh in translation? It is not so easy to be categorical. Certainly the first major translation of the complete OT to consistently feature Yahweh was J. B. Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible.
The OT was first published in 1902*. Rotherham devotes much space to explain his use of Yahweh in preference to the popular form Jehovah. 9 Interestingly, in his later Studies in the Psalms (1911) Rotherham reverted to Jehovah on the grounds of easy recognition.10

However, Rotherham was not the first in print with Yahweh. Just one year earlier in 1901* James McSwiney’s translation of the Psalms and Canticles used the form YaHWeh on occasion. If McSwiney should prove to be first this is perhaps a little unfair on Rotherham. His OT translation was already completed by 1894, when the publication of Ginsburg’s Critico-Massoretic Hebrew Text caused him to delay publication to revise the whole work. 11

Rotherham then gives reasons why the Name Yahweh must be restored, and from now on retained in the Scriptures:

1. Because its suppression was a mistake. So grave a mistake cannot be corrected too soon. An unwarrantable liberty has been taken; the path of humility is to retrace our steps. The facts have only to be known to justify this verdict, and to vindicate the propriety of not employing it in a new and independent translation.


.

 

[dlamberth]

There's only one God, so of course they are the same God.

LittleLambofJesus...I bet that you had to dig a bit in order to resurrect this thread. And by the looks of it, this thread has come back to life a couple of times.

.

 

[kiwimac]

Thread necromancy! Should Hannibal Traven outlaw it?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Thread necromancy! Should Hannibal Traven outlaw it?

And in 99 out of 100 cases, LittleLambofJesus is the culprit.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There's only one God, so of course they are the same God.

LittleLambofJesus...I bet that you had to dig a bit in order to resurrect this thread. And by the looks of it, this thread has come back to life a couple of times.

.

I didn't have to dig too deep.

A similar thread to this one was just recently created on the GT board, so I thought I would look for one on this board where Muslims could post.

http://www.christianforums.com/f80/
General Theology

http://www.christianforums.com/t7837951/
Is YAHWEH andALLAH the same person?

View Poll Results: Is YAHWEH andALLAH the same person?

YES

5 22.73%

NO

17 77.27%

NOT SURE

0 0%



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