Jesus vs Paul, law abolishment. A simple answer, from a frog.

[Gregory Thompson]

yeah Matthew does add some jewish spin to luke . best to go back to luke to find the true concept . Jesus and Paul aren't disagreeing at all . lol . "it is finished"

 

[heymikey80]

show me how i am pitting 5 against 7?

Like I said ...

12Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. Rom 5:12-14

Sin isn't dead in any sense depriving Paul's earlier statements of truth.

Sin's alive. Proof: we're dying. We were dying pre-law. So the law didn't make sin alive in any sense of Romans 5.

 

[heymikey80]

Look Mike..the "through" word...what did sin work "through"?

Sin worked through the Law.

But saying that doesn't make it any different.

Sin also worked through Adam.

Sin also worked through you.

Sin worked through that which was good, just, holy.

Look, Frogster: What's doing the sinful actions?[/quote]

When did sin revive?

9I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;

Again, when I look introspectively, I became vividly aware of sin in myself when learning what the Law's precepts prohibited.

What did sin use?


11for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.

Sin uses good things all the time. It's not a surprise that the sin in me exploits what's good that's given to me. It's not even remarkable. What'd Eve do?

12So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. Rom 7:12

 

[from scratch]

Like I said ...

Sin's alive. Proof: we're dying. We were dying pre-law. So the law didn't make sin alive in any sense of Romans 5.

Only the flesh is if you're a Christian.

 

[Frogster]

Like I said ...

Sin's alive. Proof: we're dying. We were dying pre-law. So the law didn't make sin alive in any sense of Romans 5.

Where did I say sin was alive in 5? I said it was added to increase trespass, and sin, as 5 shows.

But in7, Paul was saved, and he said it aroused sin, sin worked 'through' the command etc, that is a fact.

8But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.

 

[heymikey80]

Where did I say sin was alive in 5? I said it was added to increase trespass, and sin, as 5 shows.

Sin's clearly alive if it's killing people.

But in7, Paul was saved, and he said it aroused sin, sin worked 'through' the command etc, that is a fact.

That's not a fact. That's not what Paul said, so it's not a fact. Translating "through" into "aroused by" in the sense you're asserting forces the Law to become a cause -- when it's clearly not.

What's really regrettable about this translation is that 7:4 actually uses a word normally translated "roused".

Get a wooden translation from Greek, or an interlinear. You'll see how much liberty this is taking with Paul's statement. Paul attributes this whole action to sin, working through the Law just like it works through everything: corrupting our use of it. Sin was working through the law to bear deadly fruit. Now'f you want to listen to someone who translated interpret for ya, that's your business. But don't attribute it to Paul.

8But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.

Sin's the problem. The Law is words on paper, it's not something that's going to express power over sin, but will simply declare its penalty.

And what's sin do? "Oh, look, a great description of sins we could do, right here in the Law!"

 

[Frogster]

Sin's clearly alive if it's killing people.


That's not a fact. That's not what Paul said, so it's not a fact. Translating "through" into "aroused by" in the sense you're asserting forces the Law to become a cause -- when it's clearly not.

What's really regrettable about this translation is that 7:4 actually uses a word normally translated "roused".

Get a wooden translation from Greek, or an interlinear. You'll see how much liberty this is taking with Paul's statement. Paul attributes this whole action to sin, working through the Law just like it works through everything: corrupting our use of it. Sin was working through the law to bear deadly fruit. Now'f you want to listen to someone who translated interpret for ya, that's your business. But don't attribute it to Paul.


Sin's the problem. The Law is words on paper, it's not something that's going to express power over sin, but will simply declare its penalty.

And what's sin do? "Oh, look, a great description of sins we could do, right here in the Law!"

Mike, your really over pressing this..

I can solve it in one easy question, right out of the context....

Why was sin dead, apart from law, that worked through the command?


Lookie here, plain as day...


7;8But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

If something is through it, it needs it.

Then once u admit I'm right, we can go to the power of sin, being the law, 1 cor 15:56.

 

[Frogster]

Sin's clearly alive if it's killing people.

That's not a fact. That's not what Paul said, so it's not a fact. Translating "through" into "aroused by" in the sense you're asserting forces the Law to become a cause -- when it's clearly not.

What's really regrettable about this translation is that 7:4 actually uses a word normally translated "roused".

Get a wooden translation from Greek, or an interlinear. You'll see how much liberty this is taking with Paul's statement. Paul attributes this whole action to sin, working through the Law just like it works through everything: corrupting our use of it. Sin was working through the law to bear deadly fruit. Now'f you want to listen to someone who translated interpret for ya, that's your business. But don't attribute it to Paul.


Sin's the problem. The Law is words on paper, it's not something that's going to express power over sin, but will simply declare its penalty.

And what's sin do? "Oh, look, a great description of sins we could do, right here in the Law!"

Mike, in your home, does electricity travel..through the wires?

 

[David64]

Mike, in your home, does electricity travel..through the wires?

It may be a small thing but electricity does not travel through wires in his house, your house or through wires anywhere else.

 

[Frogster]

It may be a small thing but electricity does not travel through wires in his house, your house or through wires anywhere else.

then stick your finger in a light socket.

 

[Frogster]

Sin's clearly alive if it's killing people.

well of course sin lives in the flesh..

7:17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

Like I said, it was added to the old creation order of the flesh, and as 7 confirms, if we walk under law, it will connect us to the flesh.

5:20:The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,

That's not a fact. That's not what Paul said, so it's not a fact. Translating "through" into "aroused by" in the sense you're asserting forces the Law to become a cause -- when it's clearly not.

What's really regrettable about this translation is that 7:4 actually uses a word normally translated "roused".

Get a wooden translation from Greek, or an interlinear. You'll see how much liberty this is taking with Paul's statement. Paul attributes this whole action to sin, working through the Law just like it works through everything: corrupting our use of it. Sin was working through the law to bear deadly fruit. Now'f you want to listen to someone who translated interpret for ya, that's your business. But don't attribute it to Paul.


Sin's the problem. The Law is words on paper, it's not something that's going to express power over sin, but will simply declare its penalty.

And what's sin do? "Oh, look, a great description of sins we could do, right here in the Law!"

 

[heymikey80]

well of course sin lives in the flesh..

7:17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

Like I said, it was added to the old creation order of the flesh, and as 7 confirms, if we walk under law, it will connect us to the flesh.

5:20:The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,

and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me Rom 7:10

The problem of course is that the Law isn't designed for compliance in the old, corrupt creation. It's a stipulation to the old creation that it is not conformed to God's justice.

 

[Frogster]

and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me Rom 7:10

The problem of course is that the Law isn't designed for compliance in the old, corrupt creation. It's a stipulation to the old creation that it is not conformed to God's justice.

He is just quoting lev 18:5 there, he said in Gal 3:21, the law does not give life.

Mike..can mold live ( sin) on, or through a dead thing?

 

[New_Wineskin]

He is just quoting lev 18:5 there, he said in Gal 3:21, the law does not give life.

Mike..can mold live ( sin) on, or through a dead thing?

Almost 200 posts in this thread . Just think how many would be writen if you gave us a *complex* answer .

 

[heymikey80]

He is just quoting lev 18:5 there, he said in Gal 3:21, the law does not give life.

Mike..can mold live ( sin) on, or through a dead thing?

Paul is simply saying the direction of the law is not its result when it is co-opted by a sinful human being.

Frogster, can people live on without air?

 

[Frogster]

Almost 200 posts in this thread . Just think how many would be writen if you gave us a *complex* answer .

I hear ya!
Good to se ya..

 

[Frogster]

Paul is simply saying the direction of the law is not its result when it is co-opted by a sinful human being.

Frogster, can people live on without air?

u get an A+ for creativity, but d- on facts.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Paul is simply saying the direction of the law is not its result when it is co-opted by a sinful human being.

Frogster, can people live on without air?

I suppose that depends on whether it is "carnal" or "spiritual" air

Ephesians 2:2 in which when ye walk in accord to the age of this world, in accord to the chief/ruler of the authority of the air/aeroV <109>,
of the spirit the now in-working in the sons of the stubborn

Reve 16:17 and the seventh Messenger pours out the bowl/vial of him into the air/aera <109>
and came out a great voice from the Sanctuary of-the heaven from the throne saying "it has become"/gegonen <1096> (5754).
[Reve 21:6]

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G109 matches the Greek &#7936;&#8053;&#961; (a&#275;r), which occurs 7 times in 7 verses in the Greek concordance

#109 used 7 times. 1 time Acts, 4 times Eipstles, 2 times Revelation.

 

[David64]

then stick your finger in a light socket.

Why? Like all of your false reasoning that won't prove your point.

 

[heymikey80]

u get an A+ for creativity, but d- on facts.

That's okay -- you're not my pedagogue.

It's not creativity, btw. I'm paraphrasing Nicoll.

So as to facts -- the fact is, the translation you're favoring has little to do with the original Greek, which doesn't really appear to hold your view. (Nicoll's author of the "Expositor's New Testament").