Do you have to believe in every word of the NT to be considered Messianic?

[ananda]

'OT' is only used to back up interpretation of the NT. That is not how it should be though.

True! The Torah should be the standard to measure everything against; as I have quoted many times before, forgive me for quoting again : "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isa 8:20)

Also, many would have us "believe" with blind faith, but what does Scripture say? "The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going." (Prov 14:15).

 

[ContraMundum]

In the christian churches you are taught it is done away with.

Which Christian churches are those?

In MY Christian church, we read the whole Bible, cover to cover, systematically in the year (or in some parishes in the three-year cycle). Almost every text is found in an occasional daily liturgy (eg. in parishes with services 365 day a year- almost every portion is read out).

I've yet to see a Messianic organization even come close to that.

I think there is a lot of prejudice going on in this forum against Christianity and Christians. Lots of lies too. Would you agree?

 

[ContraMundum]

True! The Torah should be the standard to measure everything against; as I have quoted many times before, forgive me for quoting again : "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isa 8:20)

Also, many would have us "believe" with blind faith, but what does Scripture say? "The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going." (Prov 14:15).

This is why you people are so confused. The NT does not disagree with any part of the Torah, according to the sensible, orthodox understanding of the Bible. It is considered an illumination of the OT. It fills in the blanks and shows how the Messiah "fulfills" the Law, as our Saviour said.

You people try so hard to work out religion on all on your lonesomes with your internet ministers, and when you can't nut it out you toss out what you choose not to. Meanwhile, the real Christian world has no problems reconciling and happily embracing all the Bible, cover to cover.

At the end of the day, the new independent spirits must just admit that their exegetical method is a complete mess.

 

[visionary]

Which Christian churches are those?

In MY Christian church, we read the whole Bible, cover to cover, systematically in the year (or in some parishes in the three-year cycle). Almost every text is found in an occasional daily liturgy (eg. in parishes with services 365 day a year- almost every portion is read out).

I've yet to see a Messianic organization even come close to that.

I think there is a lot of prejudice going on in this forum against Christianity and Christians. Lots of lies too. Would you agree?

Your church reflects what it reads or what the traditions? Reading is one thing, living what you read is another.. and until I see living proof that the anglican church is drawing closer to the Lord, rather than closer to the world, [read any newspaper on the advancements the anglican church is making].. I would say.. something wrong with this picture.. thus you have no rights to criticize our efforts to live the Words of God.

 

[ContraMundum]

...

 

[ContraMundum]

Your church reflects what it reads or what the traditions? Reading is one thing, living what you read is another.. and until I see living proof that the anglican church is drawing closer to the Lord, rather than closer to the world, [read any newspaper on the advancements the anglican church is making].. I would say.. something wrong with this picture.. thus you have no rights to criticize our efforts to live the Words of God.

OK...NOW all of the sudden you believe everything you read in the paper. Change to suit your argument much?

What a weird thing to say. Imagine if I believed everything I read about your religion? OR if I judged its beliefs on the basis of what gets written here? I would end up thinking that it was the work of the Devil and was inspired by Charles Taize Russell.

Trust me, God is blessing those of us faithful within our communion.

 

[visionary]

...

As a leader of the congregation, what are you doing or telling your congregation about the decisions coming from your higher ups representing your faith?

 

[ContraMundum]

As a leader of the congregation, what are you doing or telling your congregation about the decisions coming from your higher ups representing your faith?

Our "higher ups" are just fine. None of them support the novelties that the media make much ado about. If they slip, we will do what is right. As we have done before.

 

[visionary]

This is why you people are so confused. The NT does not disagree with any part of the Torah, according to the sensible, orthodox understanding of the Bible. It is considered an illumination of the OT. It fills in the blanks and shows how the Messiah "fulfills" the Law, as our Saviour said.

You people try so hard to work out religion on all on your lonesomes with your internet ministers, and when you can't nut it out you toss out what you choose not to. Meanwhile, the real Christian world has no problems reconciling and happily embracing all the Bible, cover to cover.

At the end of the day, the new independent spirits must just admit that their exegetical method is a complete mess.

Sin is violation of Torah. Sin is bondage that leads to death. Torah observance is life. Following our Abba's Commands is liberty. True life, liberty and pursuit of happiness is following our Father's loving instructions.

 

[jcpro]

And Martin Luther translated...As a Jew, do I consider him a "Godly" man? A christian may, but I cannot fully due To TJATL. As far as these other translators, I'm not sure of their backgrounds. So, what constitutes who is "Godly and qualified". Did being fluent in a language qualify one as "Godly" on that basis alone? No favoritism ? Perhaps I should research these things, but, these are just some questions I have--founded or unfounded at this time. Sorry, I brainstorm this way sometimes.

You cannot fully? If you are Jewish, you're familiar with Genesis 12:3. Luther is a spiritual father of Holocaust, so how can he be a "Godly" man? Any decent Jew(religious or not) knows Luther as an enemy of Jews, Judaism and our G-d who condemned him in Genesis.

 

[aniello]

Well, I would believe that the first Jewish converts, in Jerusalem and environs, as well as the disciples, as recorded in the Gospels and Acts 1-9 or 10 or so and then in Acts 21:20 and on, were indeed the very first, first, first Messianic Jews, If they are not what would you call them? Obviously they had no NT in its completeness, if at all, other than probably oral carrying of the message. Therefore these Jews who had come to believe that Yeshua is The Messiah were "Messianic" in the ultimately original sense of the word "Messianic".

Therefore, it should be obvious, even to those that would deny it, that these orignal Messianic Jews were "Messianic" though they had no complete NT, but surely they were "Messianic". So,it follows that you can be "Messianic" without believing "every word of the NT". It's probably more important to BE Messianic than to worry about being considered this, that or whatever, by others.

HOWEVER, the New Testament, as a text, certainly is useful and informative to those learning of His Salvation and how to live His Way, and I think read and re-read to help continuing in The Way, rather than the mere man made machination of a Rome derived church(s) and its contrivances.

I would imagine that some may not like my response. Good!

 

[yedida]

Well, I would believe that the first Jewish converts, in Jerusalem and environs, as well as the disciples, as recorded in the Gospels and Acts 1-9 or 10 or so and then in Acts 21:20 and on, were indeed the very first, first, first Messianic Jews, If they are not what would you call them? Obviously they had no NT in its completeness, if at all, other than probably oral carrying of the message. Therefore these Jews who had come to believe that Yeshua is The Messiah were "Messianic" in the ultimately original sense of the word "Messianic".

Therefore, it should be obvious, even to those that would deny it, that these orignal Messianic Jews were "Messianic" though they had no complete NT, but surely they were "Messianic". So,it follows that you can be "Messianic" without believing "every word of the NT". It's probably more important to BE Messianic than to worry about being considered this, that or whatever, by others.

HOWEVER, the New Testament, as a text, certainly is useful and informative to those learning of His Salvation and how to live His Way, and I think read and re-read to help continuing in The Way, rather than the mere man made machination of a Rome derived church(s) and its contrivances.

I would imagine that some may not like my response. Good!

I, for one, love your response and believe that's it's completely right on.

 

[visionary]

Well, I would believe that the first Jewish converts, in Jerusalem and environs, as well as the disciples, as recorded in the Gospels and Acts 1-9 or 10 or so and then in Acts 21:20 and on, were indeed the very first, first, first Messianic Jews, If they are not what would you call them? Obviously they had no NT in its completeness, if at all, other than probably oral carrying of the message. Therefore these Jews who had come to believe that Yeshua is The Messiah were "Messianic" in the ultimately original sense of the word "Messianic".

Therefore, it should be obvious, even to those that would deny it, that these orignal Messianic Jews were "Messianic" though they had no complete NT, but surely they were "Messianic". So,it follows that you can be "Messianic" without believing "every word of the NT". It's probably more important to BE Messianic than to worry about being considered this, that or whatever, by others.

HOWEVER, the New Testament, as a text, certainly is useful and informative to those learning of His Salvation and how to live His Way, and I think read and re-read to help continuing in The Way, rather than the mere man made machination of a Rome derived church(s) and its contrivances.

I would imagine that some may not like my response. Good!

I agree

 

[ContraMundum]

Sin is violation of Torah. Sin is bondage that leads to death. Torah observance is life. Following our Abba's Commands is liberty. True life, liberty and pursuit of happiness is following our Father's loving instructions.

No kidding. Tell me something we don't all already know.

Must you use throw-away platitudes to avoid answering the points all the time? Your comments actually bear no relevance to my post.

...and what's with the quoting American political phrases?

 

[visionary]

No kidding. Tell me something we don't all already know.

Must you use throw-away platitudes to avoid answering the points all the time? Your comments actually bear no relevance to my post.

...and what's with the quoting American political phrases?

and life does not circle around your posts ... as evident by my post.

 

[ContraMundum]

and life does not circle around your posts ... as evident by my post.

What made you say that? What relevance is it to any point being discussed?

 

[visionary]

I gave a summary...

 

[ContraMundum]

I gave a summary...

OK...I see.

 

[Desert Rose]

Any decent Jew(religious or not) knows Luther as an enemy of Jews

.. and so are jellydonuts, burekas and almost everything wrapped in a pita (you send a Jew ro israel for 3 weeks he comes back being much more of Jew ,at least by 20 pounds


List of enemies also include all islamic world and majority of the rest. As my rabbi says, "wanna be a Jew -cut off foreskin, grow an alligator one on the rest of your body" Cursing, sure, bad . But who hasnt cursed the Jew as of yet? Drive thru Highway 1 in the morning traffic you will see more jews cursing jews in 2 hours then thru all the history!

I dont see why we shouldnt cut that boy Martin some slack. He had a good heart, some anger issues,his brain maybe went a bit off in the later years.
Do you know how you and I gonna be if we live to see our old days?

 

[yedida]

.. and so are jellydonuts, burekas and almost everything wrapped in a pita (you send a Jew ro israel for 3 weeks he comes back being much more of Jew ,at least by 20 pounds


List of enemies also include all islamic world and majority of the rest. As my rabbi says, "wanna be a Jew -cut off foreskin, grow an alligator one on the rest of your body" Cursing, sure, bad . But who hasnt cursed the Jew as of yet? Drive thru Highway 1 in the morning traffic you will see more jews cursing jews in 2 hours then thru all the history!

I dont see why we shouldnt cut that boy Martin some slack. He had a good heart, some anger issues,his brain maybe went a bit off in the later years.
Do you know how you and I gonna be if we live to see our old days?

I have found with age comes mellowing out. That which was so vitally important when I was 25 that I'd argue fret and stress barely receives a raised eyebrow now.
With maturity I have lost the need to be proven right, I don't have to be understood, and I'm not the least bit interested in other's opinion of me (at least not as long as I know I've done nothing to be ashamed of). Maturity (or old age) has its benefits.