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The Bereans

ivebeenshown

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Hey COOL.

Acts 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Romans 11
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Here as well, this speaking of Jesus Christ

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Acts 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

God bless

yepp the law points to the Jesus and the Jesus leads us all into places we would have never imagined on our own .
 
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Fireinfolding

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Hey COOL.

Acts 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Romans 11
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree

:thumbsup:
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Psalm 125:5 As for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways, the LORD shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity: but peace shall be upon Israel.


^_^ Too kool!
 
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razeontherock

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I'm more concerned with the spiritual wickedness that the alternative inspires - this insistence that "When I alone speak GOD is speaking (CCC 87, etc.)." When I alone speak, all should just embrace it with docility!"

Docility?!? You wanna see docility? I got yer docility right here [/Andrew Dice Clay]
 
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razeontherock

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I just meant Jeremiah preached 20 years .. he was right .. but nothing good came from it . the nation was still destroyed .

1Cr 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
 
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Fireinfolding

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I guess I better ketchup on this thread.
I kinda thought "The Bereans" might be a Protestant Christian Rock band (aren't they all?)lol

Hey, love the name if Berea too

Berea = "well watered":thumbsup:
 
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Gregory Thompson

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1Cr 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

yeah .. so when what happened to Israel happens to it's spiritual mirror in the church .. then the end of the world has come . cool . thanks Ray .
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I think redemptively, scripture over spirit emphasis tends to be like "fish" it actually makes sense like that . it would however be nice if the fish would be able to acknowledge the rest of the creation .. even if they can't enjoy it by breathing above water .

in the revelation the fish all die . it's hard being a fish .
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Hey, love the name if Berea too

Berea = "well watered":thumbsup:
Very interesting! Thanks for that info sis :)

http://www.christianforums.com/t7585054/
Acts 17:11 verse study

Berea baby name meaning, origin and description of Biblical character.

The Biblical baby name Berea is Greek in origin and it's meaning is well watered.
Berea was the name of a city in Macedonia where Paul, Silas and Timotheus stayed for some time.
Acts 17:10,13

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berea_(Bible)

Being positioned at the base of Mount Bermius, which is part of the Olympian Mountain range, the ample supply of water provided a lot for the city and the region. One big contributor of water came from the Haliacmon River, which is the largest river in Greece. The Axius river was also another water supply for Berea.[5]
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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When you make the bible the only way to see God .


Okay. You obviously are not reading the thread or what is being presented to you.


Let's try this again. IF you read this, your total misconception and error will be corrected, I'm confident. Try it!






I'm more concerned with the spiritual wickedness that the alternative inspires - this insistence that "When I alone speak GOD is speaking (CCC 87, etc.)." When I alone speak, all should just embrace it with docility!" "I appoint ME as the sole interpreter of Scripture in the heart of myself (CCC 85, 113, etc.)!" "YOU are accountability cuz you can be wrong, but I alone say there is one alone who CAN'T be wrong about this stuff, that I alone insist that one is ME!" My study of the cults and of the early LDS strongly taught me of the danger and "spiritual wickedness" of such ego, such self-centeredness, such fear of accountability. I was active in the RCC in those days, too. I left.


I don't know what you fear about accountability or about Scripture. I CAN see why you might be afraid of those who exclude SELF from accountability and norming - but you need to take that up with the denominations that do that, none of which are Protestant.







True. And that's what the RCC and LDS want as they so passionately reject accountability and the Rule of Scripture in norming. Read the quote below, especially the last section (I'lll put it in larger font for you):




The Rule of Scripture in Norming
(What Luther and Calvin called "Sola Scriptura")


The Definition:



The Rule of Scripture is the practice of embracing Scripture as the rule ("straight edge") - canon ("measuring stick") - norma normans (the norm that norms) as it is called in epistemology, as we examine and evaluate the positions (especially doctrines) among us.



Here is the official, historic definition:
"The Scriptures are and should remain the sole rule in the norming of all doctrine among us" (Lutheran Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration, Rule and Norm, 9). "We pledge ourselves to the prophetic and apostolic writings of the Old and New Testaments as the pure and clear fountain of Israel, which is the only true norm according to which all teachers and teachings are to be judged" (ditto, 3).


What it IS
:


1. An embrace of accountability for the doctrines among us (especially those in dispute).



2. An embrace of norming (the process of examining positions for truth, correctness, validity).



3. An embrace of Scripture as the best, most sound rule/canon/norma normans for this process.




What it is NOT
:


1. A teaching that all revelation or truth is found in Scripture. It's not a teaching at all, it is the PRACTICE of using Scripture as the rule in the norming of doctrines. Scripture itself says that "the heavens declare the glory of God" but our visual reception of the stars is not used as the norma normans for the evaluation of doctrines among us in the practice of Sola Scriptura.



2. A teaching that Scripture is "finished." It's not a teaching at all. While probably all that practice Sola Scripture agree with all others that God seems to have inscribed His last book around 100 AD and doens't seem to be adding any more books, the Rule of Scripture was just as "valid" in 1400 BC when Scripture consisted of just two stone tablets as it is today - only the corpus of Scripture is larger, that has no impact on the practice of embracing it as the rule/canon/norma normans in our evaluation of doctrines among us. The Rule of Scripture embraces the Scripture that is.



3. Hermeneutics. The Rule of Scripture has to do with WHAT is the most sound rule/canon/norma normans for the evaluation of the doctrines among us, it is not a hermeneutical principle. Obviously that Scripture needs to be interpreted, but that's a different subject or another day and thread. The Rule of Scripture has to do with norming, not interpreting.



4. Arbitration. Obviously, some process of determining whether the doctrine under review "measures up" (arbitration) to the "measuring stick" (the canon). This is also beyond the scope here, the Rule of Scripture is the embrace of Scripture AS that canon, it does not address the issue of HOW it is best determined if a position "measures up" to that canon.




An illustration:



Let's say Dave and Fred are neighbors. They decided that they will hire a contractor to build a brick wall on their property line, six feet tall. Dave and Fred hire Bob the Builder. He agrees to build the wall on the property line - six feet tall.

Bob is now done. He claims the wall is six feet tall. Does it matter? If it doesn't, if his work and claim are entirely MOOT - then, nope - truth doesn't matter. And can just ignore what he said and did. OR we can consider that of the nearly 7 billion people in the world, there is ONE who is incapable of being wrong about measurements - and that ONE is Bob the Builder, claims ONE - Bob the Builder. IF Bob the Builder alone is right about what he alone claims about he alone here, it's pretty much a waste of time to wonder if what he said about this is true or not. But, IF truth matters and IF Bob the Builder will permit accountability (perhaps because he is confident the wall IS six feet tall), then we have the issue of accountability: Is the wall what we desire and what Bob the Builder claims it is?


If so, we just embraced norming. Norming is the process of determining correctness of the positions among us. For example, Bob claiming the wall is 6 feet tall. Is that correct? Addressing that question is norming.



Norming typically involves a norm: WHAT will serve as the rule (straight edge) or canon (measuring stick) - WHAT will be embraced by all parties involved in the normative process that is the reliable standard, the plumbline. Perhaps in the case of Fred and Dave, they embrace a standard Sears Measuring Tape. They both have one, Bob does too. Dave, Fred and Bob consider their carpenter's Sears Measuring Tape as reliable for this purpose, it's OBJECTIVE (all 3 men can read the numbers), it's UNALTERABLE (none of the 3 can change what the tape says) and it's OUTSIDE and ABOVE and BEYOND all 3 parties. Using that could be called "The Rule of the Measuring Tape." The Sears Measuring Tape would be the "canon" (the word means 'measuring stick') for this normative process.



Why Scripture?



In epistemology (regardless of discipline), the most sound norma normans is usually regarded as the most objective, most knowable by all and alterable by none, the most universally embraced by all parties as reliable for this purpose. My degree is in physics. Our norma normans is math and repeatable, objective, laborative evidence. Me saying, "what I think is the norm for what I think" will be instantly disregarded as evidential since it's both moot and circular. I would need to evidence and substantiate my view with a norm fully OUTSIDE and ABOVE and BEYOND me - something objective and knowable. This is what The Handbook of the Catholic Faith proclaims (page136), "The Bible is the very words of God and no greater assurance of credence can be given. The Bible was inspired by God. Exactly what does that mean? It means that God Himself is the Author of the Bible. God inspired the penmen to write as He wished.... the authority of the Bible flows directly from the Author of the Bible who is God; it is authoritative because the Author is." Those that accept the Rule of Scripture tend to agree. It's embrace as the most sound Rule flows from our common embrace of Scripture as the inscriptured words of God for God is the ultimate authority.

The embrace of Scripture as the written words of God is among the most historic, ecumenical, universal embraces in all of Christianity. We see this as reliable, dependable, authoritative - it as a very, very, broad and deep embrace as such - typically among all parties involved in the evaluation. (See the illustration above).


It is knowable by all and alterable by none. We can all see the very words of Romans 3:25 for example, they are black letters on a white page - knowable! And they are unalterable. I can't change what is on the page in Romans 3:25, nor can any other; what is is.


It is regarded as authoritative and reliable. It is knowable by all and alterable by none. Those that reject the Rule of Scripture in norming ( the RCC and LDS, for example ) have no better alternative (something more inspired, more inerrant, more ecumenically/historically embraced by all parties, more objectively knowable, more unalterable), they have no alternative that is clearly more sound for this purpose among us.


To simply embrace the teachings of self (sometimes denominational "tradition" or "confession") as the rule/canon is simply self looking in the mirror at self - self almost always reveals self. In communist Cuba, Castro agrees with Castro - it has nothing whatsoever to do with whether Castro is correct. We need a Rule outside, beyond, above self.




Why do some so passionately reject it?



Those that reject the Rule of Scripture in norming tend to do so not because they reject Scripture or have an alternative that is MORE inerrant, MORE the inscripturated words of God, MORE reliable, MORE objectively knowable, MORE unalterable, MORE ecumenically embraced as authoriative. Rather the rejection tends to be because each rejects accountability (and thus norming and any norm in such) in the sole, singular, exclusive, particular, unique case of self alone. From The Handbook of the Catholic Faith (page 151), "When the Catholic is asked for the substantiation for his belief, the correct answer is: From the teaching authority. This authority consists of the bishops of The Catholic Church in connection with the Catholic Pope in Rome. The faithful are thus freed from the typically Protestant question of 'is it true' and instead rests in quiet confidence that whatever the Catholic Church teaches is the teaching of Jesus Himself since Jesus said, 'whoever hears you hears me'." The Catholic Church itself says in the Catechism of itself (#87): Mindful of Christ's words to his apostles: “He who hears you, hears me”, The faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their [Catholic] pastors give them in different forms." IF self declares that self is unaccountable and that self is exempt from the issue of truthfulness, then the entire issue of norming (and the embraced norma normans in such) becomes irrelevant (for self). The issue has been changed from truth to power (claimed by self for self).











.
 
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Fireinfolding

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Very interesting! Thanks for that info sis :)

http://www.christianforums.com/t7585054/
Acts 17:11 verse study

Berea baby name meaning, origin and description of Biblical character.

The Biblical baby name Berea is Greek in origin and it's meaning is well watered.
Berea was the name of a city in Macedonia where Paul, Silas and Timotheus stayed for some time.
Acts 17:10,13

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berea_(Bible)

Being positioned at the base of Mount Bermius, which is part of the Olympian Mountain range, the ample supply of water provided a lot for the city and the region. One big contributor of water came from the Haliacmon River, which is the largest river in Greece. The Axius river was also another water supply for Berea.[5]

Sure better then wells without water

Heres cisterns without water

Jerm 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

Verses

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given] because that Jesus was not yet glorified )

:thumbsup:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Sure better then wells without water

Heres cisterns without water

Jerm 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

Verses

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given] because that Jesus was not yet glorified )

:thumbsup:
I rather like the event of the woman at the well in John 4 :)

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=5690463
The Woman at the Well


YoungLT) John 4:6 and there was there a well of Jacob. Jesus therefore having been weary from the journeying, was sitting thus on the well; it was as it were the sixth hour; [Genesis 29:10]
11 Is saying to Him, the woman "Lord! not a bucket Thou are having and the well/frear <5421> is deep/baqu <901>, whence then Thou are having the living water?"

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth Menssenger trumpets and I saw a Star out of the heaven having fallen into the land, and was given to him the key of the well/freatoV <5421> of the abyss/abussou <12>,
 
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Fireinfolding

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I rather like the event of the woman at the well in John 4 :)

The Woman at the Well - Christian Forums
The Woman at the Well

YoungLT) John 4:6 and there was there a well of Jacob. Jesus therefore having been weary from the journeying, was sitting thus on the well; it was as it were the sixth hour; [Genesis 29:10]
11 Is saying to Him, the woman "Lord! not a bucket Thou are having and the well/frear <5421> is deep/baqu <901>, whence then Thou are having the living water?"

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth Menssenger trumpets and I saw a Star out of the heaven having fallen into the land, and was given to him the key of the well/freatoV <5421> of the abyss/abussou <12>,

Me too bro :thumbsup:

Shown in various ways too, you can work this in

Prov 20:5 Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out.

1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

It was the sixth hour there too, did you notice that Lamb?

Darkness and the sixth hour connect even as the Spirit of God moved upon the face of waters

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Notice void in respects to counsel (His Spirit is of) and darkness (of heart) or as without understanding is shown as opposed to Prov 20:5 in relation to counsel show the same of a people (waters)

Duet 32:28 For they are a nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them.

^_^ Too kool!
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Okay. You obviously are not reading the thread or what is being presented to you.


Let's try this again. IF you read this, your total misconception and error will be corrected, I'm confident. Try it!

i already read it . just because you're convinced of something . it doesn't mean everyone else has to be .
 
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Fireinfolding

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i already read it . just because you're convinced of something . it doesn't mean everyone else has to be .

If only the same grace was extended to others :thumbsup:
 
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Gregory Thompson

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If only the same grace was extended to others :thumbsup:

yes indeed ;) if indeed it were :D

Josiah has not been accusing me of being a false prophet so it kinda allowed for a more civil discourse .
 
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Fireinfolding

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yes indeed ;) if indeed it were :D

Josiah has not been accusing me of being a false prophet so it kinda allowed for a more civil discourse .

Absolutely, we should never "falsely accuse" anyone:thumbsup:

We should judge what they say :thumbsup:
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Absolutely, we should never "falsely accuse" anyone:thumbsup:

We should judge what they say :thumbsup:

I recall in Romans it is written "who are you to judge another man's servant?" it is by God that i stand or fall . i think it a bit presumptuous to be judging like that at all . i mean, if i did that .. you would not be happy .
 
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