Are Allah and Yaweh the same God?

[Islam_mulia]

If Joe were to hold up a rock and say "This is God, the God of Abraham" would you accept that?

Maybe you should use the following as a criterion of "God".

Say: He is God, the One and Only;
God, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him. (Quran 112)

 

[Montalban]

Maybe you should use the following as a criterion of "God".

How about this...

Say that he deceives people and

say that he allowed his prophet to (quite remarkably) have anything that he happened to want, anyway*


*whether that desire was for a woman related to him, or a child.

 

[GuardianShua]

Maybe you should use the following as a criterion of "God".

Say: He is God, the One and Only;
God, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him. (Quran 112)

Not all Christians are Trinitarians. Yahshua is "begotten" by a proclamation from God. It just means that he became a son of God by adoption. However, all of the males in heaven are called sons of God.

John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

John 13:16
Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

John 14:28
“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

Philippians 2:5-7
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Messiah yahshua: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
That word "equal" could be translated in other words, such as, "equated," or "counted," or "equality." And the word robbery can translate as obtainable. If Yahshua states that "The Father is greater than I" and refers to his Father in prayer as "You, the only true God," in (John 17:3.) It's kind of obvious that he's not equal to the one who sent him. "God exalted him," he did not exalt himself !

 

[GuardianShua]

Here is an alternate reading of Philippians 2:6. Who being in the form of God did not think equality with God as obtainable. God is the name of no one because it is a title. There are many gods, real, or imagined. Scholars insert the article "a" whenever they think it should apply. God, or, a god. All of the sons of God are gods because they have life immortal. Yahshua said he was a son of God, so therefore he was a god. Nowhere in scripture does Yahshua ever say he is the Father or Holy Spirit, whom the Father is the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit also being a name title and not a personal name. Yahwah informs us of only one personal name for Himself, and that name is Yahwah.

Yahwah reveals His name to Moses
Exodus 3:13-15.
13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?”
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.”
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you. That is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered, from generation to generation.”

 

[Montalban]

Not all Christians are Trinitarians. Yahshua is "begotten" by a proclamation from God. It just means that he became a son of God by adoption. However, all of the males in heaven are called sons of God.

He's begotten, not made

 

[GuardianShua]

He's begotten, not made

Psalm 40:6
Sacrifice and offering you did not desire— but my ears you have opened — burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.

Footnotes:a.Psalm c.Psalm 40:6 Hebrew; some Septuagint manuscripts but a body you have prepared for me

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

 

[GuardianShua]

In heaven Yahshua "was" called Peniel. He was the (Angel of the Lord / Messenger of Yahwah.)

Genesis 32:30
So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw (God / a god) face to face, and yet my life was spared.”

 

[gideon army]

Paul said one can come to understand God through creation.

Wow, you sure apostle paul said above? If what you said it's true then there must be something wrong with my Bible- why? GOD only gave 1 chapter to CREATION but spent 27 chapters (40 days & nights) on Redemption

Secondly you can't simply take the context of one book regarding one point and use it as a basis for whole Bible vs (insert other text).

John 10:35 (and the Scripture cannot be broken),

Maybe you wanna check the 'mitigating' circumstance that surrounds above statement by Jesus? A Clue for you-Whom was He addressing

What the author, man or God intended to get across in Genesis. What part of it is to be unquestioned.

Any Chance you've missed:-

Am sure that you might also know that the 4 gospels (Matt/ Mark/ Luke & John) depicts the 4 faces / banner of the children of Israel when they camp in the desert & are the 4 pictures hung inside the temple right?

Gospel of Matthew addresses specifically to the Jews hence the lineage of Jesus Christ goes back all the way to Abraham in which the promised KING of the Jews will come from. It depicts the picture of a Lion from which comes the Lion of Judah

Gospel of Mark depicts Jesus as the heavenly servant, hence there's no ancestry for you don't ask a servant his lineage. You will keep finding phrases like 'immediately' HE did this & Immediately He went .... It's all abbout the Son of GOD who came as men to serve men. It is also the picture of the ox

Gospel of Luke depicts Jesus as the perfect man to redeem men hence his ancestry traces all the way back to Adam & it is also the picture of a Man.

Gospel of John depicts Jesus as GOD, there's No Ancestry because one doesn't ask GOD His Lineage. Gospel of John depicts Jesus as the Eagle that soars high above & from above. Hence Goospel of John opens up with :-

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

You will also find only in the Gospel of John statement from Jesus Like:-

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

Incidentally 'I AM' is one of the names of GOD from which GOD introduce Himself to Moses in:-

Exd 3:13 Then Moses said to God, "Indeed, [when] I come to the children of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What [is] His name?' what shall I say to them?"

Exd 3:14 And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'

OT, sidetrack cos some nuggets for you. Ever wondered why GOD (Jesus) introduce Himself as 'I Am' & never i was or i will be? Simply because He is the very present help in trouble. Psa 46:1 & HE wants to be for you whatever you want HIM to be. He is effectively giving whosoever believe in HIM a blank cheque

Jesus signature 'The Begining & the End' or in the greek : Alpha & Omega or Hebrew Aleph Tav can be found in the Torah 1st line. Shall show you for comparision sake:-

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, [the] Beginning and [the] End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

The u/m is an exact scriptures in Hebrew text taken from interlinear bible.

אֵת

The above bolded in Red is the Hebrew Word for Aleph Tav (Begining & End/ First & Last). You will note that it appears in many places in the Torah from which Jews till today do not know why it is there & what does it signifies- that is down to them not accepting the Gospels.

Another nugget for you & all readers, Hebrew text in Gen 1:1 is exactly 7 words (numbers carry their own meaning, 7 means perfection or completion) All the 'Hebrew syllabus' were used up in the 1st sentence. This is another proof that the Torah & Bible are divinely inspired which is from GOD Himself

Additional nuggets for you, ever wonder why the Aleph Tav appears in the midst of the Scriptures?

If you read the Gospels then you'll know that Jesus loves to be In The MIDST He is always central.

Now as for the 4 banners (Gospels), this is what we (Believers) should do:-

Isa 59:19 So shall they fear The name of the LORD from the west, And His glory from the rising of the sun; When the enemy comes in like a flood, The Spirit of the LORD will lift up a standard against him.

Now, what is enemy? Proverty? Sickness? Broken marriage? Now Standard above is actually a BANNER from which period armies rally around their country/king banner or Standard. Jesus Himself is the Banner/Standard for ALL Knees shall bow & every name that can be named. If it can be named, it has to bow at the name of Jesus. Cancer/ Proverty & much more, ever name that is named & in the age to come which means everything has to bow/flee when the name of Jesus is used

Ok, went a big round to show you this pertaining to Jews,

Matthew 25:1-13 is famous parable of the 10 virgins from which am sure you've heard about. Actually throughout the ages christiandom have got it wrong. It is not referring to christians but to the Jews hence went the long way in explaining to you & other readers here. Praise be to GOD, 50% of the Jews will be saved when Jesus comes back.

Whatever i've stated above, Jews are surprised at these revelations for they themselves do not know hence:-

Hsa 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

Last but not the least:-

Proverbs 25:2 [It is] the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings [is] to search out a matter.

And ALL believers IN CHRIST (Born Again Christians) are kings/priests & prophets, ops- sorry, forgotten that you're NOT a king/priest/prophet since you're a non believer hence understand that you'll never understand

 

[GuardianShua]

Trinitarian doctrine was created by the Catholic church, and the scriptures were altered to make it appear that it is a biblical truth. It was the Judaizing Christians who were in possession of the original scriptures. They were killed and their scriptures burned, and the Catholics replaced their scriptures with their own version. Remember, it was the Catholics who canonized the scriptures.

 

[Montalban]

Psalm 40:6
Sacrifice and offering you did not desire— but my ears you have opened — burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.

Footnotes:a.Psalm c.Psalm 40:6 Hebrew; some Septuagint manuscripts but a body you have prepared for me

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

I don't get random bible verses in lieu of discussion. I accept that these just mean something obvious to you. Not to me.

 

[HeathenWarrior]

Allah is allegedly the old Moon god of the Arab pagans.

Yahweh is the storm god of the original Jewish pantheon. He became the national god of Israel after his cult took power.

So they seem to be very different gods. But then again, it matters little what gods you call on. What strengthens your heart is perfectly acceptable.

 

[steve_bakr]

If Joe were to hold up a rock and say "This is God, the God of Abraham" would you accept that?

Irrelevant analogy.

Peace of the Lord be with you.
"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

 

[GuardianShua]

Allah is allegedly the old Moon god of the Arab pagans.

Yahweh is the storm god of the original Jewish pantheon. He became the national god of Israel after his cult took power.

So they seem to be very different gods. But then again, it matters little what gods you call on. What strengthens your heart is perfectly acceptable.

Your info is wrong. Allah (aka Alilah) was never a moon god. According to 4300 hundred year old cuneiform tablets (Allah aka Alilah) was a trinity sun god. Also, there was no Jewish pantheon originally; that came at a later date. The crux of the Abrahamic faith has always been that Yahwah is the only true God, and that there are no others. Meaning, the only creator.

 

[Montalban]

Irrelevant analogy.

Not based on your criteria! You went by what the person(s)/group claimed.

Hong Xiuquan made the same claim, only his was more sophisticated than the 'man with the rock' scenario, and as well, he's not a mere hypothetical

 

[HeathenWarrior]

Your info is wrong. Allah (aka Alilah) was never a moon god. According to 4300 hundred year old cuneiform tablets (Allah aka Alilah) was a trinity sun god. Also, there was no Jewish pantheon originally; that came at a later date. The crux of the Abrahamic faith has always been that Yahwah is the only true God, and that there are no others. Meaning, the only creator.

Yahweh was the storm god of the Israelite pantheon, who may have been from the Canaanite pantheon. They were polytheistic long before they became monotheistic. History and archeology is what tells us this. There have been many tablets and other such things that describe other Israeli gods, as well as the wife of Yahweh, Asherah, the "Queen of Heaven".

 

[steve_bakr]

Not based on your criteria! You went by what the person(s)/group claimed.

Hong Xiuquan made the same claim, only his was more sophisticated than the 'man with the rock' scenario, and as well, he's not a mere hypothetical

Rather than using analogies, it is best to use evidence from the Quran and Bible. We simply view this matter from different angles. Your contention is that--if you find differences between the Quran and Bible characterizations of God--then that means they are talking about two different Gods. Whereas, my observation is that, because they both reference the God of Abraham, we are talking about different understandings of the same God.

We have both brought up our analogies. Rather than argue about it, we need simply to agree that we disagree. I understand what you are saying with your examples and analogies, I simply don't share your conclusions. I propose calling a truce to this debate rather than rehashing the same statements.

Peace of the Lord be with you.
"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

 

[brinny]

Yahweh was the storm god of the Israelite pantheon, who may have been from the Canaanite pantheon. They were polytheistic long before they became monotheistic. History and archeology is what tells us this. There have been many tablets and other such things that describe other Israeli gods, as well as the wife of Yahweh, Asherah, the "Queen of Heaven".

El Elyon (the Most High). is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He shares His name with no other. It is an abomination to call Him or liken Him to a man-made god.

 

[gideon army]

MichaelTheeArchAngel[/b];58930918]Trinitarian doctrine was created by the Catholic church, and the scriptures were altered to make it appear that it is a biblical truth.

steve_bakr[/b];58926468]gideon's army,

You are taking Psalm 80 far away from its original context.

Gentlemen,

Kindly stay the course & do not deviate from TS original post. If you guys wanna DEBATE about scriptures, then may i suggest you start a thread in

(1) Covenant Theology - Christian Forums

or in:-

(2) Christian Scriptures - Christian Forums

If you guys decides to start a thread there, kindly notify me via PM for i'll love & breath to DEBATE Scriptures ESPECIALLY with catholics

Steve_bakr, may i bring to your remembrence the u/m post dedicated to you?

Please read slowly & carefully, tried my best to not mince my words

hahaha Then may i assume that you do not subscribe to the following?

2 Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness

Actually agree wholeheartely with you in point blank engagement (short & sharp) hence i thank the other contributor directly.

Answering you arise out of need to be courteous towards you Doubt it ever affects you hence my answers are measured- why?

Ecc 5:3 For a dream comes through much activity, And a fool's voice [is known] by [his] many words

Romans 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

Hence i endeavor to be as precise & methodical as possible using scriptures & scriptures alone to compare & contrast everything & anything for the world is peripheral to the scriptures

 

[steve_bakr]

Gentlemen,

Kindly stay the course & do not deviate from TS original post. If you guys wanna DEBATE about scriptures, then may i suggest you start a thread in

(1) Covenant Theology - Christian Forums

or in:-

(2) Christian Scriptures - Christian Forums

If you guys decides to start a thread there, kindly notify me via PM for i'll love & breath to DEBATE Scriptures ESPECIALLY with catholics

Steve_bakr, may i bring to your remembrence the u/m post dedicated to you?

Please read slowly & carefully, tried my best to not mince my words

Scriptures need to be taken in proper context so they are not misapplied.

Peace of the Lord be with you.
"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

 

[GuardianShua]

Yahweh was the storm god of the Israelite pantheon, who may have been from the Canaanite pantheon. They were polytheistic long before they became monotheistic. History and archeology is what tells us this. There have been many tablets and other such things that describe other Israeli gods, as well as the wife of Yahweh, Asherah, the "Queen of Heaven".

This is the part that is in error. Quote: "They were polytheistic long before they became monotheistic." They were monotheistic in the beginning. The Jews who would not adhere to that were put to death. The Abrahamic faith has always been that Yahwah is the only true God. The fact that there were Jews who tried to join Paganism to Yahwah, that does not change the original belief that Yahwah is only.