Are Allah and Yaweh the same God?

[Montalban]

Al-Lah is a great deceiver - they even say this themselves. He 'caused the Jews' to believe that they'd killed Jesus (when Moslems claim that Jesus wasn't killed) therefore their god tricked the Jews

 

[steve_bakr]

Al-Lah is a great deceiver - they even say this themselves. He 'caused the Jews' to believe that they'd killed Jesus (when Moslems claim that Jesus wasn't killed) therefore their god tricked the Jews

It sounds like you are reaching for anti-Islamic material without.honestly trying to understand the religion or the context you are reading.

According to the Quranic material, the reason for Allah's deception was to save the life of Jesus. It is.part of Islamic belief that Jesus was taken up alive to heaven and will return to earth on the Day of Judgment.

Peace

 

[brinny]

It sounds like you are reaching for anti-Islamic material without.honestly trying to understand the religion or the context you are reading.

According to the Quranic material, the reason for Allah's deception was to save the life of Jesus. It is.part of Islamic belief that Jesus was taken up alive to heaven and will return to earth on the Day of Judgment.

Peace

Does Allah not refer to himself as the greatest deceiver?

 

[steve_bakr]

Does Allah not refer to himself as the greatest deceiver?

No, but He does allow people to go astray when they refuse to turn to Him. Allah has 99 Names. Some them are The Reality, The Forgiver of Sins, The Inner Truth, etc. Allah gives life but He also causes death, according to His will. Before He punishes a people, He always sends a Messenger to warn the people to.change their ways. He punishes people, but His mercy always comes first.

Peace

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny

Does Allah not refer to himself as the greatest deceiver?

No, but He does allow people to go astray when they refuse to turn to Him. Allah has 99 Names. Some them are The Reality, The Forgiver of Sins, The Inner Truth, etc. Allah gives life but He also causes death, according to His will. Before He punishes a people, He always sends a Messenger to warn the people to.change their ways. He punishes people, but His mercy always comes first.

Peace

Nowhere in the Quar'an he describes his attribute as the greatest of deceivers ?

 

[GuardianShua]

The Muslims believe that Allah and Yahwah are the same God, but that is not correct. Allah was worshipped as a Pagan god before Mohammad declared him to be the only God. Mohammad said: "you already believe that Allah is a god, why not believe that he is the only God." God's only personal name which is Yahwah is not in the Quran. The ancient people of Arabia hated Yahwah because He would not curse the Jews for them.

 

[Montalban]

It sounds like you are reaching for anti-Islamic material without.honestly trying to understand the religion or the context you are reading.

According to the Quranic material, the reason for Allah's deception was to save the life of Jesus. It is.part of Islamic belief that Jesus was taken up alive to heaven and will return to earth on the Day of Judgment.

Peace

So you're saying he had good reason to deceive the Jews?

How's that negate the statement that he deceived the Jews?

 

[Montalban]

No, but He does allow people to go astray when they refuse to turn to Him. Allah has 99 Names.

There's a difference between

allowing
and
causing

Some them are The Reality, The Forgiver of Sins, The Inner Truth, etc. Allah gives life but He also causes death, according to His will. Before He punishes a people, He always sends a Messenger to warn the people to.change their ways. He punishes people, but His mercy always comes first.

Not quite. With the Jews he actively deceived them. It says he CAUSED THEM TO BELIEVE that they'd killed Jesus.

Qur'an 3:54
And they cheated/deceived and God cheated/deceived, and God (is) the best (of) the cheaters/deceivers
Further quotes here
Allah the Best Deceiver - WikiIslam

Peace

Submission to you, too!

 

[Mess]

Short and only right answer, No.

 

[steve_bakr]

There's a difference between

allowing
and
causing

Not quite. With the Jews he actively deceived them. It says he CAUSED THEM TO BELIEVE that they'd killed Jesus.

Qur'an 3:54
And they cheated/deceived and God cheated/deceived, and God (is) the best (of) the cheaters/deceivers
Further quotes here
Allah the Best Deceiver - WikiIslam

Submission to you, too!

What Quran translation is that quotation from? The quotation is not correct. A more correct translation would be:

"They planned and He planned. And Allah is the best of planners."

Peace

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Al-Lah is a great deceiver - they even say this themselves. He 'caused the Jews' to believe that they'd killed Jesus (when Moslems claim that Jesus wasn't killed) therefore their god tricked the Jews

That is true the Muslims do not believe Jesus was killed.

However, from my understanding of these verses, unlike the Muslims, the Jews knew Jesus had been both killed and resurrected as shown in Matt 28. So in actuality, I would think it would have been those Jews that later deceived the Muslims?

Matt 28:13 saying, "say ye!, that His Disciples having come by night stole Him, we being asleep;
14 and if this be heard by the governor, we will persuade him, and you keep free from anxiety."
15 And they having received the money, did as they were taught, and this account was spread abroad among Jews till this day.

And Paul implies that it is God that sends a strong delusion to both Jews and Muslims to believe the falsehood that Jesus did not resurrect. Thoughts?

2 Thess 2:11 and because of this, God is sending them an in-working of deception into to believe them to the falsehood

Not quite. With the Jews he actively deceived them. It says he CAUSED THEM TO BELIEVE that they'd killed Jesus.

Qur'an 3:54
And they cheated/deceived and God cheated/deceived, and God (is) the best (of) the cheaters/deceivers
Further quotes here
Allah the Best Deceiver - WikiIslam

Submission to you, too!

What Quran translation is that quotation from? The quotation is not correct. A more correct translation would be:

"They planned and He planned. And Allah is the best of planners."

Peace

 

[steve_bakr]

Nowhere in the Quar'an he describes his attribute as the greatest of deceivers ?

No. That idea comes from an incorrect translation.

Peace

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny

Nowhere in the Quar'an he describes his attribute as the greatest of deceivers ?

No. That idea comes from an incorrect translation.

Peace

please elaborate on the incorrect translation. Thank you.

 

[brinny]

it appears, Steve, that you have not studied nor delved as deeply as you thought, into the Quar'an.

How extensively have you spoken to ex-muslims?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What Quran translation is that quotation from? The quotation is not correct. A more correct translation would be:

"They planned and He planned. And Allah is the best of planners."

Peace

Originally Posted by steve_bakr No. That idea comes from an incorrect translation.

Peace

it appears, Steve, that you have not studied nor delved as deeply as you thought, into the Quar'an.

How extensively have you spoken to ex-muslims?

A lot of that also seems to happen with the different translations of the Bible within Christianity today eheh.

There was one member here awhile back that seemed to have an extensive knowledge of the Koran and Arabic....ApplePie7.

http://www.christianforums.com/search.php?searchid=4527346

He started some great threads and this is one that was extremely interesting, tho I suppose one could just as easily debunk what he says:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7425729/
Jesus’ crucifixion till death confirmed in Koran

Jesus’ Crucifixion and Resurrection

86.5 So, the human looks upon that which was created the inner man. (The reason for the gathering of the souls: Jesus is viewed upon the Cross)
86.6 The inner man was created out of water pouring forth at once. (Jesus’ Crucifixion & death upon the Cross)

86.7 He emerges from amidst the Cross and the grave. Or…86.7 He emerges from between the backbone and the ribs. (Jesus’ Crucifixion & Resurrection)
86.8 Truly Him above, He returned Him to the present state of existence after death, truly possessing power. (Jesus’ Singular Resurrection)

The authors of the Koran confirm, in no uncertain terms, that Jesus Christ was crucified until death upon the cross and that He was singularly resurrected.

There is even mention of the piercing of Jesus’ side, in which water pours forth, – confirming that Jesus died upon the Cross – and that man is a new creation in Him.

 

[homeofmew]

Allah is the Arabic word for God so technically it could be.

However the "Allah" of the Koran has Mohammad as his prophet, no where is Christianity does Mohammed show up.

It is believed by many Christians this entire Israel Vs Palestine war thing started was with Esau (Palestine) and Jacob (Israel).

 

[Montalban]

What Quran translation is that quotation from? The quotation is not correct. A more correct translation would be:

"They planned and He planned. And Allah is the best of planners."

Peace

Excepting for the fact that he CAUSED the Jews to believe an untruth.

If you want even his follower encouraged lying - in this case in order to murder someone:
Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Now as we have followed him, we do not want to leave him unless and until we see how his end is going to be. Now we want you to lend us a camel load or two of food." (Some difference between narrators about a camel load or two.) Kab said, "Yes, (I will lend you), but you should mortgage something to me." Muhammad bin Mas-lama and his companion said, "What do you want?" Ka'b replied, "Mortgage your women to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our women to you and you are the most handsome of the 'Arabs?" Ka'b said, "Then mortgage your sons to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our sons to you? Later they would be abused by the people's saying that so-and-so has been mortgaged for a camel load of food. That would cause us great disgrace, but we will mortgage our arms to you." Muhammad bin Maslama and his companion promised Kab that Muhammad would return to him. He came to Kab at night along with Kab's foster brother, Abu Na'ila. Kab invited them to come into his fort, and then he went down to them. His wife asked him, "Where are you going at this time?" Kab replied, "None but Muhammad bin Maslama and my (foster) brother Abu Na'ila have come." His wife said, "I hear a voice as if dropping blood is from him, Ka'b said. "They are none but my brother Muhammad bin Maslama and my foster brother Abu Naila. A generous man should respond to a call at night even if invited to be killed." Muhammad bin Maslama went with two men. (Some narrators mention the men as 'Abu bin Jabr. Al Harith bin Aus and Abbad bin Bishr). So Muhammad bin Maslama went in together with two men, and sail to them, "When Ka'b comes, I will touch his hair and smell it, and when you see that I have got hold of his head, strip him. I will let you smell his head." Kab bin Al-Ashraf came down to them wrapped in his clothes, and diffusing perfume. Muhammad bin Maslama said. " have never smelt a better scent than this. Ka'b replied. "I have got the best 'Arab women who know how to use the high class of perfume." Muhammad bin Maslama requested Ka'b "Will you allow me to smell your head?" Ka'b said, "Yes." Muhammad smelt it and made his companions smell it as well. Then he requested Ka'b again, "Will you let me (smell your head)?" Ka'b said, "Yes." When Muhammad got a strong hold of him, he said (to his companions), "Get at him!" So they killed him and went to the Prophet and informed him. (Abu Rafi) was killed after Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf."
Center for Muslim-Jewish Engagement

So if one ignores that al-Lah caused them to believe something in the Koran, and that his 'messenger' encouraged lying, you'd have a point

 

[Montalban]

it appears, Steve, that you have not studied nor delved as deeply as you thought, into the Quar'an.

How extensively have you spoken to ex-muslims?

Possibly he's also unaware of the Islamic practice of al-Takeyya (sometimes rendered al-Taqiyya or taqiyah) which is lying for religious purposes.

Lying for your god is acceptable, here's more...

Volume 4, Book 55, Number 577:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "Abraham did not tell a lie except on three occasions."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/055.sbt.html#004.055.546
Volume 4, Book 55, Number 578:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Abraham did not tell a lie except on three occasion. Twice for the Sake of Allah when he said, "I am sick," and he said, "(I have not done this but) the big idol has done it." The (third was) that while Abraham and Sarah (his wife) were going (on a journey) they passed by (the territory of) a tyrant. Someone said to the tyrant, "This man (i.e. Abraham) is accompanied by a very charming lady." So, he sent for Abraham and asked him about Sarah saying, "Who is this lady?" Abraham said, "She is my sister." Abraham went to Sarah and said, "O Sarah! There are no believers on the surface of the earth except you and I. This man asked me about you and I have told him that you are my sister, so don't contradict my statement." The tyrant then called Sarah and when she went to him, he tried to take hold of her with his hand, but (his hand got stiff and) he was confounded. He asked Sarah. "Pray to Allah for me, and I shall not harm you." So Sarah asked Allah to cure him and he got cured. He tried to take hold of her for the second time, but (his hand got as stiff as or stiffer than before and) was more confounded. He again requested Sarah, "Pray to Allah for me, and I will not harm you." Sarah asked Allah again and he became alright. He then called one of his guards (who had brought her) and said, "You have not brought me a human being but have brought me a devil." The tyrant then gave Hajar as a girl-servant to Sarah. Sarah came back (to Abraham) while he was praying. Abraham, gesturing with his hand, asked, "What has happened?" She replied, "Allah has spoiled the evil plot of the infidel (or immoral person) and gave me Hajar for service." (Abu Huraira then addressed his listeners saying, "That (Hajar) was your mother, O Bani Ma-is-Sama (i.e. the Arabs, the descendants of Ishmael, Hajar's son)."

 

[Montalban]

Bump - The founder of Islam allowing someone to lie in order to murder someone

Excepting for the fact that he CAUSED the Jews to believe an untruth.

If you want even his follower encouraged lying - in this case in order to murder someone:
Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Now as we have followed him, we do not want to leave him unless and until we see how his end is going to be. Now we want you to lend us a camel load or two of food." (Some difference between narrators about a camel load or two.) Kab said, "Yes, (I will lend you), but you should mortgage something to me." Muhammad bin Mas-lama and his companion said, "What do you want?" Ka'b replied, "Mortgage your women to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our women to you and you are the most handsome of the 'Arabs?" Ka'b said, "Then mortgage your sons to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our sons to you? Later they would be abused by the people's saying that so-and-so has been mortgaged for a camel load of food. That would cause us great disgrace, but we will mortgage our arms to you." Muhammad bin Maslama and his companion promised Kab that Muhammad would return to him. He came to Kab at night along with Kab's foster brother, Abu Na'ila. Kab invited them to come into his fort, and then he went down to them. His wife asked him, "Where are you going at this time?" Kab replied, "None but Muhammad bin Maslama and my (foster) brother Abu Na'ila have come." His wife said, "I hear a voice as if dropping blood is from him, Ka'b said. "They are none but my brother Muhammad bin Maslama and my foster brother Abu Naila. A generous man should respond to a call at night even if invited to be killed." Muhammad bin Maslama went with two men. (Some narrators mention the men as 'Abu bin Jabr. Al Harith bin Aus and Abbad bin Bishr). So Muhammad bin Maslama went in together with two men, and sail to them, "When Ka'b comes, I will touch his hair and smell it, and when you see that I have got hold of his head, strip him. I will let you smell his head." Kab bin Al-Ashraf came down to them wrapped in his clothes, and diffusing perfume. Muhammad bin Maslama said. " have never smelt a better scent than this. Ka'b replied. "I have got the best 'Arab women who know how to use the high class of perfume." Muhammad bin Maslama requested Ka'b "Will you allow me to smell your head?" Ka'b said, "Yes." Muhammad smelt it and made his companions smell it as well. Then he requested Ka'b again, "Will you let me (smell your head)?" Ka'b said, "Yes." When Muhammad got a strong hold of him, he said (to his companions), "Get at him!" So they killed him and went to the Prophet and informed him. (Abu Rafi) was killed after Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf."
Center for Muslim-Jewish Engagement

So if one ignores that al-Lah caused them to believe something in the Koran, and that his 'messenger' encouraged lying, you'd have a point

 

[FredVB]

Allah is the Arabic word for God so technically it could be.

However the "Allah" of the Koran has Mohammad as his prophet, no where is Christianity does Mohammed show up.

It is believed by many Christians this entire Israel Vs Palestine war thing started was with Esau (Palestine) and Jacob (Israel).

"Allah" is Arabic for the one God, as I have indeed been saying, so it is fine for Christians speaking Arabic to acknowledge Yahweh God as "Allah". The "Allah" of Mohamed and the Muslims is a being that is not Yahweh God, teaching other things that are very contrary. I have read the Bible, a lot, and even the Koran, I can see those differences.

I do not think to much should be read into the tension between Jacob and Esau. The Palestinians are likely not, for the most part, full descendants of Esau. The direct descendents of Esau were the Edomites, most of whom were wiped out a long time ago. Ishmaelites, though, are the people that became known as Arabians (not the same meaning as Arabs, which is more inclusive of many peoples united in culture and language).