legalism

[YosemiteSam]

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Notice the very first thing in the list is Adultery. I highlighted some other wordsthat would make some great word studies.

I've also been saying for awhile incidence isn't obedience. The real issue here is the refusal to accept the NC. The NC covenant doesn't authorized sin. I didn't include v 13 above - 13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. This means don't practice sin.

Good! So now how do you know what sin is?

 

[from scratch]

As usual you missed the point. and I did not point out that the 10 were a schoolmaster. That was your imagination tricking you again. The point is that paul taught that the true christian must obey god and keep his commandments...the same that christ did! Cor 9.17 circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of god. Paul never taught true christians not to obey gods spiritual law (the 10), for that would be in the spirit of the anti-christ.

If you say so.But I read the bible much differently. I read paul saying not under the law twice in Rom 6. The law died in 7. The law ended by Jesus Christ in 10. And we're to throw it out in Gal 4:30. There is no conflict with this and what Jesus taught. Paul no where taught obligation to the law infact he said to make a choice between the law and grace, one can't have both - one voids the other - Gal 5:4.

 

[from scratch]

Good! So now how do you know what sin is?

By the Holy Spirit. To get a better grip on the subject consider theSermon on the Mount and the concepts Jesus taught there. Jesus didn't cover every law and its meaning. Nor did He teach obligation to the law. Jesus clearly taught something different in saying, but I say...

 

[YosemiteSam]

If you say so.But I read the bible much differently. I read paul saying not under the law twice in Rom 6. The law died in 7. The law ended by Jesus Christ in 10. And we're to throw it out in Gal 4:30. There is no conflict with this and what Jesus taught. Paul no where taught obligation to the law infact he said to make a choice between the law and grace, one can't have both - one voids the other - Gal 5:4.

A direct contradiction of Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: Yea, we establish the law"

 

[YosemiteSam]

By the Holy Spirit. To get a better grip on the subject consider theSermon on the Mount and the concepts Jesus taught there. Jesus didn't cover every law and its meaning. Nor did He teach obligation to the law. Jesus clearly taught something different in saying, but I say...

He taught to do the will of the father. Matt 12:50 "For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Jesus only did (that includes teach) the Fathers will. Why do you call me good, for there is none good but God.

jn 10 32 John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

Anything that Christ did was in accordance to the Fathers will.

 

[YosemiteSam]

By the Holy Spirit. To get a better grip on the subject consider theSermon on the Mount and the concepts Jesus taught there. Jesus didn't cover every law and its meaning. Nor did He teach obligation to the law. Jesus clearly taught something different in saying, but I say...

The Holy Spirit...no by the law...the new testament even states this fact.

Rom 7.7 Paul speaking, "Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin.... continue, "For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet..."

 

[YosemiteSam]

Here is something interesting....

1 Tim 1.8 "But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man..."

Rom 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."

 

[from scratch]

A direct contradiction of Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: Yea, we establish the law"

Nope Paul agrees with himself. Me thinks you has a problem with establish as used. If I asked for an explanation it would probably be on deaf ears so I won't ask. Who knows I might get lucky.

 

[from scratch]

He taught to do the will of the father. Matt 12:50 "For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Jesus only did (that includes teach) the Fathers will. Why do you call me good, for there is none good but God.

jn 10 32 John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

Anything that Christ did was in accordance to the Fathers will.

True but what exactly is the will of the Father for Christians?

Absolutely true again. But then I'm not sure what you'recalling many good works. Could be keeping the law or maybe healing people. Which of the good works that Jesus did are you doing since we are to follow Jesus in behavior?

 

[from scratch]

The Holy Spirit...no by the law...the new testament even states this fact.

Rom 7.7 Paul speaking, "Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin.... continue, "For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet..."

Seeing that sin was in the world before the law how did they know?

I still say by the Holy Spirit - Gal 5:18. You should have it memorized by now.

 

[from scratch]

Here is something interesting....

1 Tim 1.8 "But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man..."

Rom 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."

In Adam In the new man raised from the dead - Romans 6.

And no way cause that mans is dead and is raised to life and righteounss. The law doesn't apply any longer I Tim 1:9-10.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Seeing that sin was in the world before the law how did they know?

I still say by the Holy Spirit - Gal 5:18. You should have it memorized by now.

Paul here is speaking of himself...He wasn't around in the time of Adam and Eve...

 

[YosemiteSam]

In Adam In the new man raised from the dean no way - Romans 6.

I guess you meant "dead"... so? Still flesh! Just as Paul struggled with the flesh. He was already "raised from the dead."

 

[YosemiteSam]

True but what exactly is the will of the Father for Christians?

Absolutely true again. But then I'm not sure what you'recalling many good works. Could be keeping the law or maybe healing people. Which of the good works that Jesus did are you doing since we are to follow Jesus in behavior?

Jesus didn't change the law, he magnified the law...made it more binding...

How about keeping God's commandments! That is works! That is something one must do! Works is Doing!

Js 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

js 2:18 "But someone may say, "you have faith and I have works, show me your faith with the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

Faith is demonstrated by what we DO!

Our works, obeying God's commandments don't earn us salvation. But we still have to obey them. The law cannot wash, cleanse, justify or forgive...the law cannot give eternal life. the purpose of the law is to tell us what sin is. Only God's mercy or grace can save us.

Look at Eph 2:8 " For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourself, it is the gift of God."

It was the works of Abraham's faith that he obeyed God. Abraham kept God's commandments just as Christ and all the apostles did. It was the fact that Abraham believed (faith) God, and it was accounted (not earned) to him for righteousness.

 

[YosemiteSam]

True but what exactly is the will of the Father for Christians?

Absolutely true again. But then I'm not sure what you'recalling many good works. Could be keeping the law or maybe healing people. Which of the good works that Jesus did are you doing since we are to follow Jesus in behavior?

If we are follow Jesus' behavior we would have to be obeying the law just as He did.

 

[Hentenza]

Jesus didn't change the law, he magnified the law...made it more binding...

How about keeping God's commandments! That is works! That is something one must do! Works is Doing!

Js 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

js 2:18 "But someone may say, "you have faith and I have works, show me your faith with the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

Faith is demonstrated by what we DO!

Our works, obeying God's commandments don't earn us salvation. But we still have to obey them. The law cannot wash, cleanse, justify or forgive...the law cannot give eternal life. the purpose of the law is to tell us what sin is. Only God's mercy or grace can save us.

Look at Eph 2:8 " For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourself, it is the gift of God."

It was the works of Abraham's faith that he obeyed God. Abraham kept God's commandments just as Christ and all the apostles did. It was the fact that Abraham believed (faith) God, and it was accounted (not earned) to him for righteousness.

So which parts of the law of Moses do you obey?

 

[from scratch]

Paul here is speaking of himself...He wasn't around in the time of Adam and Eve...

I'm going for the principle truth here and not Paul's experience with the flesh which we all have. Chapters 7 and 12.

 

[from scratch]

I guess you meant "dead"... so? Still flesh! Just as Paul struggled with the flesh. He was already "raised from the dead."

OK I corrected the typo and added some to the post if you would like to see the difference.

Paul talks about this in chapter 12 about th living sacrifice. The problem is the flesh just hate being on the altar well any altar.

 

[from scratch]

If we are follow Jesus' behavior we would have to be obeying the law just as He did.

Do you?

Let's see -

• attend the synsgogue with jews weekly on the sabbath figured on the new moon calendar - not the Gregorian
• Keep the new moon sabbath
• go to the Temple in Jerusalem 3 times a year

Now we could get into the actual keeping of the sabbath according to the Bible. Do you

• use electricity on the sabbath
• use water on the sabbath
• ride in a vehicle on the sabbath

The first 2 are doing business and requiring others to work for you which is forbidden. The last one is forbidden because it is you beast of burden that is required to rest according to Ex 20:8-11

I certian can elaborate more if you wish. All the above has been done over and over here in the forum. I can probably manage a c&p.

 

[from scratch]

If we are follow Jesus' behavior we would have to be obeying the law just as He did.

I'm rather curious if you have washed any bodies feet dressed as a servant - that would be naked, no band aids either they didn't have them then. Were you baptised naked in a river in front of a mixed crowd of both sexes, believers and unbelievers? How much trouble do you wish to shoot for?

Oh I could put in the easy one like healing someone, walking on water or how about fasting for 40 days. Ever sit and watch who was putting how much into the offering plate/recepticale? What about telling the wind to stop blowing. Now there is a real winner in tornado season.