God hates atheists

[JGG]

In context to what I previously wrote, yes. Please read my longer post to capture how and why.

What changed His mind?

 

[LogosRhema]

What changed His mind?

Read my longer post...

 

[norswede]

From KJV:

Psalm 53:1 - The fool hath said in his heart, "There is no God." Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

And what does God think of fools and those who do iniquity?

Psalm 5:5 - The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

from the Hebrew Interlinear Edition:
Psalm 53:1 - he says decadent one in heart of him there is no Elohim they are corrupt and they are abhorrent iniquity there is no one doing of good.

Psalm 5:5 - not they shall station themselves ones boasting to in front of eyes of you you hate all of ones contriving of lawlessness.

Why would I believe in a God who hates me for not believing in Him? What would happen if my faith faltered? Would God sort of hate me?

It all comes down to what is in your heart. If you reject God, he will reject you. If you were a Christian and had problems with your faith, God would help you through it if you turned to him. But I have a hard time imagining how someone who actually has the Holy Spirit within them could turn from their faith. Anyone with the Holy Spirit in them knows what I'm talking about. The feeling and influence on our lives are too intense and hard to deny.

 

[razeontherock]

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, [yet] he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself."

This is my experience; His Presence transcends our beliefs.

 

[LogosRhema]

God chose us way before we chose Him and the only reason we choose Him is because of His goodness. Not some remote ploy and fear tactic of rejection and hell.

 

[JGG]

Read my longer post...

Yeah, if I may say so, that longer post is not particularly straightforward. It has a lot of "soft" words and phrases.

Instead of focusing on what was, let's look at the reality of scripture now. The new testament says that we were cocrucified with Christ on the cross, it says that our "old man" died with Christ and we also take part in His resurrection. Our carnal nature was circumcised off in our realization of the reality of the cross.

Can you be more precise in terms of what this means? What does "old man" refer to? What is our carnal nature precisely? How was it circumcised off? What is the reality of the cross, and how do we realize it?

This is one of the mysteries and reasons for the cross. This sinful and carnal man that, as the Bible says, was absolutely against God no matter what, has died.

I don't get what this actually refers to. If that man is dead, what do we have now?

So the answer? It was yes, but the reality of the cross makes the answer no.

But God set up the events that lead to Christ's crucifixion (I assume that's what "the reality of the cross" refers to). Why did God suddelny decide to set up the crucifixion of Christ if He already hated those it would "save?"

What of those who don't believe yet? Well, the Bible says that Christ died for all of mankind. In my mind, all of mankind has been cocrucified with Him. Then why are they still doing evil things? That's where faith comes in.

That's where faith comes in, what?

Although they may not have faith in the reality of the cross that still does not mean grace covers them.

I've been told it doesn't, and that's why I'm going to hell.

Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.

Many live in this make believe world, alienating themselves in their own minds in thought and actions.

Again, I don't know what this means. Which make believe world? Alienating themselves?

It doesn't change that the reality around them that grace is real. Faith doesn't manifest Christ's death, but faith is the realization of this new creation reality, that they are free from the law of sin and death.

New creation reality? The law of sin and death?

As it stands now. God does not hate atheists or even the most evil man. The reality of it all is that man is dead in the spiritual and Christ covers them. God is not provoked to wrath but provoked to draw near as the iniquity of the man will catch up to him and in never failing hope the man will call out for help. Where sin is, grace abounds the more.

You're saying God used to hate atheists but doesn't now. And I should point out that according to the OT, God is frequently provoked to wrath. I assume God hasn't changed, have atheists?

 

[JGG]

It all comes down to what is in your heart. If you reject God, he will reject you. If you were a Christian and had problems with your faith, God would help you through it if you turned to him. But I have a hard time imagining how someone who actually has the Holy Spirit within them could turn from their faith. Anyone with the Holy Spirit in them knows what I'm talking about. The feeling and influence on our lives are too intense and hard to deny.

I assume you don't understand what a crisis of faith actually is...

 

[LogosRhema]

Yeah, if I may say so, that longer post is not particularly straightforward. It has a lot of "soft" words and phrases.

Can you be more precise in terms of what this means? What does "old man" refer to? What is our carnal nature precisely? How was it circumcised off? What is the reality of the cross, and how do we realize it?

I don't get what this actually refers to. If that man is dead, what do we have now?

But God set up the events that lead to Christ's crucifixion (I assume that's what "the reality of the cross" refers to). Why did God suddelny decide to set up the crucifixion of Christ if He already hated those it would "save?"

That's where faith comes in, what?

I've been told it doesn't, and that's why I'm going to hell.

Again, I don't know what this means. Which make believe world? Alienating themselves?

New creation reality? The law of sin and death?

You're saying God used to hate atheists but doesn't now. And I should point out that according to the OT, God is frequently provoked to wrath. I assume God hasn't changed, have atheists?

I will respond after work and be more precise. I will show you what I mean exactly, its not at all bad as you may have heard previously. It's literally all good. Compile more questions for me if you have them.

 

[Mr Dave]

Mod-Hat On

This thread has been moved to Exploring Christianity.


Mod-Hat Off​

 

[fschmidt]

From KJV:

Psalm 53:1 - The fool hath said in his heart, "There is no God." Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

And what does God think of fools and those who do iniquity?

Psalm 5:5 - The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

from the Hebrew Interlinear Edition:
Psalm 53:1 - he says decadent one in heart of him there is no Elohim they are corrupt and they are abhorrent iniquity there is no one doing of good.

Psalm 5:5 - not they shall station themselves ones boasting to in front of eyes of you you hate all of ones contriving of lawlessness.

Why would I believe in a God who hates me for not believing in Him? What would happen if my faith faltered? Would God sort of hate me?

I hope no one minds if I answer this, atheist to atheist, from a strictly Old Testament perspective.

No one claims that the Book of Psalms is the word of God. It is supposed to consist of a collection of prayers written by men to God. As such, it is basically irrelevant for documenting the nature of God. God's actual commandments in the Old Testament are found in the Torah and nowhere in the Torah does God ask people to believe in him. God only asks that people behave morally. What God hates, without question, is immorality and beliefs associated with immorality. So at the time of the Old Testament, God hated Baal worship. Today God would undoubtedly hate liberalism which the modern equivalent of Baal worship. In Jeremiah 35, God actually praises the Rechabites who don't believe in God for following their own moral traditions. This example makes clear that the God of the Old Testament is concerned with morality, not belief. The Christian view on this is quite different, but I am just presenting the Old Testament view here.

I don't believe in the supernatural, so I interpret God simply as natural law. I don't like calling myself an atheist because atheism is associate with liberalism which I despise. So instead, I just say that I believe in God but define him only as natural law (the laws of nature).

 

[Matariki]

I agree that it's not just picking on atheists. I just picked that because I happen to be something of an atheist, and with the example I provided "atheist" comes through quite clearly. In fact, the website I swiped this from happens to state that God hates pretty much everyone who is not the proper type of Chrisitan. I found something similar on the Westboro Baptist Website as well.

What is "God [wasn't/isn't] exactly happy with anyone..." meant to imply?

Was God happy when Adam and Eve ate the fruit that God forbid? They were our representatives and we (according to the bible) are their descendants.

I suggest reading the parable of the workers in the vineyard.
Matthew 20:1 - 16

And please, because I am a Calvinist it doesn't mean I share the same extreme views as they do, in fact I would go as far as saying that they aren't Christian considering their practices, they've completely missed the gospel by a long shot.
Matthew 7:16

 

[JGG]

Was God happy when Adam and Eve ate the fruit that God forbid? They were our representatives and we (according to the bible) are their descendants.

I suggest reading the parable of the workers in the vineyard.
Matthew 20:1 - 16

I'm not really sure how this applies to your point.

And please, because I am a Calvinist it doesn't mean I share the same extreme views as they do, in fact I would go as far as saying that they aren't Christian considering their practices, they've completely missed the gospel by a long shot.
Matthew 7:16

You identify as a Calvinist, but Calvinists are extremists, and not really Christians? That's an interesting stance...Perhaps you're not actually a Calvinist?

 

[razeontherock]

I hope no one minds if I answer this, atheist to atheist, from a strictly Old Testament perspective.

No one claims that the Book of Psalms is the word of God. It is supposed to consist of a collection of prayers written by men to God. As such, it is basically irrelevant for documenting the nature of God. God's actual commandments in the Old Testament are found in the Torah and nowhere in the Torah does God ask people to believe in him. God only asks that people behave morally. What God hates, without question, is immorality and beliefs associated with immorality. So at the time of the Old Testament, God hated Baal worship. Today God would undoubtedly hate liberalism which the modern equivalent of Baal worship. In Jeremiah 35, God actually praises the Rechabites who don't believe in God for following their own moral traditions. This example makes clear that the God of the Old Testament is concerned with morality, not belief. The Christian view on this is quite different, but I am just presenting the Old Testament view here.

I don't believe in the supernatural, so I interpret God simply as natural law. I don't like calling myself an atheist because atheism is associate with liberalism which I despise. So instead, I just say that I believe in God but define him only as natural law (the laws of nature).

Interesting perspective! Christianity clearly disagrees, G-d's Nature IS revealed in Psalms but anyway, can you explain how liberalism = baal worship?

 

[theWaris1]

God hates sin.. yes God calls unbelievers fools but I believe everyone knows there is a God and some are just running.

God has to call or draw everyone of us or else we just wont have any understanding of him. I don't think he is planning on saving everyone at this particular time. But his sacrifice was for every sin on earth and his desire is that all come to know Christ as savior. Can his desires be fulfilled? Well if he says so they will.

1Ti 4:10 for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men--especially* of those believing.
1Ti 4:11 Command these things, and teach;

(*especially means mainly or chiefly but does not omit the other)


Think on these:

Job 12:6 The tabernacles of robbers prosper, and they that provoke God are secure; into whose hand God bringeth abundantly.

~Why would God make robbers prosper and allow them an abundance yet he hates them?

9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this?
10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.

God is in control of everything and everyone.

16 With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.

Some are deceived but they are still his children..

20 He removeth away the speech of the trusty, and taketh away the understanding of the aged.

God removes the truth from the truthful and the wisdom of the old.


Imo, Yahweh is allowing some men to remain non believers or an adversary to our faith for the purpose of learning.

.

 

[fschmidt]

but anyway, can you explain how liberalism = baal worship?

If you look at the later prophets in the Old Testament and look at the specific complaints of God, you will see that all these complaints also apply to liberalism. Both liberalism and Baal worship:

- Make people stop believing in God.
- Make people superstitious (like New Age stuff)
- Increase sexual immorality.
- Increase selfishness and decadence.
- Cause people to lose their traditions.

The general decadence caused by Baal worship, and by liberalism, is well described in Micah 7:

--------------------------------------
How sad for me!
For I am like one who-
when the summer fruit has been gathered
after the gleaning of the grape harvest -
[finds] no grape cluster to eat,
no early fig, which I crave.

Godly people have vanished from the land;
there is no one upright among the people.
All of them wait in ambush to shed blood;
they hunt each other with a net.

Both hands are good at accomplishing evil:
the official and the judge demand a bribe;
when the powerful man communicates his evil desire,
they plot it together.

The best of them is like a brier;
the most upright is worse than a hedge of thorns.
The day of your watchmen,
[the day of] your punishment, is coming;
at this time their panic is here.

Do not rely on a friend;
don't trust in a close companion.
Seal your mouth
from the woman who lies in your arms.

For a son considers his father a fool,
a daughter opposes her mother,
and a daughter-in-law is against her mother-in-law;
a person's enemies are the people in his own home.
--------------------------------------

In history, there have been moral systems that cause society to succeed and immoral system that cause society to collapse. Rising Western societies all had a strong patriarchal god who enforced morality. Besides your Judeo-Christian god, Zeus and Jupiter certainly qualified as good gods. These gods represented the morality needed to make society prosper. When these societies abandoned their gods, they became decadent and declined. In Rome, people abandoned their traditional gods and began worshipping foreign gods like Isis. This caused the loss of morality in Rome. The result was much like liberalism, a loss of patriarchy and integrity, and a rise of feminism and selfishness. History repeats itself over and over again. The only representative of morality in our times is the Judeo-Christian god. Anyone who values morality must support this god because there are no alternatives. Liberalism will only lead moral decay and the eventual collapse of society, just as Baal worship did for Judah. The Old Testament teaches us the core lesson of history, that a society prospers as long as it sticks to its traditions, morals, and the god(s) that represent these things. When the people abandon all this and think they are "progressive" for rejecting the old, they are just repeating the history of all declining cultures.

 

[theWaris1]

liberalism, is well described in Micah 7:

Do not rely on a friend;
don't trust in a close companion.
Seal your mouth
from the woman who lies in your arms.

For a son considers his father a fool,
a daughter opposes her mother,
and a daughter-in-law is against her mother-in-law;
a person's enemies are the people in his own home.
--------------------------------------

That sounds like it was talking about my family growing up.


And Micah 2 is very revealing and sounds like now.

Mic 2:1 Woe to them that devise iniquity, and work evil upon their beds(harlots)! when the morning is light, they practise it, because it is in the power of their hand(Laws).
Mic 2:2 And they covet fields, and take them by violence(force); and houses, and take them away: so they oppress a man and his house, even a man and his heritage.
Mic 2:3 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, against this family do I devise an evil, from which ye shall not remove your necks; neither shall ye go haughtily: for this time is evil.
Mic 2:4 In that day shall one take up a parable against you, and lament with a doleful lamentation, and say, We be utterly spoiled: he hath changed the portion of my people: how hath he removed it from me! turning away he hath divided our fields.
Mic 2:5 Therefore thou shalt have none that shall cast a cord by lot in the congregation of the LORD.
Mic 2:6 Prophesy ye not, say they to them that prophesy: they shall not prophesy to them, that they shall not take shame.
Mic 2:7 O thou that art named the house of Jacob, is the spirit of the LORD straitened? are these his doings? do not my words do good to him that walketh uprightly?
Mic 2:8 Even of late my people is risen up as an enemy: ye pull off the robe with the garment from them that pass by securely as men averse from war.
Mic 2:9 The women of my people have ye cast out from their pleasant houses; from their children have ye taken away my glory for ever.
Mic 2:10 Arise ye, and depart;for this is not your rest: because it is polluted, it shall destroy you, even with a sore destruction.

.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

I'm not really sure how this applies to your point.



You identify as a Calvinist, but Calvinists are extremists, and not really Christians? That's an interesting stance...Perhaps you're not actually a Calvinist?

The WBC doesn't represent standard Five Point Calvinism. It represents their own warped form of Hyper-Calvinism.

If one wanted to know about classic Calvinism they would read the works of John Calvin, the Canons of Dordt (which more-or-less defined Calvinistic orthodoxy against the Arminian party), the Westminster Confession, and the Heidelberg Catechism.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Emmy]

Dear JGG. God is Love, and God does not Hate, God abhors, or dislikes intensely, but never hates. God loves us all, but atheist turn away from God, and God does not force anyone. Jesus died for all Mankind, and atheists will not accept this. We are given years on Earth to learn to love as God wants us to, love God with all our beings, and love each other as we love ourselves. God is our Heavenly Father, and God wants us back again: BUT we have to " Repent," to change from being selfish and unloving TO: loving selflessly and no conditions asked. God made us in His image, and God wants us to be with Him. Jesus is our Saviour and The Way, and Jesus will lead us back again. We have to spread the Good News to all, atheists included. Love is a Christian`s weapon to overcome the world, and Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will give us His Love, too. Jesus told us to: " ask and receive," and with God on our side who can be against us? I say this with love, JGG. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[razeontherock]

G-d certainly hates!

"These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:
(Proverbs 6:17) A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

Notice none of these say G-d hates any individual human. And Mr OP, no atheists; sorry to spoil your theory. These are all attributes any of us can have; spiritual things.

Fschmidt, thank you for answering my question so fully! Very insightful. I do think some liberals would protest being associated with some of the things you cite, but overall, we are witnessing "the fall of Rome." Once the dollar is no longer the global currency, we're done. Once OPEC no longer sets it's prices based on the USD we're down, never to recover. Anybody with real money is fleeing the US.

 

[addo]

Hm... how should I put this? Yes, in a sense God "hates" atheists. He "hates" sinners. By this it is to be meant that God has an extreme dislike for sinners, for "workers of iniquity" as it said in the Psalms. God is angry with them. Sinners will face the wrath of God. God does not approve of it, and neither is he pleased with sinners.

But yet He also "loves" them in the sense that He desires them good. He wants them to repent and live. He wants them to have eternal life with him. He does not desire that they continue in their wicked ways. He wants them to turn away from that and accept His salvation.

So yes, in a sense God "hates" sinners but also "loves" them. I understand God's "hate" to refer to his dislike of sinners; He's 'angry' with them. And we understand God's "love" as meaning God desires the best for the sinners. He wishes that they would repent and accept His offer of salvation from sin and receive eternal life. This "love" of God has been shown when He provided a means of salvation trough Jesus Christ, His Son.

I hope this makes sense.