Gods Big Bang

[Michael]

Let's enumerate all the ways in which this argument is circular.

The first part assumes that the universe - which you would consider "an example of trillions of working circuits" - is A or B. Then the second part assumes that A and B require intelligence.

Both of your assumptions are part of your conclusion, that all these "circuits" are evidence of God.

It's only a circular argument if you can provide a physical example of a logical C option.

Living organisms contain lots of circuits. Intelligently designed things can certainly contain lots of active circuitry. What other example can you cite?

 

[Freodin]

That's a bit of an irony overload from my perspective since no one has provided an example of trillions of working circuits that aren't A) part of a living organism, or B) an intelligently designed piece of equipment, both of which falsify "atheism" since both would imply/require preexisting intelligence.

You haven't provided evidence of "trillions of working circuits". You should start with that before you go of drawing conclusions from it.

 

[Michael]

You haven't provided evidence of "trillions of working circuits". You should start with that before you go of drawing conclusions from it.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7584137-13/#post58395643

Actually, I started posting a short list of supporting papers in the appropriate thread. Maybe we should continue that discussion in the appropriate thread?

 

[Freodin]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7584137-13/#post58395643

Actually, I started posting a short list of supporting papers in the appropriate thread. Maybe we should continue that discussion in the appropriate thread?

Conscience is electricity, therefore electricity is conscience?

 

[mzungu]

But I already answered THAT question. He's everywhere. From my perspective it's exactly like asking me "where is the universe"?



Go stand in the sunshine today. You'll feel his warmth on your skin.

Then you obviously have no idea as to the meaning of the words "Empirical" and "Theory". What you call Empirical evidence is nothing more than pure speculation if not philosophical pondering.

Either give us empirical evidence of God's whereabouts or be bold enough to admit that you have none!

 

[Naraoia]

It's only a circular argument if you can provide a physical example of a logical C option.

Sorry, wrong. Circularity lies in the structure of an argument, not in its content.

You assumed your conclusion, plain and simple. That doesn't make you wrong, it only makes your conclusion unsupported by that argument.

 

[steve_bakr]

Then you obviously have no idea as to the meaning of the words "Empirical" and "Theory". What you call Empirical evidence is nothing more than pure speculation if not philosophical pondering.

Either give us empirical evidence of God's whereabouts or be bold enough to admit that you have none!

All of God's wonderful creation bears witness to the glory of God. As Jesus said, "Let those who have ears hear." He is the source of all things.

 

[Naraoia]

All of God's wonderful creation bears witness to the glory of God. As Jesus said, "Let those who have ears hear." He is the source of all things.

Including traumatic insemination, cannibalism, sleeping sickness and good old human nastiness, eh?

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Including traumatic insemination, cannibalism, sleeping sickness and good old human nastiness, eh?

Some more fun times created by the "all-loving" savior.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_diseases_associated_with_infectious_pathogens

Six Horrifying Parasites.

Parasites are so cool, huh?

 

[Naraoia]

Some more fun times created by the "all-loving" savior.

List of human diseases associated with infectious pathogens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Six Horrifying Parasites.

Fun article, though they really shouldn't have called Sacculina a slug. *grumps*

Parasites are so cool, huh?

So long as they bother someone else

 

[mzungu]

Fun article, though they really shouldn't have called Sacculina a slug. *grumps*

So long as they bother someone else

I have seen most o of the parasites in Africa. As for the tongue biter I removed one from a rock cod's mouth and the damn thing which looked like a giant cockroach with legs attached to my palm and I had a hard time prying it off! I also had many a times contracted plasmodium fulciparum and plasmodium vivax. Nasty little buggers! Almost kicked the bucket too

 

[Jazer]

Including traumatic insemination, cannibalism, sleeping sickness and good old human nastiness, eh?

Do you know what it means to be a new creation in Christ? "Therefore if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold all things have become new." 2 cor 5 17.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 6 23

 

[Naraoia]

Do you know what it means to be a new creation in Christ? "Therefore if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold all things have become new." 2 cor 5 17.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 6 23

What is the sin of a female bed bug?

 

[AV1611VET]

What is the sin of a female bed bug?

Tresspassing.

 

[Naraoia]

Tresspassing.

Please explain?

 

[AV1611VET]

Please explain?

Don't you know what trespassing is?

If not, just mosey next door and walk right in and help yourself to what's in the refrigerator.

 

[Naraoia]

Don't you know what trespassing is?

If not, just mosey next door and walk right in and help yourself to what's in the refrigerator.

I know what trespassing is, I'm just not sure why bed bugs are doing it.

OK, if human parasites complicate the example too much, any other victim of nature's general nastiness suits my purposes. What was the sin of the crabs who get hijacked by Sacculina? Of the potential fruit flies who die as immature sperm because of a "selfish" gene? Could go on.

 

[AV1611VET]

I know what trespassing is, I'm just not sure why bed bugs are doing it.

OK, if human parasites complicate the example too much, any other victim of nature's general nastiness suits my purposes. What was the sin of the crabs who get hijacked by Sacculina? Of the potential fruit flies who die as immature sperm because of a "selfish" gene? Could go on.

Okay, I'm guilty of playing along; but is there a specific point you're trying to make with this line of questioning?

 

[Naraoia]

Okay, I'm guilty of playing along; but is there a specific point you're trying to make with this line of questioning?

Well, look back to Jazer's post that started it. If it was actually an attempt at answering me, then it seemed to imply that all the horrible and creepy things in nature are "the wages of sin".

I was just wondering what "sin" that would be. I mean, I know humans are sinners according to you guys' theology, but horrible creepy things don't just happen to us.

Of course, there is the possibility that Jazer wasn't trying to respond to me. He seems quite good at quoting a post and then saying something completely irrelevant.

In which case I typed all of this for nothing

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, look back to Jazer's post that started it. If it was actually an attempt at answering me, then it seemed to imply that all the horrible and creepy things in nature are "the wages of sin".

I was just wondering what "sin" that would be. I mean, I know humans are sinners according to you guys' theology, but horrible creepy things don't just happen to us.

Of course, there is the possibility that Jazer wasn't trying to respond to me. He seems quite good at quoting a post and then saying something completely irrelevant.

In which case I typed all of this for nothing

These 'horrible and creepy things' -- including thorns and thistles, are all a result of the Fall.

In other words, they are the result of perfect genes being cursed.

A good way to picture it would be to watch a beautifully-sculpted snowman slowly melt under the hot sun.