Jesus vs Paul, law abolishment. A simple answer, from a frog.

[from scratch]

It doesn't matter who you were quoting, I agree with the statement.

He wasn't quoting someone. Isn't that kind of quote. The word was in qupotes giving it a meaning outside the ordinary contextual way it is used.

 

[from scratch]

But "rest" is mentioned in the NT/NC of the Bible

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Matthew 11:29 "Take! My yoke upon ye, and be learning from Me.
That meek am I and humble to the heart, and ye shall be finding rest to the souls of ye"

Hebrews 4:3 For we are entering into the rest, the ones-believing. According to as He declared, 'As I have sware in My wrath, if they shall be entering into the rest of Me' and-those the works from down-casting of world being become. [Psalm 95:11/Matt 11:29/Reve 14:11]

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of the tormenting of them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.
And not they are having rest day and night
[Matt 11:29/Hebrew 4:3]

Isn't it odd that Jesus would offer them something thay already had?I think so. Evidently they weren't getting this rest with the sabbath.

Your Revelation verse is talking about the torment of their souls.

 

[Frogster]

I often wonder why people get so mad at the abolishment?

 

[from scratch]

I often wonder why people get so mad at the abolishment?

Maybe it leaves them without a personal compass they can grab. I think it is a big factor why more women are involved in religion.

 

[New_Wineskin]

I often wonder why people get so mad at the abolishment?

It is all about control and a false sense of authority . They need others to agree that it is for everyone so that they can throw a book in someone's face and say " the 'bible' says this on what you are doing ( or aren't doing ) !"

 

[Frogster]

It is all about control and a false sense of authority . They need others to agree that it is for everyone so that they can throw a book in someone's face and say " the 'bible' says this on what you are doing ( or aren't doing ) !"

multi-generational-co-dependant-pharisees-carnaly minded-----

 

[Frogster]

Maybe it leaves them without a personal compass they can grab. I think it is a big factor why more women are involved in religion.

yup....the external structure grasping, shows they are not attained on the inside.

 

[David64]

I often wonder why people get so mad at the abolishment?

I haven't seen anyone mad about what you think happened.
All the anger I've seen comes from the license side.

 

[New_Wineskin]

I often wonder why people get so mad at the abolishment?

To be more specific to what I wrote earlier ... As Paul wrote , they are upset concerning our freedom . While they work , we rest and will obtain what they work so hard for . It reminds me of the person who hired people throughout the day . Those that worked longest were upset because they received the same pay as those who worked the least . Even though they obtain what they worked for and agreed to , they couldn't handle the generousity of their employer .

 

[Frogster]

To be more specific to what I wrote earlier ... As Paul wrote , they are upset concerning our freedom . While they work , we rest and will obtain what they work so hard for . It reminds me of the person who hired people throughout the day . Those that worked longest were upset because they received the same pay as those who worked the least . Even though they obtain what they worked for and agreed to , they couldn't handle the generousity of their employer .

Perfect.

 

[Frogster]

I haven't seen anyone mad about what you think happened.
All the anger I've seen comes from the license side.

So long as you don't debate the scripture, with the frogster, you're just taking up cyberspace.

 

[Jerushabelle]

So long as you don't debate the scripture, with the frogster, you're just taking up cyberspace.

But see, I don't see Scripture represented in words like "Jesus vs. Paul"....not in words or ideas or actuality.

 

[Frogster]

But see, I don't see Scripture represented in words like "Jesus vs. Paul"....not in words or ideas or actuality.

Hi, I meant it as a quote, it is an expression often said, because of the abolishment verses, that seem to be contrary in the op.

"Jesus vs Paul"

 

[Frogster]

I haven't seen anyone mad about what you think happened.
All the anger I've seen comes from the license side.

I have a drivers license.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

a good example of Jesus vs Paul is where Jesus teaches on the sermon on the mount to love your enemies and Paul says Alexander the coppersmith did great evil to him and "the lord repay him according to his works" which indicates to me . along with other such incidences that there is a canon within the canon to resolve such rabbinical conflicts within the text .

 

[Yab Yum]

To me saying the law is abolished is kind of like saying the child "abolishes" his mother when he is born. Doesn't the cross reveal the essential nature of the law, which is forgiveness? The child is not the mother, he is different. But at the same time he honors her by revealing her final purpose.

1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.

Mat 6:14 "For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Mat 6:15 "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

To me saying the law is abolished is kind of like saying the child "abolishes" his mother when he is born. Doesn't the cross reveal the essential nature of the law, which is forgiveness? The child is not the mother, he is different. But at the same time he honors her by revealing her final purpose.

1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.

Mat 6:14 "For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Mat 6:15 "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

The essential nature of the law is not forgiveness, the essential nature of the law is . you get cursed for screwing up, and blessed for doing good . but the essential nature of God is he blesses both the righteous and the unrighteous. We now learn from God .

 

[Yab Yum]

... you get cursed for screwing up, and blessed for doing good ...

That isn't the essential nature of the law, that is the outward appearance of the law. The essential nature of the law is the same as the essential nature of God, which was revealed in one place and time only - on the cross. On the cross all the curses and blessings evaporate the same moment they arise because only there they are revealed to be what they truly are - of the nature of forgiveness.

Forgiveness is a no-morality which dissolves all moralities when they arise because the true essential nature of all moralities - the thing toward which they all point, the thing which is their final end, the thing towards which they arise and into which they find their fulfillment, the thing which they signify, the thing which they reveal, is forgiveness.

 

[Frogster]

That isn't the essential nature of the law, that is the outward appearance of the law. The essential nature of the law is the same as the essential nature of God, which was revealed in one place and time only - on the cross. On the cross all the curses and blessings evaporate the same moment they arise because only there they are revealed to be what they truly are - of the nature of forgiveness.

Forgiveness is a no-morality which dissolves all moralities when they arise because the true essential nature of all moralities - the thing toward which they all point, the thing which is their final end, the thing towards which they arise and into which they find their fulfillment, the thing which they signify, the thing which they reveal, is forgiveness.

the cross is where the law was nailed, abolished, in his flesh...

The essential nature of the law, has a clear definition.


5;20The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

 

[Yab Yum]

Paul didn't die for my sins.

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Barnes on Eph 2:15:

The idea is, that the ceremonial law of the Jews, on which they so much prided themselves, was the cause of the hostility existing between them. That made them different people, and laid the foundation for the alienation which existed between them. They had different laws; different institutions; a different religion. The Jews looked upon themselves as the favorites of heaven, and as in possession of the knowledge of the only way of salvation; the Gentiles regarded their laws with contempt, and looked upon the unique institutions with scorn. When Christ came and abolished by his death their special ceremonial laws, of course the cause of this alienation ceased.

This does not refer to the “moral” law, which was not the cause of the alienation, and which was not abolished by the death of Christ, but to the laws commanding sacrifices, festivals, fasts, etc., which constituted the uniqueness of the Jewish system. These were the occasion of the enmity between the Jews and the Gentiles, and these were abolished by the great sacrifice which the Redeemer made; and of course when that was made, the purpose for which these laws were instituted was accomplished, and they ceased to be of value and to be binding.

Clarke on Col 2:14:

By the hand-writing of ordinances the apostle most evidently means the ceremonial law: this was against them, for they were bound to fulfill it; and it was contrary to them, as condemning them for their neglect and transgression of it. This law God himself has blotted out.

To say that Jesus is the "telos" of the law means he is the purpose of the law, the thing to which it points, its point, its final goal, its fruit.

Baker on Rom 10:4:

Does one wish to understand the goal, the meaning and substance, of the Old Testament law? Then study Christ. Is not the very purpose of the law the establishment of love? See Deu_6:5; Lev_19:18 (in that order); cf. Mat_22:37-39. Is not Christ the very embodiment of that love, both in his life and in his death? And is it not true that because of this love which caused him to suffer and die in his people's stead, there now is right standing with God for everyone who reposes his trust in the Savior? Is not this the very theme of Romans?

Nevertheless, I am agreeing with you and with Paul more than you think.

CCC 2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God's wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

CCC 2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. The saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.