Should infants/toddlers receive Communion?

[CaliforniaJosiah]

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Here's the verse:


"A person must EXAMINE himself and THEN eat the bread and drink from the cup"


Here's the question:


How, exactly, does a baby do that?


If you would, answer it - not with question(s), not with excuses, not with disagreements with Paul, but answer it - if you so choose, if you can.







.

 

[freezerman2000]

Is there a test? What is passing grade that allows one to be baptized?

Is salvation really a function of our intellect?

There is no set test..It is never written...understanding something sometimes does not require a lot of intellect.
Our salvation is part of our understanding of God's sacrifice (Christ's death on the cross) ...without understanding that, how can there be salvation in the first place?
Baptism in itself does not ensure our salvation...it is an outward sign of our acceptance of Christ into our lives.

I should have said in my original post that when I was young one needed to be Confirmed (I was in the seventh grade, which still is the tradition youngest grade)by the Bishop in order to receive Communion.
It is now up to the parents to decide along with the clergy if the child is mature enough spiritually to receive Communion. I have not known any child that has not stated at least the third grade to receive communion, although, I would think that exceptions have been made.
I do not agree with that policy, but it has not estranged my fellowship in the Anglican Communion.
Infants and toddlers never do. They are in the nursery at that time..Before they are taken to the nursery however, the parents have the opportunity to have them blessed.

 

[Dorothea]

If post 267 is left as is, it is obvious you did not respond to my question about "obedience" that you stressed. You were silent about that, addressing instead only the second part, about HOW a baby does that - not my answering it but by evading it or perhaps disagreeing with Scripture.



You said we should be "obedient." Okay, how should we be "obedient" to what Paul states, namely: "A person must EXAMINE himself and THEN eat the bread and drink from the cup?"


I'll ask again, how, exactly, does a baby do this?







.

Maybe I should just c&p my previous answer here. It seems to work a lot for you. Ok, sorry, for the jab.

the answer is who what I said. Scripture doesn't say anything about an infant discerning by examining herself/himself if he's prepared for the Eucharist. Paul is speaking to adults of the church on how to prepare.

Yes, Obedience is the key. And children are obedient to their parents (honor thy mother and father), and it is through the parents that a baby is baptized and chrismated and given the Body and Blood of Christ.

And now I have a question: What makes you or anyone here more deserving of His Body and Blood than a child?

 

[Thekla]

.



Here's the verse:


"A person must EXAMINE himself and THEN eat the bread and drink from the cup"


Here's the question:


How, exactly, does a baby do that?


If you would, answer it - not with question(s), not with excuses, not with disagreements with Paul, but answer it - if you so choose, if you can.

I don't think a neurologist could tell you exactly how anyone does that - science can only give a rough evaluation at this point.

So I can't tell you how exactly an infant "can do that".
I can also tell you that God does not ask of us more than we can handle; do you mean to state unequivocally that God demands this of everyone ? " ... or to whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." (Luke 12:48b)

I will not pretend to know how much is given to each person.


I have chosen to answer you several times, nor have I disagreed with Paul.

Why do you choose to ignore what I have stated ?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Scripture doesn't say anything about an infant discerning by examining herself/himself if he's prepared for the Eucharist. Paul is speaking to adults of the church on how to prepare.

What support do you have that the word "ἄνθρωπος" exclusively means "adult" and excludes children and infants?


Or are you insisting that Paul, by inspiration, simply chose the wrong word?

Yes, Obedience is the key. And children are obedient to their parents (honor thy mother and father), and it is through the parents that a baby is baptized and chrismated and given the Body and Blood of Christ.

So, how are you suggesting that babies be "obedient" to what Paul commands: "A person must EXAMINE himself and THEN eat the bread and drink from the cup?"


Are you suggesting that PARENTS are to examine the baby, in specific conflict with what Scripture instructs, namely,"A person must examine HIMSELF and then eat the bread and drink from the cup?"






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[Thekla]

Certainly, if an adult cannot understand that he or she is engaging in the misrepresentation of other poster's statements, he or she cannot begin to discuss how babies can "examine themselves".

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Certainly, if an adult cannot understand that he or she is engaging in the misrepresentation of other poster's statements, he or she cannot begin to discuss how babies can "examine themselves".

So, everyone is exempt from what Scripture mandates?


"A person must EXAMINE himself and THEN eat the bread and drink from the cup,"







.

 

[Thekla]

So, everyone is exempt from what Scripture mandates?


"A person must EXAMINE himself and THEN eat the bread and drink from the cup,"

Can you quote the post where I state such a thing ?

Certainly, if an adult cannot understand that he or she is engaging in the misrepresentation of other poster's statements, he or she cannot begin to discuss how babies can "examine themselves"

 

[Sieben]

heb 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

 

[Thekla]

heb 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Thekla,

So, are you now saying that babies must do as Paul by inspiration clearly instructs of them, this they can do and you are certain they all do it, you simply don't know how they all do it?


If not, let's try this again:


Here's the verse:


"A person must EXAMINE himself and THEN eat the bread and drink from the cup"


Here's the question:


How, exactly, does a baby do that?


If you would, answer it - not with question(s), not with excuses, not with disagreements with Paul, but answer it - if you so choose, if you can.





.

 

[Thekla]

Thekla,

So, are you saying that babies must do as Paul by inspiration clearly instructs, you simply don't know how they do it, but you are certain that they all do?


If not, let's try this again:


Here's the verse:


"A person must EXAMINE himself and THEN eat the bread and drink from the cup"


Here's the question:


How, exactly, does a baby do that?


If you would, answer it - not with question(s), not with excuses, not with disagreements with Paul, but answer it - if you so choose, if you can.





.

As you continue to engage in misrepresentation and frank false statements about what I have stated, I see no purpose in responding to you any further.

Perhaps you believe that one should only engage in self-examination before Communion, but at no other time.

 

[Dorothea]

What support do you have that the word "ἄνθρωπος" exclusively means "adult" and excludes children and infants?


Or are you insisting that Paul, by inspiration, simply chose the wrong word?

Certainly there were children in the churches when he visited. I don't doubt or deny that. After all, I believe they communed with the Body because they were members 100% just like others, so definitely, there's no problem there. The difference is that to become a member of the church is through the parents as you can see in the Scriptural example of the person who proclaimed belief, and his whole household was baptized. Not even other adults or children or whatever had to individually profess their belief. Just that one person. Therefore, it is natural to understand that an adult speaks for the child in bringing them to the Church and having them become a member along with them and all the rest of their family. Why exclude the children? I find that extremely cruel and not Christ-like, especially since He had told them to let the children come to Him. There are no barriers for the babes.

So, how are you suggesting that babies be "obedient" to what Paul commands: "A person must EXAMINE himself and THEN eat the bread and drink from the cup?"


Are you suggesting that PARENTS are to examine the baby, in specific conflict with what Scripture instructs, namely,"A person must examine HIMSELF and then eat the bread and drink from the cup?"
.

What I'm telling you is the godparent and parent are responsible for the child's upbringing in the faith, and if a child is baptized into the faith, they are a full member of the Body of Christ, not a partial member. They put on Christ and receive the Spirit, so there is no reason why they would not receive His Body and Blood. It makes no sense. Again, what examination would a baby need to do?

And my other question you didn't answer: Why do you think you and others here are more deserving of partaking of the Eucharist than a child?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Perhaps you believe that one should only engage in self-examination before Communion, but at no other time.

Let's try this again:



Here's the verse:


"A person must EXAMINE himself and THEN eat the bread and drink from the cup"


Here's the question:


How, exactly, does a baby do that?










.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

What support do you have that the word "ἄνθρωπος" exclusively means "adult" and excludes children and infants?


Or are you insisting that Paul, by inspiration, simply chose the wrong word?



.

Certainly there were children in the churches when he visited. I don't doubt or deny that. After all, I believe they communed with the Body because they were members 100% just like others, so definitely, there's no problem there. The difference is that to become a member of the church is through the parents as you can see in the Scriptural example of the person who proclaimed belief, and his whole household was baptized. Not even other adults or children or whatever had to individually profess their belief. Just that one person. Therefore, it is natural to understand that an adult speaks for the child in bringing them to the Church and having them become a member along with them and all the rest of their family. Why exclude the children? I find that extremely cruel and not Christ-like, especially since He had told them to let the children come to Him. There are no barriers for the babes.

Sorry! I'm at a complete loss to understand how any of that relates to what you quoted from me or what I asked.


Could you give all the references in Scripture to babies participating in the Eucharist?


Are you saying that the word "ἄνθρωπος" exclusively means "adult church member" and cannot mean children or infants?

"A person must examine HIMSELF and then eat the bread and drink from the cup"


.

What I'm telling you is the godparent and parent are responsible for the child's upbringing in the faith, and if a child is baptized into the faith, they are a full member of the Body of Christ, not a partial member. They put on Christ and receive the Spirit, so there is no reason why they would not receive His Body and Blood. It makes no sense.

So, do you believe Paul (by inspiration) misspoke? He should not have said "himself?"


Did you not earlier insist that no one is to "judge" another? (Perhaps I'm confusing you with another Orthodox poster here, if so, sorry). IF so, then isn't the godparent and parent doing what is insisted cannot and must not be done?








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[Thekla]

Originally Posted by Thekla

Perhaps you believe that one should only engage in self-examination before Communion, but at no other time.
​

Is that your position?




Let's try this again:



Here's the verse:


"A person must EXAMINE himself and THEN eat the bread and drink from the cup"


Here's the question:


How, exactly, does a baby do that?


If you would, answer it - not with question(s), not with excuses, not with disagreements with Paul, but answer it - if you so choose, if you can.







.

.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7591342-30/#post58568106

 

[Dorothea]

Sorry! I'm at a complete loss to understand how any of that relates to what you quoted from me or what I asked.

Could you give all the references in Scripture to babies participating in the Eucharist?

Are you saying that the word "ἄνθρωπος" exclusively means "adult church member" and cannot mean children or infants?

So, do you believe Paul (by inspiration) misspoke? He should not have said "himself?"


Did you not earlier insist that no one is to "judge" another? (Perhaps I'm confusing you with another Orthodox poster here, if so, sorry). IF so, then isn't the godparent and parent doing what is insisted cannot and must not be done?


.

Children were always members of the Church. Go back and read all of the posts about children eating the Passover meal. Children then will eat the Lamb. Children were never excluded from anything. They were always part of God's people - through the parting of the Red Sea (a type of baptism), to whole households being baptized, to eating the Passover meal with all. Children have never been excluded. As I said, Christ Himself said let the children come to Him. Why disobey Him and hamper children's putting on Christ? I find that that not sound like what the Christians would do.

As far as Paul saying examine yourself, I did not say he didn't say that. He does, and we should, and we are called to do so before receiving the Eucharist.

And to your last question, apparently parents answered for their children in the Scriptures.

And here are my questions again:

what examination would a baby need to do?

And my other question you didn't answer: Why do you think you and others here are more deserving of partaking of the Eucharist than a child?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Sorry! I'm at a complete loss to understand how any of that relates to what you quoted from me or what I asked.


Could you give all the references in Scripture to babies participating in the Eucharist?


Are you saying that the word "ἄνθρωπος" exclusively means "adult church member" and cannot mean children or infants?




.

Children were always members of the Church. Go back and read all of the posts about children eating the Passover meal. Children then will eat the Lamb. Children were never excluded from anything. They were always part of God's people - through the parting of the Red Sea (a type of baptism), to whole households being baptized, to eating the Passover meal with all. Children have never been excluded. As I said, Christ Himself said let the children come to Him. Why disobey Him and hamper children's putting on Christ? I find that that not sound like what the Christians would do.

This discussion is not about church membership or Baptism or the parting of the Red Sea or the Passover Meal. It's about participation in the Eucharist.


Here's what Scripture says about that: "A person must EXAMINE himself and THEN eat the bread and drink from the cup"


How do babies do that?

What I'm telling you is the godparent and parent are responsible for the child's upbringing in the faith, and if a child is baptized into the faith, they are a full member of the Body of Christ, not a partial member. They put on Christ and receive the Spirit, so there is no reason why they would not receive His Body and Blood. It makes no sense.

So, do you believe Paul (by inspiration) misspoke? He should not have said "himself?"


Did you not earlier insist that no one is to "judge" another? (Perhaps I'm confusing you with another Orthodox poster here, if so, sorry). IF so, then isn't the godparent and parent doing what is insisted cannot and must not be done?



.

As far as Paul saying examine yourself, I did not say he didn't say that. He does, and we should, and we are called to do so before receiving the Eucharist.

Okay, so how does a baby do that?





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[bbbbbbb]

aren't you pointing out the unbelief of all infants merely by virtue of their developmental state? Incapable of doing what? Understanding how and why adults sin and repent? Why in the world would they need to understand that. They have a capability and that is all they need.

No. Examining themselves as all people are commanded to do prior to partaking. No. They don't need to understand that. You have no evidence of the slightest capability on the part of an infant to examine itself.

 

[cubinity]

Is that your position?
Let's try this again:
Here's the verse:
"A person must EXAMINE himself and THEN eat the bread and drink from the cup"


Here's the question:

How, exactly, does a baby do that?

If you would, answer it - not with question(s), not with excuses, not with disagreements with Paul, but answer it - if you so choose, if you can.

The command is to examine whether one is hungry or not. I've only met one baby in my life that couldn't examine her own hunger and it was a diagnoses disability that caused that. As for the how, I believe that's intuitive.