What’s the worst that can happen?

[oi_antz]

I'm one of those guys who has the Icon of a profile with a black brain; I'm an Atheist. Your response was worded as if I actually believed what your Bible says.

K

Understood, NP.

 

[chilehed]

quite! I asked why doesn’t your God address the entire world in an audible voice at the same time in a language that each of us can understand to clear up all the misunderstandings we have of him

As I said, that wouldn't be any more miraculous than what he's already done.

Now I don’t know if you would consider this a miracle, but if you do it would be a SPECIFIC miracle...

No more specific than the many other specific miracles that people rationalize away.

But did he perform the specific miracle (if that’s what you want to call it) that I mentioned? No! so you didn’t address my question.

There was a man auditioning for the circus. He stood in the middle of the ring and began flapping his arms like mad. He took off into the air, circled the tent three times, did a figure 8 between the trapeze ropes, barrel-rolled through the flaming hoops, and set himself gently back down where he started.

In response to which the ringmaster sneered and said "So that's it? - bird imitations?"

Because you misquoted my original question, you started in the wrong direction and the remainder of your response continues in the wrong direction thus you are answering questions I didn’t even ask; not the question I did ask.

I'm not sure what misconceptions you're talking about. You mean the one about how he wants us to treat each other with dignity? Most people know that one already, and the ones like it.

Let’s try again; What’s the worse that can happen if your God addressed the entire world at once in an audible voice, in a language we can each understand to clear up all the misunderstandings we have of him.

I already answered that one: many people would instantly hate him forever and decide to spend eternity separated from him.

This one you’ve got half right. Yes you will know he exists, but I never said you can’t ignore him. Satan knows God exists right? But does he bind himself to God in a mutual exchange of love? No! he disobeys, and ignores God. Now logic tells you that if Satan is able to know God exist and can still reject, or ignore him, so should you; right?

At that level of awareness, it's not possible to ignore God. You can adhere to him or reject him, but not ignore him. That goes for Satan as well.

thanks for the honest assessment. If I understand you correctly, you seem to be admitting that you are the type of person who when proven wrong; rather than admit to your mistake and change your position, you become irritated and “dig in” so you don’t have to change your mind.

I am not that way;...

I wasn't talking about being shown the correctness of some abstract intellectual proposition, I was talking about being shown some distasteful aspect of my own personality by someone significant to me.

You think you don't behave in the manner I described? *headshake*

Perhaps you've convinced yourself of that, but no one else will buy it. Just ask around your family and close friends.

In any case, the assumption that Christian theology is correct dictates that we all suffer from some level of self-deception, which prevents you from validly making that claim.

 

[linssue55]

What’s the worst that can happen if God were to address the entire world at once, in an audible voice; in a language that each of us can understand to clear up all the misunderstandings we humans have of him?
Why doesn’t he do it?

Ken

It is NOT a part of His plan that He created in eternity past.

That is why He gave us His written Word. I don't need to "hear" Him, for my TRUST is complete through His word.

The Lord is NOT a Genie for our never ending whims.

 

[Ken-1122]

I asked:” why doesn’t your God address the entire world in an audible voice at the same time in a language that each of us can understand to clear up all the misunderstandings we have of him”

Chilihed (quote) “As I said, that wouldn't be any more miraculous than what he's already done.”

(reply)” Who cares about miracles? The reason is to clear up the misunderstandings everyone has of him. Did you even read what I wrote?

(I said)Because you misquoted my original question, you started in the wrong direction and the remainder of your response continues in the wrong direction thus you are answering questions I didn’t even ask; not the question I did ask.

Chilhed (quote)” I'm not sure what misconceptions you're talking about. You mean the one about how he wants us to treat each other with dignity? Most people know that one already, and the ones like it.


(reply) No not the easy stuff; the things people are fighting over, killing over; like is his name Yahweh, Allah, Ahura Mazda, Braham,etc.
is Jesus his son or his prophet? Or maybe neither; maybe Dionysus is his son or maybe Zoroaster is his prophet. Which religion is right; which ancient holy text has got it right? Do any of them have it right; etc. don’t kill don’t steal, treat people right; that is the easy stuff nobody needs to hear that again; what they need is to clear up the misunderstandings they have of God.


I said: “Let’s try again; What’s the worse that can happen if your God addressed the entire world at once in an audible voice, in a language we can each understand to clear up all the misunderstandings we have of him.

Chilihed (quote) “I already answered that one: many people would instantly hate him forever and decide to spend eternity separated from him.

(reply) Why? And please don’t say something obtuse like; people who aren’t ready to make a decision on whether or not God exists would be forced to at that time” because if God’s existence was proven, there would be no issue of whether or not he exist. There would be no such term as atheist; just as there is no term to describe people who don’t believe stars, or planets exist. The issue would be whether or not to serve God or not; and as long as freewill is in place, people can still make that choice; so please explain why they would hate God for clearing up a bunch of misunderstandings.

(quote) At that level of awareness, it's not possible to ignore God. You can adhere to him or reject him, but not ignore him. That goes for Satan as well.

(reply) Ignore is defined as “to refuse to take notice of” so as long as freewill has not been compromised, the haters would still have the ability to ignore the voice coming from the sky.

(quote) “You think you don't behave in the manner I described? *headshake*
Perhaps you've convinced yourself of that, but no one else will buy it. Just ask around your family and close friends

(reply) like I said; if I did I would still be Christian. You should never assume everybody is like you. Don’t get me wrong, I am far from perfect; I have plenty of faults, but an ability to admit I don’t know everything, and could possibly be wrong is not one them.

(quote)In any case, the assumption that Christian theology is correct dictates that we all suffer from some level of self-deception, which prevents you from validly making that claim.[/font][FONT='Arial','sans-serif']”

(reply) I may agree that many who assume Christian theology is correct may suffer from a level of self-deception; but remember; I’m the atheist! So I’m gonna let you speak for yourself (and maybe others who think like you) on that one kool?

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

It is NOT a part of His plan that He created in eternity past.

That is why He gave us His written Word. I don't need to "hear" Him, for my TRUST is complete through His word.

The Lord is NOT a Genie for our never ending whims.

How do you make that "leap???" How do you equate God clearing up the misunderstandings everyone has of him, to him being a "Genie for our never ending whims"!

You've totally lost me on that one; please explain.

Ken

 

[linssue55]

How do you make that "leap???" How do you equate God clearing up the misunderstandings everyone has of him, to him being a "Genie for our never ending whims"!

You've totally lost me on that one; please explain.

Ken

This is the way I think about it.........

I know He won't talk "now" to us, so when people say things like that, it's like they want Him to do a Genie thing, like speak now. Why would anyone even want to speculate/wish/dream on this?! It is just so beyond the way I think as a rational christian.

"The WORD of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the didviding usunder, the soul and the spirit, the joints of the marrow, and is the thought and critic and intense of the heart. All scripture is God breathed, and is profitable, for doctrine, for re-proof, for correction for instructions in righteouness, that the man of God might be mature, thouroughly furnished unto all good works".

I will see the Lord one day and to me it would make no difference to me if He was to speak now (which will not happen in this church age). So I guess I just don't give things like this even a first thought. His voice would not make me love Him more, for sometimes now I think I will burst from how much I love and appreciate Him. It is all due to His word.

Can't explain it any better.

 

[docpotter]

” Who cares about miracles? The reason is to clear up the misunderstandings everyone has of him. Did you even read what I wrote?

In all fairness Ken, not everyone has misunderstandings about God . He did talk to the people of Israel in a loud , clear voice , and showed them many miraculous things. Then He sent Jesus here , who did quite a few things for our benefit .

 

[seashale76]

This is a playing games thread.

The worst that could happen is that you will reject God anyway (even though He has revealed Himself to us already). Then you'll experience God's Love for eternity and suffer for it- you'll wail, you'll gnash your teeth, and you'll curse Him- and you'll be experiencing the Light of the World as a River of Fire. It won't be God that changed or Who decides to punish you (it is willingly and knowingly chosen), those who are able to participate in the energies of God (attain salvation) will experience God differently because of what they chose to do in this life. It is a scourge of love, but joy for the blessed.

Think of the fiery furnace and the three righteous youths. The fire didn't change for them- but they called on the Lord and trusted in Him and were unscathed. However, anyone else who even got close to the fire died of the same heat.

 

[Ken-1122]

This is the way I think about it.........

I know He won't talk "now" to us, so when people say things like that, it's like they want Him to do a Genie thing, like speak now. Why would anyone even want to speculate/wish/dream on this?! It is just so beyond the way I think as a rational christian.

"The WORD of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the didviding usunder, the soul and the spirit, the joints of the marrow, and is the thought and critic and intense of the heart. All scripture is God breathed, and is profitable, for doctrine, for re-proof, for correction for instructions in righteouness, that the man of God might be mature, thouroughly furnished unto all good works".

I will see the Lord one day and to me it would make no difference to me if He was to speak now (which will not happen in this church age). So I guess I just don't give things like this even a first thought. His voice would not make me love Him more, for sometimes now I think I will burst from how much I love and appreciate Him. It is all due to His word.

Can't explain it any better.

This question is not just about you, it is about everyone else as well and unfortunately there are people out there who are hurting and killing each over this. There are people hating other people because they think they are worshiping a wrong God or because they think this race of people killed their Jesus etc. Don't cha think it would be a good idea for God to clear things up for some of those folks?

K

 

[Ken-1122]

” Who cares about miracles? The reason is to clear up the misunderstandings everyone has of him. Did you even read what I wrote?

In all fairness Ken, not everyone has misunderstandings about God . He did talk to the people of Israel in a loud , clear voice , and showed them many miraculous things. Then He sent Jesus here , who did quite a few things for our benefit .

Okay I didn't mean to give the impression that every single person on Earth has got it wrong, but you gotta admit; the vast majority of people do.

 

[Ken-1122]

This is a playing games thread.

The worst that could happen is that you will reject God anyway (even though He has revealed Himself to us already). Then you'll experience God's Love for eternity and suffer for it- .

Is that it? That some people will reject God anyway? Well we got that now! except we have the majority rejecting (or not worshiping) this God! Seems to me it can't hurt but can certainly help; so why doesn't he do it?

Ken

 

[oi_antz]

Is that it? That some people will reject God anyway? Well we got that now! except we have the majority rejecting (or not worshiping) this God! Seems to me it can't hurt but can certainly help; so why doesn't he do it?

Ken

Matthew 20

The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard

1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 and said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went. 5 Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle,[a] and said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day?’ 7 They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.’
8 “So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.’ 9 And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius. 10 But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius. 11 And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner, 12 saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’ 13 But he answered one of them and said, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?’ 16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.”

We are so rich to live in an era when believing is easy. We have the blessing of retrospect, religious freedom and religious diversity. There is very little stopping a person from asking for faith. It is predestination at work and the natural process of Jesus sorting wheat from chaff. If you don't feel chosen Ken then it would be wise to ask Jesus why not.

 

[ex-pat]

What’s the worst that can happen if God were to address the entire world at once, in an audible voice; in a language that each of us can understand to clear up all the misunderstandings we humans have of him?
Why doesn’t he do it?

Ken

People would think it was the Vogons..."Apathetic b***** planet, really. I've got no use for it"

 

[Ken-1122]

We are so rich to live in an era when believing is easy. We have the blessing of retrospect, religious freedom and religious diversity. There is very little stopping a person from asking for faith. It is predestination at work and the natural process of Jesus sorting wheat from chaff. If you don't feel chosen Ken then it would be wise to ask Jesus why not.

Sounds like you're getting a little off the subject but why would I ask Jesus as opposed to Osirus, Allah, or Vinishu?

K

 

[Ken-1122]

People would think it was the Vogons..."Apathetic b***** planet, really. I've got no use for it"

I am sure some people will think a lot of things; but don't cha think it would help a lot of people? Don't you think a lot of people would convert?

K

 

[oi_antz]

Sounds like you're getting a little off the subject but why would I ask Jesus as opposed to Osirus, Allah, or Vinishu?

K

That's what you would need to ask Him, have you never considered asking Jesus, Osirus, Allah and Vishnu?

 

[Ken-1122]

That's what you would need to ask Him, have you never considered asking Jesus, Osirus, Allah and Vishnu?

As I mentioned on previous posts, I spent 6 years asking Jesus; when that didn't work I gave up and realized he didn't exist. I never got around to asking Osirus, Allah, or the others

K

 

[chilehed]

…Who cares about miracles?

You’re asking for one, so it seems that you do.

…The reason is to clear up the misunderstandings everyone has of him. Did you even read what I wrote?

I’m thinking that the most significant misunderstanding is about whether or not he exists at all, so that’s what I addressed.

… Don’t get me wrong, I am far from perfect; I have plenty of faults, but an ability to admit I don’t know everything, and could possibly be wrong is not one them.

Freudian slip?

I suppose that’s why you said I was being obtuse when I gave an answer that makes no sense to you. You're behaving in exactly the manner I described.

…I may agree that many who assume Christian theology is correct may suffer from a level of self-deception; but remember; I’m the atheist! So I’m gonna let you speak for yourself (and maybe others who think like you) on that one kool?

You seem intent on ignoring the premise of your question when it suits you.

You’ve proven my point quite well. I’m done here.

 

[Nanopants]

What’s the worst that can happen if God were to address the entire world at once, in an audible voice; in a language that each of us can understand to clear up all the misunderstandings we humans have of him?
Why doesn’t he do it?

Ken

If the old adage: "actions speak louder than words" is true, then he already did.

He willingly died on a cross to show us the way.

 

[Ken-1122]

Chilehed
(quote) “You’re asking for one, so it seems that you do.”

(reply) I’m not asking for a miracle, I’m simply asking a hypothetical of what would happen if God addressed the entire world.

(quote) “I’m thinking that the most significant misunderstanding is about whether or not he exists at all, so that’s what I addressed.”

(reply) I disagree! The vast majority of people already believe he exists; I think the most significant misunderstanding is which God exists. That’s why I spelled out what I meant by “misunderstandings”; which God, who is his son, does he have a son, what does he expect of us, etc.

Nanopants (quote) “If the old adage: "actions speak louder than words" is true, then he already did. He willingly died on a cross to show us the way.”

(reply) Actually that old adage isn’t always true; I believe in this case his words would be much louder and effective than his actions.


Ken