How some creationists pushed me away from christianity

[Catherineanne]

No one chooses to go to hell. God simply sends people to hell who are not Obedient. If God does not do everything in his power to help everyone to get into heaven then he is not all loving. If he exists he knows exactly what would convince me that it is so.

The cards are in his hands.

I am afraid the evidence is against you on this one. We all have free will, and those who go to hell do so of their own free will.

NOBODY goes to hell by the will of God, except as I said above, as an act of mercy on his part to prevent his holiness from destroying them along with the evil they commit.

 

[Catherineanne]

That's like saying the mafia doesn't kill people, people kill themselves.

No it isn't.

God acts ONLY out of love, mercy and compassion. He has no other motivation, and acts for no other reason.

If he does anything at all, it is prompted by love.

I suspect the same cannot be said of any organised crime system, anywhere.

 

[MoonLancer]

I am afraid the evidence is against you on this one. We all have free will, and those who go to hell do so of their own free will.

NOBODY goes to hell by the will of God, except as I said above, as an act of mercy on his part to prevent his holiness from destroying them along with the evil they commit.

i updated my post.

But you use the word Evidence is a funny way when evidence cant even show an existence of God. But the god your describing is not all powerful and all loving.

Its easy to love something that is obedient its hard to love something thats not. ether god cant save everyone or he wont. your choice.

 

[Oncedeceived]

You have two choices.

A God is always the agent of our salvation, which is standard orthodox belief for pretty well the whole of Christendom. Which in turn is pretty good going, considering the amount of disagreement that there is around. God does not 'pick and choose' as if we are on some kind of buffet. God calls those he chooses to call, at the time he chooses to call them, and his voice does not go unanswered.

I can't disagree with any of this.

As for why some people are called early in life, and others later, well that one is covered by the parable of the vineyard; sometimes it just happens that way.

Very true.
B Man is capable of effecting his own salvation, which is heresy from the high to the low churches. Aka works theology.

Up to you, really. [/quote]

 

[underheaven]

Until or if I ever know a god, I will not capitalize the word as a proper noun.

It's a shame my salvation rests on whether I have capitalized a word or not.

Open palm, insert face.

I have just noticed that you are a homosexual,and atheist.
Most homosexuals are atheists.Those who are religious will not be following in
most cases the One True God,but a pagan one.
I understand why God cannot illuminate you,it may be too late.
You have rejected Him in the past ,and broken his laws of Love.
If you wish to be saved you will have to give up everything,
and follow his Way or it is the descent into Hell for you.
I am of the serious opinion that homosexuality is a punishment for
All who abuse love, and turn their backs on God .
THe fact that you have tried will be in your favour,but is not enough.

 

[Catherineanne]

As a Christian I don't need to believe I evolved from ape, and neither did the biblical authors. Evolution theory is not relevant to the Christian's salvation and is therefore meaningless in that regard.

Oooh, goody. I get to say one of my favourites.

Some people certainly evolved from a common ape-like ancestor.

Other people didn't.

 

[Non sequitur]

No it isn't.

The mafia puts the shopkeeper in a situation where he has to pay them for "protection", while they have the discretion to make them pay or not, or else bad things will happen to them.

But the mafia then says, "It's ok if you don't want to pay us, it's your choice!"

It's pretty much exactly that.

 

[Non sequitur]

I have just noticed that you are a homosexual,and atheist.
Most homosexuals are atheists.Those who are religious will not be following in
most cases the One True God,but a pagan one.
I understand why God cannot illuminate you,it may be too late.
You have rejected Him in the past ,and broken his laws of Love.
If you wish to be saved you will have to give up everything,
and follow his Way or it is the descent into Hell for you.
I am of the serious opinion that homosexuality is a punishment for
All who abuse love, and turn their backs on God .
THe fact that you have tried will be in your favour,but is not enough.

Wow.

What a kind thing for your loving god to do to someone, make them gay.

 

[Catherineanne]

Oh, and also, "God, please make me straight."

I am sorry, darling, that one is simply not going to happen, and never was.

How about; 'Thank you, Lord, that I am perfectly and wonderfully made.'

No wonder things got so confused.

I prayed for many years at one time, for the Lord to mend my marriage, and to help my h overcome his alcohol addiction. Nothing. Eventually I realised that there is no good praying against God's will, and I learned instead to use, 'Thy will be done.' Then I kicked the ex out and divorced him, and there was God, saying, 'It took you long enough, but at least you got there in the end.'

 

[Catherineanne]

Until or if I ever know a god, I will not capitalize the word as a proper noun.

It's a shame my salvation rests on whether I have capitalized a word or not.

Open palm, insert face.

Rest assured, your salvation depends on no such thing. God doesn't mind either way; capital letters are totally immaterial to him.

 

[Catherineanne]

But I'm not convinced there is even an "office", much less an entity that fills that position. Therefore, little g's.

Although it is your choice how you use language, you must realise that your variant is non standard, and could potentially lead to confusion. The capitalised form is used in contradistinction to the non capitalised form to indicate the Judeo Christian Creator God, rather than just any old god who happens to be passing.

However, for the purposes of this thread it hardly matters; I think we know who you are talking about.

 

[Catherineanne]

I respect the office of the President of the United States because it obviously exists.

Believing in human institutions is not about existence but credibility. A person can know full well that there is a monarchy in the UK, for example, without believing in it. Therefore the parallel with God really does not apply.

The only relevent parallel in our faith that I can think of is in relation to Christ and Satan. Satan knows full well that Christ exists, but does not believe in him as the Son of God.

 

[Catherineanne]

Are there any independently verifiable reports that indicate that this exists, and also that it was created by and for an entity who also created the universe as we know it?

That is such a silly question. Of course there are independently verifiable reports, for those who accept them, but if you choose not to believe them, or the evidence they present, then what is the point of asking who they are?

You may just as well ask, is there anyone you can present to me, who I will believe. The answer is always going to be no, until you choose to make it yes.

I could line up ten thousand witnesses, and you would disregard them all.

 

[Non sequitur]

Although it is your choice how you use language, you must realise that your variant is non standard, and could potentially lead to confusion. The capitalised form is used in contradistinction to the non capitalised form to indicate the Judeo Christian Creator God, rather than just any old god who happens to be passing.

However, for the purposes of this thread it hardly matters; I think we know who you are talking about.

Personally, I find myself a little leery about the gods who just randomly pass by.

It's something about their eyes, but I just can't put my finger on it...

 

[British Bulldog]

Believing in human institutions is not about existence but credibility. A person can know full well that there is a monarchy in the UK, for example, without believing in it. Therefore the parallel with God really does not apply.

The only relevent parallel in our faith that I can think of is in relation to Christ and Satan. Satan knows full well that Christ exists, but does not believe in him as the Son of God.

That sounds interesting. How come Satan doesn't know what all Christians know? And how can he get it wrong? Do we know if he's still got it wrong? Doesn't Satan have a good intelligence agency? As you're working with a 2000 year old text it seems entirely probable that your information is a little out of date. Things may have moved on a bit in Satanland.

 

[underheaven]

You have a right to believe whatever you want to believe, and I respect that. I will not acquiesce to rules from a deity I do not believe exists. If you find that offensive, frankly, that's too bad.

At least you respect their right.
I am a Christian/Catholic /Celt.
I have a serious problem with 'bible' Christians,where it is their main,
andoften only source to 'know God,and I think many of them who allow them selves
to hate those who question will back fire on some of them.

I have met too many young people who have been turned away from God
by ones who call themselves Christians.
The parable in the old testament about Abraham and Isaac is about Faith in God Himself .You
have to have faith in Him even when the evidence seems against it in your own mind.
I left the church because it abandoned my curious mind ,my right to ask questions.It was
not that they did not know the answers,but that their attitude was all wrong .If they
had been more searching I would not have left ,but continued the journey within the church.
This aspect of Christianity shows a complete ignorance of God ,and how
He works in the world.
Certainly in the early church tight control over heresy was neccessary
but as the enlightenment came,and so study of the world that God created was a
stage in our life within a created universe.
Study of science will never bring absolute truth ,but those who have
been tested and tried by Him will get it when they seek it.
This time of 'trial' is to force those who bible' thump to face the task of
rational study.
And people like you to let go of the rational and give in to Love[not sex]
and light without questioning.

 

[Catherineanne]

RareLight

3. the bible and the geological record is in excellent agreement if one has an old earth view of the Genesis creation account. (search google for "rareuniverse timeline" for more info)

A bit of a weasel this one. The geological record may be ok, but the rest of creation in Genesis is a bit out, to say the least.

Take a look. Even people who think the earth is only 6,000 years old would probably have a job believing that the earth, and the plants on it, predate the sun, moon and stars.

In order, in Genesis we are told that God creates from nothing:

Day One
The heavens
The earth without form and void, covered with water
Light, separated from darkness

Day Two
Firmament/heaven (the bit of sky between the clouds and the sea)

Day Three
Dry land and seas
Vegetation, plants, trees etc

Day Four
The stars, the sun and the moon

Day Five
Creatures in the sea and birds

Day Six
Living creatures on land, including creepy crawlies
Mankind, male and female

Have fun with that one.

​

 

[Catherineanne]

That sounds interesting. How come Satan doesn't know what all Christians know? And how can he get it wrong? Do we know if he's still got it wrong? Doesn't Satan have a good intelligence agency? As you're working with a 2000 year old text it seems entirely probable that your information is a little out of date. Things may have moved on a bit in Satanland.

If Satan believed that Christ was the Son of God he would be a Christian. Needless to say, he isn't.

 

[Catherineanne]

I could find no sources it cited for its claims, either

Early Church Fathers | Christian Classics Ethereal Library

 

[underheaven]

But I'm not convinced there is even an "office", much less an entity that fills that position. Therefore, little g's.

When one has no eyes one cannot 'see' the world around them.

If you have never 'seen' God ,it is because you do not have the 'innereye',
which does not require 'physical eyes',but the eyes of the soul .