Can we be honest here? (concerning Christmas)

[daughtertotheLord]

Looking back to erase them... why? Remove the tall tale of the Dec 25th birthday, etc.. and instead remember the family times that are good. Family is always good no matter when... Make new memories by having the early celebration of Hanakkah in which you invite the family over to celebrate... Good food, good conversation... lots of love and hugs for everyone.. and rejoice in the gift of light.. or as Yeshua said... living water..

This is exactly what I do. Hey you can still have candles and fairy lights and flowers, candles especially are a part of Jewish celebrations and even give gifts to those you love, at times other than Christmas if you want, just in a different way. I come from a mixed Jewish/Gentile background. When my grandparents were alive one being Jewish and one being Gentile, there weren't any Messianic places of worship, so they kinda did a bit of this and a bit of that and made their own way to celebrate how they believed it should be. Of course it was flawed and all very fragmented and too for my family, or myself at least, it led to a kind of religious identity crisis until very recently even. I have been through a kind of transition in my faith you could say over the years. It was like I could identify myself greatly with aspects of being Christian yet in other ways not at all. I am Jewish but don't speak Hebrew. I have kinda felt like I was not in this tent covering or not that tent cover just in kinda limbo in my beliefs having no praticular place to root them. Even at times feeling vey isolated excepting with my Messiah there was always a consistancy.

It has taken me a long time to sort out in my mind where I am at culturaly. Now though I can finially take ownership of being a Jewish believer, Messianic style. I still have my struggles more cultural than faith based. What I did decide though along the way was that I was going to carve out my way to enjoying the Jewish celebrations with my own way of adding my own personal sparkle and style to them. In fact if anything I more enjoy the festivals now even, because of that I bring what I loved to the shabbat table every Friday dinner time. Not once a year but weekly. My family too are not even all believers, but they like it and it is a really family orientated time, something very much at the base of being both a believer and Jewish. It's lovely. I don't see it as a missing of what was as such, but as a start of whats new and wonderful. I am going to start even making themes for the Shabbat dinner table. Like for example when it snows outside I will have a blue and white ice type table room themes and even add fake snow to the table cloth. Those candles we use for Shabbat can be surrounded by the spakle of ice like glitter on the flowers. Snow belongs to everyone not just as a Christmas theme. If you get my meaning, as in every shabbat even can be a beautiful celebration of your faith. Make new memories and don't even think of what your missing but what your gaining. My family love the Shabbat dinner specials I do. I am just incredibly organised in how it do it to fit all the Shabbat rules I adhere to. I make a big deal of Shabbat and we love it.

I think we can at times get a bit hung up about things and because we see certain things attached to the notion of Christmas celebrations we tend to think of them as belonging to Christmas. Not true, our Jewish celebrations can be wonderful too. I wouldn't say put up a Christmas tree up, a father christmas or a reindeer, not at all and I am not suggesting anything of the sort, I have kinda gone through a transition where I because of my cultural background mix I'v been all over the place in my mix of celebrations, But I got to a point recently where I thought no I'm Jewish and I will own that, but nobody can tell me I can't have seasonal flowers or add my own Jewish music or theme to my room. it's just a case of making new memories. I love the whole idea too of cleaning the home from top to bottom on a Friday fit for that special divine visitor.

I was only today looking out the window with all the leaves of fall golden and falling. Thinking of the pumpkin. Now pumpkins are a fall item not hallowen. I think at times we can get a bit conditioned by marketing. Like in the supermarket recently I was looking at a pumpkin thinking hmmm pumpkin soup. Then hallowen flashed through my mind which I most certainly do not in any way shape or form celebrate. Then I thought to myself hey don't be stupid if I want a pumpkin and fall themed dinner that's exactly what I will have. Those pumpkins where sent to eat and enjoy and that's exactly what I will do. The Jewish too know how to celebrate and also when to be humble about it too. Just enjoy it, that's what I do. Enjoy the new memories. Sorry the reply is so long by the way you just got me thinking.

 

[yonah_mishael]

:o



PARAGRAPH BREAKS!!!

 

[Heber]

:o



PARAGRAPH BREAKS!!!

Paragraph what?

 

[JRSut1000]

Paragraph breaks, meaning instead of the one huge paragraph, it would be separated by hitting enter.

Like this.

See?

Haha!

Anyways, back on topic I can see why it's really hard to isolate ourselves from everything Christmas especially when our families [of origin] celebrate these things and its family time. But didn't Y'shua say that "Whoever loves mother and father more than me is not worthy of me"? Or "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life."

 

[MessianicMommy]

JRSuit, you asked about those of us not celebrating - I come from a very fundamental baptist/southern baptist background. You know that group - Easter and Xmas are the big two that everyone has to celebrate.

Well it's been about 11 years now. I don't miss it. The kids don't know it, but know Hanukkah (3 and 2 yrs in Nov). My eldest will be hearing about Xmas at kindergarten this year. They want to do a gift exchange and I am uncomfortable with that idea. I didn't do secret santa or other gift swaps at jobs, I don't want to begin that now for the kids, so we are still working out what we will do.

Here in Germany, the Xmas season starts in November with St Martin's Day (really big here in our area), then St Nick's day on Dec 6, and we have the different Christian denoms celebrating everything from St Lucia's Day to Epiphany on Jan 6. Not until Jan 12 is it all over. So 3 full months of Xmas holiday. None of which that we partake in.

My inlaws are non-religious (FIL is agnostic, MIL is non-practicing Catholic), so they just want us over for dinner on Xmas (which is Xmas Eve here). We go for dinner and stick around, but we don't do gifts. It's just a day to get together with everyone and relax. It's been that way for four years.

My family in the US that are not Messianic, they don't understand, but are accommodating. We've not really gotten a lot of cards, or even any gifts since I quit celebrating. We exchange greetings and love, and that's really all we need.

As far as remembering, I just remember it as a very harried, stressful time - where there was a lot of disappointment because the focus was on gift giving and whether we had enough $ to make it through the season. Sure there were some nice times, and I remember it just like that. "Oh, that was a nice December that year". Is there nostalgia where I wish there was a tree in the house, or santa and reindeer? no.


The biggest struggle was my first four years where I was convicted to cease celebrating, and my immediate family did not understand. As an unmarried person still living at home - I got a lot of grief and no one understood why I did not want to participate or help put up any of the decorations. Now they do, and none of the decorations come out any more.

 

[daughtertotheLord]

:o



PARAGRAPH BREAKS!!!

Please try not to be too critical, so easily. After all we are supposed to be all of us believers on here. I am disbled and possibly not as educated as some on here, and in the midst of trying to get the right words up in my reply I sometimes forget smaller details. Thank you for your patience you will notice I have added paragraphs especially for you.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Please try not to be too critical, so easily. After all we are supposed to be all of us believers on here. I am disbled and possibly not as educated as some on here, and in the midst of trying to get the right words up in my reply I sometimes forget smaller details. Thank you for your patience you will notice I have added paragraphs especially for you.

Thank you. Now I'll go read it. I can't read a huge chunk of text that isn't broken logically. Sentences need to be broken with periods and other punctuation marks; and, paragraphs need to be broken with space. Otherwise, people cannot be expected to read it. It puts your head into a tailspin.

Being a believer or not doesn't have much to do with being able to read unbroken text.

Thanks for breaking the paragraphs.

 

[yedida]

Please try not to be too critical, so easily. After all we are supposed to be all of us believers on here. I am disbled and possibly not as educated as some on here, and in the midst of trying to get the right words up in my reply I sometimes forget smaller details. Thank you for your patience you will notice I have added paragraphs especially for you.

Thank you. It looks much easier to read now.

I'm one of those who have sight problems so loooong paragraphs hurt the eyes. Sometimes I'll even split a paragraph into without a line break just to shorten it a bit. And then add a line break between bonafide paragraphs.
This just makes it so much easier to follow on this type venue.

BTW, welcome to MJ forum. We're happy to have you here and pray you will be edified.

 

[daughtertotheLord]

Thank you. It looks much easier to read now.

I'm one of those who have sight problems so loooong paragraphs hurt the eyes. Sometimes I'll even split a paragraph into without a line break just to shorten it a bit. And then add a line break between bonafide paragraphs.
This just makes it so much easier to follow on this type venue.

BTW, welcome to MJ forum. We're happy to have you here and pray you will be edified.

Thank you

 

[TalmideiYeshua]

It is tough to move away from the traditions we know as a child because of the fond memories we have. However, it is obvious these holidays are steeped in pagan roots and are not honoring to Adonai. It's important for us to give our children the right upbringing and if we honor the Feasts of Adonai and build God-ly traditions into their memory bank then they will grow up without our preconceived notions that have pagan roots. The Torah is everlasting, like Yeshua's sacrifice for our salvation, don't compromise with the Kool-aid of the world. Turn the tide and press into the scriptures and follow those things Adonai commanded us to follow. Baruch Hashem. Talmideiyeshua dot com.

 

[JRSut1000]

Thank you Talmidei for responding to my exact question. I know the things of old SHOULD look different to me even detestable. But I still sometimes look back fondly on the memories of my childhood. The old fashioned decorations, the way the lights looked at night during freshly fallen snow, etc... it was just a major part of my life for waaaaay longer than Torah has been.

 

[Tea]

We haven't celebrated christmas in 17 years, and in the beginning it was hard. We decided to make the feasts special times, and decorate the house for each of the different feasts.

Why don't you start making your own traditions for the feasts. Choose special music, traditional and messianic, get new decorations applicable to the feasts, flowers, food, lights, etc, and make the feasts days special for your family.

Start small and add new things/ideas each year, and build up the excitement in the household leading up to the feasts.

 

[JRSut1000]

Tea, great ideas!

In a way, we are trying to do these things. We've been inviting people to join in the celebration and we make a big deal of it. Lots of food, good worship selections, a teaching, and a super clean (if possible) house. I didnt think about decorating though, that's a super duper idea!

 

[TanteBelle]

How many of you coming from other denominational backgrounds/families in a way miss the aura of Christmas/Easter, particularly the celebration with friends and family? I want us to be honest, has this ever been a struggle for you since coming to Torah? How do you deal with happy childhood memories involving these holidays?

How did I get over all those happy childhood memories?? We made even happier ones with sukkot! It was a struggle for me at first but only because I didn't know what sukkot was really about and what was involved. I wouldn't trade sukkot for an entire year of Christmas!!!

 

[rsduncan]

I have not been comfortable with the idea of celebrating Christmas for a long time because of what I have heard about it as being paganism with a Christian chaser. I do think about my L-rd and Savior with gratitude in my heart for what He has done to effect my salvation, but no lights, no tree, etc...

 

[xDenax]

We still see our families on Christmas. That's not a big deal to me. It's just like any other get together which we also do on Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and New Years Eve. We'll go to my husband's Grandparents house or his parents house on Christmas Eve and we'll spend the night with his parents. The next morning we'll have some sort of fluffy pancake which I cannot eat (I'll have some eggs probably) and we'll sit around talking, drinking coffee, etc. We don't do gifts. Later his mother's family will come over and we'll have dinner and play games. If you took the tree out of the picture and the lights off the front of the house you wouldn't know it's Christmas. I mean their house of course, not ours.

 

[Devri]

There is a time and a season for all things. When I was a child, I acted as a child. When I was a Christian, I knew no better. But when one learns the truth we are bound to follow truth.

I haven't been a fan of Christmas for a very long time. It has become so commercialized and puts undue stress on families through massive debt just to "fit in" with the Smiths.

For the last several years my family has been getting back to the basics where we make gifts for each other rather than spending massive amounts of money on junk that will most likely make it's way to the trash the first week.

I celebrate the freedom NOT to have to do that anymore. Oh sure, I will give gifts to the kiddies but I will not be doing so under the thumb of St. Nick, the Christmas Tree and Ho, Ho, Ho...

Call me a "Scrooge" if you like...I'm much happier following the Torah than I ever was celebrating a Pagan holiday.

 

[anisavta]

How do you deal with happy childhood memories involving these holidays?

You remember them as a part of you. Who we are is made up of our memories(for some of us there are years and years of memories). Christmas, growing up was a part of my history. It was my mother's favorite time and she did it up big. I still remember the songs, aromas, activities...
When I discovered my assimilated Jewish heritage it was difficult for me. I felt guilty that I celebrated Christmas. But I'm learning that although I no longer celebrate the day, I still know that Yeshua was born (probably during Sukkot - and that's another thread that's been beaten to death).
I'm a musician so the music still has a place in my heart. But I have a hard time not analyzing the words of the Christian songs and picking apart all the sentimental untruths. And our family still goes out Christmas light looking.
My daughter still celebrates Christmas with hubby's family and we do a Chanukah celebration so our Grands can light the chanukiyah. My son's wife's family does a Christmas brunch complete with a "visit from Santa Claus" and everyone is expected to join in. So DH and I join in, and everyone knows we're the Jews who tolerate the Christmas traditions. Then DH and I have a nice Chinese dinner - just the two of us and know we've continued to build bridges.

 

[ContraMundum]

Thank you Talmidei for responding to my exact question. I know the things of old SHOULD look different to me even detestable. But I still sometimes look back fondly on the memories of my childhood. The old fashioned decorations, the way the lights looked at night during freshly fallen snow, etc... it was just a major part of my life for waaaaay longer than Torah has been.

A couple of things...

Put yourself in the shoes of the Jewish believers that came before, and the way some of us still live. We came from the opposite end of the spectrum: no Christmas at all. Our childhoods have a different set of memories and milestones.

Yet, I am now a very happy celebrator of Christmas. Why? I got saved on Christmas day! I've seen others come to faith as well. My church uses it to reach out to the community, and we do good work for them. The non-religious aspect of the holiday is played down, but still useful for cultural outreach and many people have great memories of Christmas- so we don't make them haters of their good memories by talking against the excesses of gift-giving and materialism and so forth. We preach Christ, and all the other stuff looks insignificant at that point.

Have I let go of Hannukah? No way. Hannukah reminds me of what some of my ancestors had to go through to get me here and prepare for the Messiah etc. It's part of my ethnic identity, my tradition, my culture. it is compatible with Christianity, and Jesus took part in the Festival during His life.

I have found a balance. I think you might consider finding a balance that doesn't grieve you and that respects your own personal background as well. You should not let a fundamentalist version of religion destroy the good things you have in your life from the celebration of a holiday. Leave that kind of joyless living to the Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[yedida]

We still see our families on Christmas. That's not a big deal to me. It's just like any other get together which we also do on Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and New Years Eve. We'll go to my husband's Grandparents house or his parents house on Christmas Eve and we'll spend the night with his parents. The next morning we'll have some sort of fluffy pancake which I cannot eat (I'll have some eggs probably) and we'll sit around talking, drinking coffee, etc. We don't do gifts. Later his mother's family will come over and we'll have dinner and play games. If you took the tree out of the picture and the lights off the front of the house you wouldn't know it's Christmas. I mean their house of course, not ours.

Exactly! The day proper to you is just a day. Only difference in it from another day is you're pretty guaranteed to be busy seeing bunches of family members and old acquaintances. That can't be all bad!