Blowing on Knots - Questions to Muslims.

[Drunk On Love]

I could see where it (blowing on kinots) could create a psychosomatic effect in people if they knew someone was trying to curse them. As to any occult power it would have beyond that I'm really no expert in that field.

As for possession that isn't unique to Islam. Maybe you should complain about Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc... as well? You seem to have a one track mind regarding Islam like it's your special subject though so I doubt that will happen.

 

[AskTheFamily]

I could see where it (blowing on kinots) could create a psychosomatic effect in people if they knew someone was trying to curse them.

This is only if they believe the curse is real, so they should seek refuge from their own superstitions. Not people doing something that has no effect in itself.

As to any occult power it would have beyond that I'm really no expert in that field.

This is the issue - magic is suppose to be some big hidden art. We don't know about it, but you know what, there is no such thing in the world.

What's the point of fearing the act of blowing on knots. It's an irrational belief.

There is no rational explanation as to why God would grant evil power to a knot being blown upon.

People were superstitious. They also believe the envying eye can harm someone.

The evil eye is about the worse belief you can have. Someone envies you - owe you should be scared -. Come on man.

This stuff is not healthy.

 

[AskTheFamily]

You seem to have a one track mind regarding Islam like it's your special subject though so I doubt that will happen.

Islam is the religion I believed for up until recently. The issues I have with Quran keeps growing, and it's about 15-20 issues now. I want to put my concerns on sites (I put it on Islamic Forums as well) and get responses.

For a long time, I felt I was sure about Islam. I also feel like I should discuss all my reasoning that I don't believe anymore, because, when you discuss things, you can know how strong or weak an argument is.

Most of my posts on this forum has been in defense of Islam. Try not to be judgmental.

I also haven't told my family or anyone that knows me. I feel like I should have discussed all the reasons before I present it to them.

I'm also going to probably write it all on word, and print it out, so that I don't have to discuss it, but just present it to my parents. However, I want to have argument, counter argument, argument format, so I need discussion for that as well.

 

[Rationalt]

Or Maybe you could work to do your part instead of complaining about Muslims? Your attacks have basically no chance of "reforming" Islam but you can reform yourself. That's actually within your power. Try leading by example.

I am pointing out the Hate and absurdity in Islam.Please Don't twist my words.

 

[Rationalt]

I also feel like I should discuss all my reasoning that I don't believe anymore, because, when you discuss things, you can know how strong or weak an argument is.

 

[Drunk On Love]

Islam is the religion I believed for up until recently. The issues I have with Quran keeps growing, and it's about 15-20 issues now. I want to put my concerns on sites (I put it on Islamic Forums as well) and get responses.

I was directing that to RationalT. He isn't a Muslims yet it's his favorite subject and pretty much all he ever posts about here. His purpose here is to complain about Islam over and over and over and hope that he can get a few people to agree with him. Apparently he has no positive beliefs of his own that he wishes to advance it's all about being negative and attacking the Islamic boogie man.

 

[Drunk On Love]

I am pointing out the Hate and absurdity in Islam.Please Don't twist my words.

Kind of how anti-semites don't hate Jews and Judaism they are "really" just trying to point out the hate and absurdity of the Torah, Talmud, etc... so people can properly combat the Jewish problem? I'm not buying it. When people have a one track mind and all their posts are attacking another religion it becomes obvious that something is wrong. It's not just a detached desire to look objectively at another religion.

 

[SanFrank]

"By 2030 the global population is set to reach over 8 billion and 26.4% of that population will be Muslim.

There is great comfort in knowing you are not alone, isn't there? But great and wide is the path that leads to destruction. Narrow is the path to salvation and few are they that find it.

I reached an objective with you. I can't proceed further unless you reject islam or turn to Christ.

 

[Drunk On Love]

I reached an objective with you. I can't proceed further unless you reject islam or turn to Christ.

Jesus likes me being a Muslim.

 

[Rationalt]

Kind of how anti-semites don't hate Jews and Judaism they are "really" just trying to point out the hate and absurdity of the Torah, Talmud, etc... so people can properly combat the Jewish problem?

I don't see a Jewish problem i.e. Jews quoting Talmud before Bombing civilians.So, i have little incentive to look deeply in to Torah.But, there are many others who made several thousand posts on this forums and i have no problem with them(The critiques) one way or the other.

I'm not buying it.

Me neither.

When people have a one track mind and all their posts are attacking another religion it becomes obvious that something is wrong. It's not just a detached desire to look objectively at another religion.

I don't have a detached desire in criticizing Islam.I have a stake in countering muslim beliefs for valid reasons .

 

[PHenry42]

Anyone want to explain how a knot being blown on can have power?

It doesn't.

That it's forbidden to try out magic does in no way imply that magic would actually have to work. There's no inconsistency in forbidding it even if we postulate that it doesn't work.

Islam also holds that praying to idols "doesn't work", but still it's forbidden to do so.

The connection you make between some practice being forbidden and that practice having to have actual power is an arbitrary one, not following logically in any way.

 

[AskTheFamily]

So why does Quran tell us to seek refuge from it, if it has no power?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

It doesn't.

That it's forbidden to try out magic does in no way imply that magic would actually have to work. There's no inconsistency in forbidding it even if we postulate that it doesn't work.

Islam also holds that praying to idols "doesn't work", but still it's forbidden to do so.

The connection you make between some practice being forbidden and that practice having to have actual power is an arbitrary one, not following logically in any way.

Why forbid a practice if it has no effect, anyway? Wouldn't it be much more prudent to just tell people that it's ineffective, and have that ineffectiveness be the "punishment" for those who'd waste their time with it?

And why would a transcendent being be offended if it's called by different names, or represented by different statues? These effigies might not look like the actual deity at all, and thus be misleading - so yes, we might possibly expect a god to inform us that these images are counterproductive and more than a little bit off.
But personal indignation? That'd require a degree of pettiness and neurotic self-centredness that I would not expect from a genuinely wise and insightful being.

 

[Drunk On Love]

I don't think it should be understood in an overly anthropomorphic sense as if God outlawed idols because the presence of them causes Him to feel a uncomfortable emotional state. That's not what the wrath of God is. It is a reality we experience but not an actual emotion felt by God. The wrath of God is like getting burned when you stick your hand in a fire. God isn't a big person in the sky. In fact I think it was precisely to combat over anthropomorphism and to stress the transcendence of God that Islam has such a strong iconoclastic nature.

That'd require a degree of pettiness and neurotic self-centredness that I would not expect from a genuinely wise and insightful being.

It wasn't intended to make God feel better. Such commands were given to man as a mercy to him. They are useful manners of thinking about things. It's much like the negative theology of the Christians or Neo-Platonists or like the neti neti of the Hindus. To help people transcend all concepts and images of God because God is greater.

 

[AskTheFamily]

Stay on topic people.

 

[Drunk On Love]

Why forbid a practice if it has no effect, anyway? Wouldn't it be much more prudent to just tell people that it's ineffective, and have that ineffectiveness be the "punishment" for those who'd waste their time with it?

If it had no occult effect on the target and it was prohibited I would assume that would be because the intention behind it is evil and it causes people to nurse the grudge against the target.

 

[PHenry42]

So why does Quran tell us to seek refuge from it, if it has no power?

What do you mean by seeking refuge here, and which ayats are you thinking about specifically?

 

[AskTheFamily]

Suratal Falaq.

 

[PHenry42]

Surah and verse number? I'm not good at connecting names to numbers.

 

[PHenry42]

Why forbid a practice if it has no effect, anyway? Wouldn't it be much more prudent to just tell people that it's ineffective, and have that ineffectiveness be the "punishment" for those who'd waste their time with it?

Idk, maybe God doesn't approve of us seeking supernatural help from any other source than him? Viewed in that sense, trying to work magic would be a kind of polytheism in itself. Call it trying to subvert God's authority.

And why would a transcendent being be offended if it's called by different names, or represented by different statues? These effigies might not look like the actual deity at all, and thus be misleading - so yes, we might possibly expect a god to inform us that these images are counterproductive and more than a little bit off.
But personal indignation? That'd require a degree of pettiness and neurotic self-centredness that I would not expect from a genuinely wise and insightful being.

I think you presume much if you think you can deduce what an omnipotent, omniscient deity with certain properties would "think".