How do most Catholics feel about the Novus Ordo?

[OuterWater]

I'm one of the Catholics here who attends the Tridentine Latin Mass whenever I am able to. It takes longer for me to travel there than to my regular parish, but I find it helpful spiritually. Other than that, there's also the Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy (which is just like the Orthodox ).

In the Latin Mass, there are no 'extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion', no women serving at the altar (whether as altar girls or lectors etc), the priest pretty much does everything with the help of maybe a deacon and altar boys. The priest faces the altar. People receive Communion kneeling at the altar rail. Many women cover their heads. The music is Gregorian Chant, in Latin, if there are hymns they are traditional Catholic hymns.

Not everyone would agree with me in preferring this Mass, but this type of Mass is the one that helps me the most spiritually. It communicates the truths of the faith well. Plus there are often very good knowledgeable priests, Confession before every Mass, Eucharistic Adoration and other devotions in the parish, etc. There is good catechesis and reverence in such parishes as well.

I know my post can come across as being very critical of the Novus Ordo and the typical parish... I do believe the Church is going through a difficult time right now due to poor catechesis and the after-effects of the 60s and 70s, where many traditions were thrown out through a misunderstanding of VII. Hopefully in time things would improve. If you see a Mass in the Vatican on tv, it is Novus Ordo but it's more reverent. I'm not against a Novus Ordo done well... though I prefer the Latin Mass for various reasons.

Just my opinion here's a video of a Latin Mass if you are wondering what it is like:

Tridentine Latin Mass: Last Sunday after Pentecost (5/8) - YouTube

That video was beautiful. I love the Tridentine Mass.

 

[OuterWater]

Compare this to the Novus Ordo: Liturgy starts around 3 minutes in, so you can skip to that point.

Solemn High Ambrosian Rite Mass part1/15 - YouTube

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I grew up in Pre-Vatican II and since have been to the Norvos Ordo in Latin.


I prefer the Novus Ordo in English.

Vatican II sought to bring the active participation of the people into the Mass and that has been accomplished.

In the TLM, the priest says the Mass in Latin, which few of the people understand, and many can barely hear at times. The altar servers mimic the responses as they been trained to memorize by rote.

Yeah, it seems more reverent in appearance, but is reverence outward appearances, or is reverence what's going on inside the person's soul, when he/she attends the Liturgy?

The Orthodox wedding I attended recently was similar to pre-Vatican II in that, the priest and cantor sang the prayers of the rite, while the people sat in the pews and some like myself, followed along with the books that were available.

Again, outwardly is was beautiful in an ascetic way, but people were kept at a distance.

I prefer the Novus Order, especially as done in the Monasteries that I've frequently attended Mass at.

Parish Masses have to be for people at all levels of faith, so will not have the style of a Mass done at a Cathedral or monastery.

Jim

 

[TheCunctator]

Compare this to the Novus Ordo: Liturgy starts around 3 minutes in, so you can skip to that point.

Solemn High Ambrosian Rite Mass part1/15 - YouTube

This is glorious.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

This is glorious.

Yes it was beautiful to watch.

However, Mass isn't about watching a beautiful ritual.


Jim

 

[Tigg]

I miss the Tridentine Mass. Beautiful, solume, awe inspiring, respectful max. Given time to pray. The beauty draws me in to the infinite idea of the beauty of God. It calms my soul in a profound way. The ancientness of its years in service as the Mass, draws me closer as well. No I do not know Latin but there were missals. The last I thought of finding and attending a Tridentine Mass was told that I would suffer auto-x by my Priest if I attended (some time ago). How that could be when for how many hundreds of years that Mass was said, I don't know. (During the time of forcing Catholics to go to the new as many Catholics left the church over it all.) But didn't go and there are none around me now. Yes I miss it. The new Mass has it's place but in no way IMO can compare. Very busy IMO. Ahhh well, the good ole days...

 

[Colin]

How do most Catholics feel about the new order of mass?

Well I was at the Eucharist this morning , "new" order at 8a.m.

It was awesome . The greatest part of the week .

 

[AMDG]

What kind of changes are they making to the Novus Ordo?

Well there will be a more faithful translation from the texts. And I understand (but still don't hold my breath in some of the parishes) Latin (still the universal language of the Church--Vatican II *never* changed that!) will sometimes be heard. (Now if only we could get rid of the guitars, fiddles, bongo drums, snare drums, muracchas--or however you spell it, tamborines,...)

Today, the visiting priest said in the homily that each day we should consider what God is asking us to do. Well, I suppose I am being asked to "suffer through this".

The Divine Liturgy, like the Tridentine Mass, is beautiful--very uplifting--reminds us that we are children of God and the Liturgy is heaven on earth, shared with many who have gone before. You might attend one. And don't think that one is only relegated to the Orthodox, there are the Eastern rites of the Catholic Church.

And don't be put off by following along in a missal--that's considered active participation too and as I've experienced, it's done in most Novus Ordo Masses as well--they even provide misalettes to do so. The misalettes are just totally in English instead of the Latin/English that the old missals had. The older missals had the rubrics or instructions in red on what to do as well.

 

[Colin]

The Eucharist is beautiful in whatever rite or language when it is celebrated beautifully .

My preference is for the beautiful Eucharist celebrated in own language as reformed by the command and in accordance with the teachings of the 21st Ecumenical Council .

 

[WarriorAngel]

I just got back from attending my first (though probably also last) mass with my brother and his fiance. I had never attended one before, and thought I should go to one at least once so I would have had some (though limited) experience with Catholic worship.

It was in the new order of the mass after Vatican II. What I saw (being Orthodox) brought both some comforting elements, but also had some quite shocking elements.

What I want to ask now, without any intended malice or intent to argue/debate, is... How do most Catholics feel about the new order of mass?

(again, not asking this out of any malice or underlying intention to troll, I'm genuinely curious)

My brain is slow - i was told the Novus Ordo could not work like the Tridentine.

That is what confuses me, since i like the language being in my own tongue. But i would certainly appreciate the way it has been done for many years prior.

Note: Many years does not translate to only or original.


I like the fact we could all kneel for the Eucharist and receive on tongue only.
I would love to see the old Mass incorporated into our own tongues.

But for some reason it cannot be done, of which i just dont get.
So whatever Mass is said or done, it boils down to receiving the word of God and the Eucharist [aka Word]

Its still Our Lord in the Mass. I let the knowledgeable sort the rest out.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Well there will be a more faithful translation from the texts. And I understand (but still don't hold my breath in some of the parishes) Latin (still the universal language of the Church--Vatican II *never* changed that!) will sometimes be heard. (Now if only we could get rid of the guitars, fiddles, bongo drums, snare drums, muracchas--or however you spell it, tamborines,...)

Today, the visiting priest said in the homily that each day we should consider what God is asking us to do. Well, I suppose I am being asked to "suffer through this".

The Divine Liturgy, like the Tridentine Mass, is beautiful--very uplifting--reminds us that we are children of God and the Liturgy is heaven on earth, shared with many who have gone before. You might attend one. And don't think that one is only relegated to the Orthodox, there are the Eastern rites of the Catholic Church.

And don't be put off by following along in a missal--that's considered active participation too and as I've experienced, it's done in most Novus Ordo Masses as well--they even provide misalettes to do so. The misalettes are just totally in English instead of the Latin/English that the old missals had. The older missals had the rubrics or instructions in red on what to do as well.

No instruments except the organ in our parish.

 

[Fantine]

I miss the Tridentine Mass. Beautiful, solume, awe inspiring, respectful max. Given time to pray. The beauty draws me in to the infinite idea of the beauty of God.

But do you not think that your response is due to your image of God--distant, remote, detached, perhaps?--and that others who have a different image of God might feel separated?

I once attended a workshop that described three kinds of prayer: 1) Vertical--God's up in the sky, we're down on the ground; 2) Horizontal--praying in community, experiencing God through the community; 3) Internal--looking for God's presence which resides in each of us.

The TLM is the template for vertical prayer, whereas what is commonly called the "Novus Ordo" around here is more horizontally centered. And if you are someone whose primary orientation towards prayer is vertical, then naturally you will feel closer to God through the TLM.

If, however, you are someone whose approach to prayer is generally more horizontal or internal, then what you refer to as the Novus Ordo would bring you closer to God.

I am definitely a horizontal prayer/internal prayer type of person. When I am at Mass, I try to intuitively sense the collective faith of the congregation (easier in a small rural church with a very holy priest like mine) and feel our collective energy connecting with God. To me it's almost like a trampoline--I can feel my prayers bouncing right up to him, magnified by our joint faith.

I feel the same way when I have prayed the Liturgy of the Hours in monasteries and abbeys.

As a child experiencing the TLM, peering down from the choir loft at the ladies with the babushkas with their rosaries, not paying much attention to the miracle taking place, I never felt that way.

 

[WarriorAngel]

AS for my thoughts on Latin vs vernicular...

If Christ wanted only one language spoke - The Holy Spirit would not have given the Apostles the gift on Pentecost for all to hear in the language they understood.

Some say Hebrew is God's language [See Jews]
Some say Aramaic is His language [See the language of the Lord]
Some say Greek, because the Gospel and NT manuscripts.

I say all languages are from God [see tower of Babel]
And He knows all the languages. And all tongues profess the same.

Just because we belong to the Latin Rite - the Rite of the Pope - does not mean all speak Latin.

In fact in a city close to here, the Greek Orthodox have the Liturgy in English.
I dont see why the language is a factor at all.

I am American, i speak American, I understand it and have no capacity to learn a new language.
So i prefer my tongue when i am at Mass. I can concentrate on what is being said. It helps me reflect.

IF I had to listen to Latin i would either be frustrated or lost and probably feel inadequate.
IS Latin beautiful?
Its the original to the Romantic Languages - so it has to be beautiful.

I wouldnt mind attending such a Mass. But overall, it would not be the end all to my existence.
I love Mass. I want to be at Mass. To me, being where the Lord is - and receiving HIM means more to me than anything...so nothing will add to my experence and i need nothing more to chase after that certain HOLY feel when He is all i need.

The Catholic Mass, sans skipping the prayers and hurrying it up - is still beautiful.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I think the Novus Ordo, reverently celebrated in Latin, is a beautiful liturgy. The current ICEL translation in English has a lot to be desired but that will be remedied this Advent.

I wish the Bible also would be directly translated to English - so many misunderstandings could be remedied.

Today our priest told us in his last parish a 10th grader took offense to Christ calling the pagan a dog.
He said if it helps, the actual translation is 'puppies' from Greek. So it wasnt so insulting as the translation makes it seem.

And i noticed MOST new Bible only churches are created in England and America where the translations are available in English.

 

[Tigg]

But do you not think that your response is due to your image of God--distant, remote, detached, perhaps?--and that others who have a different image of God might feel separated?

I once attended a workshop that described three kinds of prayer: 1) Vertical--God's up in the sky, we're down on the ground; 2) Horizontal--praying in community, experiencing God through the community; 3) Internal--looking for God's presence which resides in each of us.

The TLM is the template for vertical prayer, whereas what is commonly called the "Novus Ordo" around here is more horizontally centered. And if you are someone whose primary orientation towards prayer is vertical, then naturally you will feel closer to God through the TLM.

If, however, you are someone whose approach to prayer is generally more horizontal or internal, then what you refer to as the Novus Ordo would bring you closer to God.

I am definitely a horizontal prayer/internal prayer type of person. When I am at Mass, I try to intuitively sense the collective faith of the congregation (easier in a small rural church with a very holy priest like mine) and feel our collective energy connecting with God. To me it's almost like a trampoline--I can feel my prayers bouncing right up to him, magnified by our joint faith.

I feel the same way when I have prayed the Liturgy of the Hours in monasteries and abbeys.

As a child experiencing the TLM, peering down from the choir loft at the ladies with the babushkas with their rosaries, not paying much attention to the miracle taking place, I never felt that way.

No for God is closer than my own heart beat. At other times, I wonder where He is and cry out I can't feel/sense Your presence. I definitely do not put down anyone who likes either Mass more than the other. I gave my opinion. The most awesome thing in either Mass is God, Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. All else is secondary really. God bless

 

[Tigg]

I love any Mass where the Eucharist is made available to me, everything else is just details. That said, I prefer the TLM over the NO. I am thankful that both are available to us and that we are free to choose the Mass that we prefer.

 

[Colin]

In the TLM, the priest says the Mass in Latin, which few of the people understand, and many can barely hear at times. The altar servers mimic the responses as they been trained to memorize by rote.

I was an altar server for many years prior to the Second Vatican Council .

The priest and servers were well away from those in the pews .

Those in the pews didn't hear what was going on , which was so often a mumbled , muttering , hasty recitation of words in gabbled Latin .

No wonder the Holy Spirit inspired the Council Fathers to institute reform of that which was often verging on the sacrilegious .

 

[isshinwhat]

Yes it was beautiful to watch.

However, Mass isn't about watching a beautiful ritual.


Jim

You are right, but it is about worshiping through beautiful Liturgy the Lord whom we adore, and being drawn in together through that beauty towards the magnificence of God. We are creatures who were created to worship God with our whole selves, senses included. I've never heard anyone say that the beauty of the Liturgy distracted them from God.

I am wearied to death with the life I lead. The business of the Congress is tedious beyond expression…

This day I went to Dr. Allison’s meeting in the forenoon, and hear the Dr.; a good discourse upon the Lord’s supper. . . . This is a Presbyterian meeting. I confess I am not fond of Presbyterian meetings in this town. . . . And I must confess that the Episcopal Church is quite agreeable to my taste as the Presbyterian. They are both slaves to the domination of the priesthood. I like the Congregational way best, next to that Independent.

This afternoon, led by curiosity and good company, I strolled away to mother church, or rather grandmother church. I mean the Romish chapel. I heard a good, short moral essay upon the duty of parents to their children, founded in justice and charity, to take care of their interests, temporal and spiritual. This afternoon’s entertainment was to me most awful and affecting; the poor wretches fingering their beads, chanting Latin, not a word of which they understood; their pater nosters and ave Marias; their holy water; their crossing themselves perpetually; their bowing to the name of Jesus, whenever they hear it; their bowings, kneelings and genuflections before the altar. The dress of the priest was rich white lace. His pulpit was velvet and gold. The altar-piece was very rich, little images and crucifixes about; wax candles lighted up. But how shall I describe the picture of our Savior in a frame of marble over the altar, at full length, upon the cross in the agonies, and the blood dropping and streaming from his wounds! The music, consisting of an organ and a choir of singers, went all the afternoon except sermon time, and the assembly chanted most sweetly and exquisitely.

Here is everything which can lay hold of the eye, ear, and imagination–everything which can charm and bewitch the simple and ignorant. I wonder how Luther ever broke the spell. Adieu.

John Adams to his wife, Abagail - October 9, 1774

I guess I am just pleased to worship the Lord in my simple ignorance...

 

[isshinwhat]

I was an altar server for many years prior to the Second Vatican Council .

The priest and servers were well away from those in the pews .

Those in the pews didn't hear what was going on , which was so often a mumbled , muttering , hasty recitation of words in gabbled Latin .

No wonder the Holy Spirit inspired the Council Fathers to institute reform of that which was often verging on the sacrilegious .

Lord have mercy... The holy Mass said according to the rubrics does not approach sacrilege. You have no idea what was in the hearts of the hundreds of millions of Catholics who worshiped in the Mass you so carelessly profane. The only sacrilege is the mass abandonment of the Catholic Faith in the past 50 years. Where is the catechesis, where is the Catholic Culture that supports the faith and sense of community, why do so few go to Confession, where is the belief in the Real Presence, and why have so many stopped going to Mass? For a group of ignoramuses who ignorantly chanted about nothing, they sure lived a lively faith... But I have hope, and I see in my peers and in the parishes I have been blessed to be a part of a lively sense of faith, community, tradition, love of liturgy, a responsibility to help the poor, and a love of family and children - all for love of Jesus Christ. Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam!

 

[isshinwhat]

AS for my thoughts on Latin vs vernicular...

I see the need to retain the use of Latin in parts of the Mass, but I do see the value of the vernacular, as well. I believe the future will see a missal which will keep its elements in their proper balance at some point. I pray I live to see it, but I tend to doubt it. The Orthodox as a whole have done a good job of balancing the use of liturgical languages and the vernacular, but they have had parishes split due to the issue. My hometown and the town I currently reside in have both had Greek parishes split, and in both cases the Antiochian Archdiocese has started mission parishes to accommodate those with an affinity for the vernacular.