I'm tired of giving religionists a pass

[Phred]

For far too long religionists have been given a pass. I don't know if it's out of respect or fear or what but... why in the world do most people just give up when a religionist says something about their god? The gods in this world have not been shown to exist, they have not left evidence behind to give us any proof of their being... there is no reason to suggest that we take them seriously at all. Yet, time after time a religonist will inject god into an argument and it is tacitly acknowledged as a being that exists and has properties that we all agree upon.

I do not agree. Nobody can state one true fact about God or any god. Not one. So when discussing the Big Bang you cannot say that "perhaps God created it." You cannot just say that "God is self-existing" when asked where God came from. There is no proof or evidence other than you THINK so. I wouldn't accept this kind of logic from a six-year old.

If, for example, you want to claim that life cannot come from non-life thus a deity is required then you need to show:

1. which deity did the deed
2. how the deity came to be
3. if you claim the deity is eternal then you need to show evidence of same
4. and then you need to show HOW the deity did the deed

All these things are provided with science. If you want to play in the ballpark it's time you were held to the same standard.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

I share the same sentiment. However, superstitions and supernatural beliefs and customs to explain what we have not understood, is too far ingrained into our collective human psyche. I won't go so far as to say it's genetic, but people like Dennett and Harris and Stenger are doing important research into why and how the human brain is susceptible to "belief." It does seem to me that unbelief is the fastest growing trend, which bodes well for humanity. It may take one hundred years or one thousand (if we're still around), but I do believe at some point in time, superstitions, at least in modern societies, will cease to exist, and be looked upon in much the same way we consider Greek and Roman mythologies.

 

[Davian]

I'm at step 0: Show that it possible for deities to exist.

 

[selfinflikted]

I also agree with this. I think religionists are given the appearance of a 'free pass' because, honestly, there's no use in arguing with them. You know as well as I do that it's completely futile.

 

[IndieVisible]

I'm tired of giving non religionists a pass! Who do they think they are? These hell bound sinners who reject God have the audacity to chastise believers! Go figure

 

[Cute Tink]

I'm tired of giving non religionists a pass! Who do they think they are? These hell bound sinners who reject God have the audacity to chastise believers! Go figure

At least the downward trip saves on gas.

I don't know that they are given a pass, really. There seem to be lots of people willing to jump on their statements and demand evidence/proof.

I also agree with this. I think religionists are given the appearance of a 'free pass' because, honestly, there's no use in arguing with them. You know as well as I do that it's completely futile.

I think this is more to the point, at least after a while.

 

[Delphiki]

I'm tired of giving non religionists a pass! Who do they think they are? These hell bound sinners who reject God have the audacity to chastise believers! Go figure

Here's the interesting thing about it all. Any one of us non-believers can prove the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists on any and all the same grounds you claim your God exists. We find ourselves at an even draw (sometimes even winning in some cases) when debating whether your God, or one made up for the sole purpose of illustrating the irrationality of making such an incredible and baseless claim.

However, when creationism is presented by it's proponents as "science", it falls apart when the same scrutiny is applied to it as any other hypothesis. So what do creationists do? Claim that science as we actually know it "isn't really science." Just like someone who converts from Christianity "wasn't really Christian." There's a pattern forming here, no?


Well, anything in science can be demonstrated on the same basis the OP presented. Now do the same with your God, or admit that there's no practicality in presenting your mere faith or belief as fact.

 

[No Time]

Religious people are not given a 'free pass' in the UK, we treat all religious people exactly the same, they're delusional,
and we tell them, religious people here know this so they usually keep their beliefs to themselves and unlike the states Christians here are unlikely to kill you or even threaten you if you disagree with them.
We don't have religious TV in fact it's rarely on TV except perhaps to question why someone would believe something for no reason.

We often pay lip service to religion by using churches for weddings and funerals because they are nice things to do and there's more often than not a party later.

We need only go to old churches to read about the fear they instilled to keep people believing to know that it's all just a load of BS.

Religions are nothing more than businesses out to control people and make money, even more so in the US.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

I've always suspected that atheists deliberately join religious forums just to complain about religion.

I can't imagine a theist joining an atheist forum and writing "I'm so sick of these heathens poisoning our children's minds!" and not getting banned.

 

[Jazer]

So when discussing the Big Bang you cannot say that "perhaps God created it."

The "Big Bang" Theory was a religious belief for about 3,500 years before Quantum Physics came along and picked up the theory and called it science. It looks to me like it took science a long time to catch up with what Moses talked about 3500 years ago.

It is always a problem when you listen to what people say they said. If at all possible people should go as direct as they can to the original teacher. Because if I have to choose between what your saying and what Moses said, I am going to go with Moses. Could be 100 years from now no one will have ever heard of you. But the teachings of Moses will still be going strong for another 1000 years at least. Because NOTHING will pass from his teaching until all is accomplished.

"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Matt 5:17-18 (NKJV)

 

[selfinflikted]

Religions are nothing more than businesses out to control people and make money, even more so in the US.

 

[selfinflikted]

I can't imagine a theist joining an atheist forum and writing "I'm so sick of these heathens poisoning our children's minds!" and not getting banned.

It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

 

[Astridhere]

For far too long religionists have been given a pass. I don't know if it's out of respect or fear or what but... why in the world do most people just give up when a religionist says something about their god? The gods in this world have not been shown to exist, they have not left evidence behind to give us any proof of their being... there is no reason to suggest that we take them seriously at all. Yet, time after time a religonist will inject god into an argument and it is tacitly acknowledged as a being that exists and has properties that we all agree upon.

I do not agree. Nobody can state one true fact about God or any god. Not one. So when discussing the Big Bang you cannot say that "perhaps God created it." You cannot just say that "God is self-existing" when asked where God came from. There is no proof or evidence other than you THINK so. I wouldn't accept this kind of logic from a six-year old.

If, for example, you want to claim that life cannot come from non-life thus a deity is required then you need to show:

1. which deity did the deed
2. how the deity came to be
3. if you claim the deity is eternal then you need to show evidence of same
4. and then you need to show HOW the deity did the deed

All these things are provided with science. If you want to play in the ballpark it's time you were held to the same standard.

..and what standard would that be, given the best you can offer is 100 years of inconsistencies, debated research and changes in thinking.

 

[Jazer]

Religions are nothing more than businesses out to control people and make money, even more so in the US.

So you think lemmings are for real.

 

[Freodin]

Religions thrives on the business model that everything that you got was exactly what you expected, but you only know that afterwards.

It is unbeatable, as long as you have enough customers buying that.

 

[Astridhere]

I've always suspected that atheists deliberately join religious forums just to complain about religion.

I can't imagine a theist joining an atheist forum and writing "I'm so sick of these heathens poisoning our children's minds!" and not getting banned.

Atheists seeking out religious forums says alot. I agree. However it is one of the hush hush subjects around here.

 

[Freodin]

Atheists seeking out religious forums says alot. I agree. However it is one of the hush hush subjects around here.

Well... if you are looking for a laugh, you have to go to the comedy shows.

 

[Astridhere]

Religions thrives on the business model that everything that you got was exactly what you expected, but you only know that afterwards.

It is unbeatable, as long as you have enough customers buying that.

Oh do you mean like researchers exaggerating and misrepresenting research trying to make news headlines to get more research grants and stay employed? Flavour of the month has much value it seems and represents the basis of a good and ongoing business model also.

 

[AlexBP]

I'm tried of giving religionists a pass.

So what? Has it ever occurred to you that there probably isn't any religious person on the planet who cares whether you hand them a card or not? Give me a pass or not; it's not going to affect me either way.

 

[Freodin]

Oh do you mean like researchers exaggerating and misrepresenting research trying to make news headlines to get more research grants and stay employed? Flavour of the month has much value it seems and represents the basis of a good and ongoing business model also.

Yep, that was exactly what I meant...

...no, wait... this was nothing like what I said.

Oh, now I get the joke! It is exactly what I said... a religionist taking a pearl of wisdom from an unbeliever and stating "This is what we always have said... since you discovered it."

Good stuff... you got another one like that?