Jesus vs Paul, law abolishment. A simple answer, from a frog.

[from scratch]

Why? You never have any proof for anything you say.
Go back and see what Frog/you said first and then go do a little research on eletricity.
Why do you want me to do all the research for you?
Is that how you got through school, getting someone else to do all your work for you, or did you even get through school?

What I do know about electricity is the circuit must be complete. If something is insulated electricity won't go through it. Insulation prevents the completing of a circuit.

On the proof thing, surely you have to be kidding. I present Scripture after Scripture which is always and without exception said to be twisted by you, ignored or tried to discredt in some way.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by David64 Why? You never have any proof for anything you say.
Go back and see what Frog/you said first and then go do a little research on eletricity.

"david64", lets talk scripture, I'm sure there are science forums that you can visit, to discuss other things.

Excellent suggestion froggy!

Physical & Life Sciences - Christian Forums
Physical & Life Sciences A forum for physics, biology, chemistry and other physical sciences.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7558609/
Ask a physicist anything. (6)

 

[from scratch]

Why? You never have any proof for anything you say.
Go back and see what Frog/you said first and then go do a little research on eletricity.
Why do you want me to do all the research for you?
Is that how you got through school, getting someone else to do all your work for you, or did you even get through school?

You're so nice.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by New_Wineskin Something to tell your grandkids ... over , and ober , and over again .

It does sound like it was exciting and depressing ( truck death ) at the same time .

Well since this thread has appeared to gone so far off topic, I might as well add to it
All I can say to "truck death" is just to keep on truckin'

Eddie Kendricks - Keep on Truckin - YouTube

 

[from scratch]

Well since this thread has appeared to gone so far off topic, I might as well add to it
All I can say to "truck death" is just to keep on truckin'

Eddie Kendricks - Keep on Truckin - YouTube

OK I'll make a harder effort to stay on topic and not visit. Rolling with the punches doesn't work either. It probably won't be liked much either.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Well since this thread has appeared to gone so far off topic, I might as well add to it
All I can say to "truck death" is just to keep on truckin'

Eddie Kendricks - Keep on Truckin - YouTube

Ahmen !

 

[brightmorningstar]

Jesus didnt write any of the NT, so one cant say Jesus vs Paul anymore than one might say Jesus vs Matthew.
There is no necessary contradiction, fulfilment of the law and prophets through the Spirit and Grace is abolishing the abolishing the lawof commandments expressed in ordinances. So its abolishing the expression in ordinances.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Jesus didnt write any of the NT, so one cant say Jesus vs Paul anymore than one might say Jesus vs Matthew.
There is no necessary contradiction, fulfilment of the law and prophets through the Spirit and Grace is abolishing the abolishing the lawof commandments expressed in ordinances. So its abolishing the expression in ordinances.

Let's take a step back to the basics. Before Christ, the only means of salvation was fulfilling the law. Keeping that in mind, that while there is only one Gospel, there were two "missions", one to the Jews, and one to the Gentiles. The message was the same to both groups, the Law can not save, only faith can. We see in the Epistle of St. James, that Faith without works is dead. Keeping the Law is something that we just can not do; but faith motivates us to strive to do that.

In the NT I can see no reason to assume that observant Jews, hearing the Gospel and coming to faith would just abandon the law; it is almost certainly that those faithful Jews would continue to observe the law, but not as a means of salvation, but now as a result of that salvation. The same goes for "observant Gentiles", the ones who would worship with the Jews in the court of the Gentiles in the Temple.

Those who assert that St. Paul did not teach the law, but taught disobedience to it are also wrong. Paul, himself, a zealous Jew and observer of the law, would have taught it to put the message of the Gospel into context. Without the law, there is no sin; without sin, there is not need for the Gospel. With the Gospel, faith motivates us to keep the law. Paul taught the same thing as the rest of the Apostles, but to a different group.

Some Churches still teach this; at least ours does! See: >Walther's Law and Gospel

For me, it's just that simple.

 

[Frogster]

Let's take a step back to the basics. Before Christ, the only means of salvation was fulfilling the law. Keeping that in mind, that while there is only one Gospel, there were two "missions", one to the Jews, and one to the Gentiles. The message was the same to both groups, the Law can not save, only faith can. We see in the Epistle of St. James, that Faith without works is dead. Keeping the Law is something that we just can not do; but faith motivates us to strive to do that.

In the NT I can see no reason to assume that observant Jews, hearing the Gospel and coming to faith would just abandon the law;

The only thing is, the Jewish Christians living in Antioch, Peter Barnabas, Paul, and the rest of the Jews were living as Gentiles, like Paul also said in 4;12, "he became like them".

it is almost certainly that those faithful Jews would continue to observe the law, but not as a means of salvation, but now as a result of that salvation. The same goes for "observant Gentiles", the ones who would worship with the Jews in the court of the Gentiles in the Temple.

Those who assert that St. Paul did not teach the law, but taught disobedience to it are also wrong. Paul, himself, a zealous Jew and observer of the law, would have taught it to put the message of the Gospel into context. Without the law, there is no sin; without sin, there is not need for the Gospel. With the Gospel, faith motivates us to keep the law. Paul taught the same thing as the rest of the Apostles, but to a different group.

Paul could not really be an observant Jew, while being with his Gentile converts, besides, Eph 2 proves there can't be unity, one new kainos man, with the law, so maybe during a stressful transitional time, the Jewish Christians did in jerusalem, but 70 AD shows it was wrong, and the writer of Hebrews rebukes them for their efforts to revery back to the old cov.

Some Churches still teach this; at least ours does! See: >Walther's Law and Gospel

For me, it's just that simple.

Lets also be careful, trying to follow law, binds the conscience, hence, apart from law, sin is dead, Rom 7:8.

God bless.

 

[Frogster]

Jesus didnt write any of the NT, so one cant say Jesus vs Paul anymore than one might say Jesus vs Matthew.
There is no necessary contradiction, fulfilment of the law and prophets through the Spirit and Grace is abolishing the abolishing the lawof commandments expressed in ordinances. So its abolishing the expression in ordinances.

Well, I believe the Spirit inspired the NT, so yes, he did not write it, but he did.

It was more that ceremonial law being spoken of in 2:15.

 

[from scratch]

Let's take a step back to the basics. Before Christ, the only means of salvation was fulfilling the law. Keeping that in mind, that while there is only one Gospel, there were two "missions", one to the Jews, and one to the Gentiles. The message was the same to both groups, the Law can not save, only faith can. We see in the Epistle of St. James, that Faith without works is dead. Keeping the Law is something that we just can not do; but faith motivates us to strive to do that.

In the NT I can see no reason to assume that observant Jews, hearing the Gospel and coming to faith would just abandon the law; it is almost certainly that those faithful Jews would continue to observe the law, but not as a means of salvation, but now as a result of that salvation. The same goes for "observant Gentiles", the ones who would worship with the Jews in the court of the Gentiles in the Temple.

Those who assert that St. Paul did not teach the law, but taught disobedience to it are also wrong. Paul, himself, a zealous Jew and observer of the law, would have taught it to put the message of the Gospel into context. Without the law, there is no sin; without sin, there is not need for the Gospel. With the Gospel, faith motivates us to keep the law. Paul taught the same thing as the rest of the Apostles, but to a different group.

Some Churches still teach this; at least ours does! See: >Walther's Law and Gospel

For me, it's just that simple.

Who is teaching disobedience to ahything? Sin is wrong. One can't violate a law not given to them. The law is and was only given to the COI. No one before and no one after.


No one could be saved under the law before or after the cross.

Sin was before the law - Rom 5:13 and Gal 3:19.

 

[Frogster]

Who is teaching disobedience to ahything? Sin is wrong. One can't violate a law not given to them. The law is and was only given to the COI. No one before and no one after.


No one could be saved under the law before or after the cross.

Sin was before the law - Rom 5:13 and Gal 3:19.

 

[visionary]

One can't violate a law not given to them.

Ignorance of the law does not give you a "get away with anything card."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Who is teaching disobedience to ahything? Sin is wrong. One can't violate a law not given to them. The law is and was only given to the COI. No one before and no one after.

No one could be saved under the law before or after the cross.

Sin was before the law - Rom 5:13 and Gal 3:19.

Which law would that be?

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

John 5:45 "No be ye supposing that I shall be accusing of ye toward the Father,
is the one accusing of ye, Moses into whom ye have hoped"
[Luke 16:31/Reve 12:10]

Luke 16:31 Saying yet to him "if Moses and the Prophets not they are hearing, neither if ever anyone out of dead-ones may be rising/anasth <450> (5632), they shall be being persuaded".

Acts 25:11 For if I be an offender or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die.
But if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them.
I appeal unto Caesar!

 

[Frogster]

Ignorance of the law does not give you a "get away with anything card."

But law does not let you get away with anything.

Heb 2;2For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution,

Said again, "without mercy".



10;28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses

 

[visionary]

But law does not let you get away with anything.

Heb 2;2For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution,

Said again, "without mercy".



10;28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses

Exactly... only Yeshua gave us mercy and the grace by which we can receive forgiveness of sins.. and the freedom to move forward in faith into His Way of Life.

 

[from scratch]

Ignorance of the law does not give you a "get away with anything card."

You're absolutely correct. However one must be obligated to something in order to violate it. No law - No transgression. I didn't say it was not possible to sin. The Christian isn't obligated to the law anywhere - See Acts 15, Gal 5 and I Tim 1:8-10. To claim that the law applies to you is admitting that indeed you're lawless.

 

[Frogster]

You're absolutely correct. However one must be obligated to something in order to violate it. No law - No transgression. I didn't say it was not possible to sin. The Christian isn't obligated to the law anywhere - See Acts 15, Gal 5 and I Tim 1:8-10. To claim that the law applies to you is admitting that indeed you're lawless.

good one..

love the 4:15 usage.

I wish people knew we were children of promise, like it says in Hebrews.

 

[Frogster]

Exactly... only Yeshua gave us mercy and the grace by which we can receive forgiveness of sins.. and the freedom to move forward in faith into His Way of Life.

Yeshua wants you to know, that you have not come to gloom and darkness, a mountain that can be touched....12


Sis, lets come to the joyus assembly instead.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Frogster,

Well, I believe the Spirit inspired the NT, so yes, he did not write it, but he did.

Well yes, and all the more reason why one cant say Jesus vs Paul anymore than Jesus vs Matthew.
Paul preached what he received from the risen Lord (Galatians 1)