Contraception

[CaliforniaJosiah]

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Sex done contraceptively is sex done contraceptively - and obviously makes any method to achieve such contraception.



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[patricius79]

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Sex done contraceptively is sex done contraceptively - and obviously makes any method to achieve such contraception.

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agreed. any form of contraception is gravely disordered, as the Protestant groups taught until 1930 and as the Catholic Church teaches

however, this Biblical Church does not believe that periodic abstinence is sex done contraceptively (contracepted sex)

I would agree that one's primary intention in using periodic abstinence cannot be to avoid pregnancy. one's primary intention must be something like avoiding excessive, destructive strain on one's spouse and children for the sake of the glory of God.

moreover, the act of sex itself must always express full self-giving and thus a fundamental openess to procreation.

God's Mercy wills to help everyone be freed from contraception

"husbands, love your wives as Christ loves the Church" Eph 5

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Sex done contraceptively is sex done contraceptively - and obviously makes any method to achieve such contraception.



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Agreed. any form of contraception is gravely disordered

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Amazing. Simply amazing.



In the words of my cradle Catholic brother-in-law, "When the Church makes up its mind, let me know."



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[sunlover1]

agreed. any form of contraception is gravely disordered, as the Protestant groups taught until 1930 and as the Catholic Church teaches

however, this Biblical Church does not believe that periodic abstinence is sex done contraceptively (contracepted sex)

What's really strange to me is that "this biblical church" teaches one thing
but yet this "biblical church" PRACTICES another thing.

"This biblical Church" is actually "the body of Christ" and it seems the
RCC part of the body of Christ, dont share the same idea about what
God desires. That or they're all living in sin.

Sad state of affairs ..

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Amazing. Simply amazing.



In the words of my cradle Catholic brother-in-law, "When the Church makes up its mind, let me know."



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The Church has nothing to make it's mind up on. The teaching is simple and clear. One either follows the teachings of the RCC or one does not. Simple as that.

 

[cubinity]

Yeah! You either honor the sabbath and not heal that guy's hand, or you heal that guy and reap the consequences! It's that simple.

Yep, that sounds like something in the Bible, alright!

 

[patricius79]

What's really strange to me is that "this biblical church" teaches one thing
but yet this "biblical church" PRACTICES another thing.

yes that is very sad. likewise that the Protestant groups don't agree with historical Protestantism about contraception

 

[cubinity]

yes that is very sad. likewise that the Protestant groups don't agree with historical Protestantism about contraception

How is that sad?
I am intentionally unwilling to buy into groupthink just for the sake of holding up traditional perceptions that no longer hold the relevance they did to those who came before me.
It's not sad. It's progress.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

yes that is very sad. likewise that the Protestant groups don't agree with historical Protestantism about contraception

Many of the Protestant churches changed around the time of the feminist movement, I believe. I think there is a connection to that.

Before that there was but one Protestant church that jumped on the contraception wagon and that was around 1910-1920, if I recall correctly.

The RCC is still teaching the same that the ECFs taught (as we saw with my quotes and links and which others provided sources for throughout this thread) and what the Apostles gave them and which they received from Jesus. This tells me that many Christians have become victims to this new man made tradition and adopted the contraceptive mentality.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

How is that sad?
I am intentionally unwilling to buy into groupthink just for the sake of holding up traditional perceptions that no longer hold the relevance they did to those who came before me.
It's not sad. It's progress.

Progress in to more traditions of men. This "progress" is nothing of the sort since it has been around for a very long time.

This was shown with quotes from ECFs.

 

[cubinity]

Progress in to more traditions of men. This "progress" is nothing of the sort since it has been around for a very long time.

This was shown with quotes from ECFs.

I'm having a hard time understanding what this means.
Try complete sentences. Expand those into complete ideas.
Then, press Submit Reply.
Thanks!

Your second sentence did make sense, but is a ridiculous claim.
Something have to be new to be progress? What a goofy concept.

 

[patricius79]

Many of the Protestant churches changed around the time of the feminist movement, I believe. I think there is a connection to that.

Before that there was but one Protestant church that jumped on the contraception wagon and that was around 1910-1920, if I recall correctly.

The RCC is still teaching the same that the ECFs taught (as we saw with my quotes and links and which others provided sources for throughout this thread) and what the Apostles gave them and which they received from Jesus. This tells me that many Christians have become victims to this new man made tradition and adopted the contraceptive mentality.

yes I think there is a "victim" element to this, since contraception is so taken for granted now even among most non-Catholic Christians and many Catholics. (so it seems to me. correct me if I'm wrong)

so many are led into this sin without full knowledge--perhaps nothing close to fully knowledge-- in my opinion

but ultimately I am responsible for discerning whether the Reformation and the early Church were right to so strongly condemn contraception or whether there is nothing wrong with it.

one of the things that comes to mind is how great a gift maritual sexuality is. it seems like one should totally give ones natural gift of sexuality to God and the spouse if they are going to have sex at all

perhaps the 1% divorce rate of NFP users is related to more of a sense of living out God's love by a full gift of self in purity.

Paul says that "impurity" is a sin

I can see how NFP could be abused. But I think it tends to discourage abuse and to encourage better communication, Christian romance, and openness to having children. (see e.g. the Lerner scientific survey)

I"m also concerned about what other deviations contraception might lead to, since the idea becomes one of simply experiencing sexual pleasure with one's spouse, rather than sexuality itself: i.e. fundamental openness to procreation

Paul said to keep the marriage bed undefiled. In my judgment, contraception defiles the marriage bed. although, again, I realize that many may due this in at least relative innocence

 

[bbbbbbb]

So, the question still remains - Are any and all forms of avoidance of human conception contraception or are some contraception and others concepts? If so, has God given us an objective means of determining what is contraception and what are just concepts?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

yes I think there is a "victim" element to this, since contraception is so taken for granted now even among most non-Catholic Christians and many Catholics. (so it seems to me. correct me if I'm wrong)

so many are led into this sin without full knowledge--perhaps nothing close to fully knowledge-- in my opinion

but ultimately I am responsible for discerning whether the Reformation and the early Church were right to so strongly condemn contraception or whether there is nothing wrong with it.

one of the things that comes to mind is how great a gift maritual sexuality is. it seems like one should totally give ones natural gift of sexuality to God and the spouse if they are going to have sex at all

perhaps the 1% divorce rate of NFP users is related to more of a sense of living out God's love by a full gift of self in purity.

Paul says that "impurity" is a sin

I can see how NFP could be abused. But I think it tends to discourage abuse and to encourage better communication, Christian romance, and openness to having children. (see e.g. the Lerner scientific survey)

I"m also concerned about what other deviations contraception might lead to, since the idea becomes one of simply experiencing sexual pleasure with one's spouse, rather than sexuality itself: i.e. fundamental openness to procreation

Paul said to keep the marriage bed undefiled. In my judgment, contraception defiles the marriage bed. although, again, I realize that many may due this in at least relative innocence

Excellent post.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

So, the question still remains - Are any and all forms of avoidance of human conception contraception or are some contraception and others concepts? If so, has God given us an objective means of determining what is contraception and what are just concepts?

The RCC has provided the answer for me in this regards.

I pray you receive God's guidance as I have.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The RCC has provided the answer for me in this regards.

I pray you receive God's guidance as I have.

I realize that you have posted these answers several times here, but I still do not understand the objective means which is used to determine when it is a sin to inhibit, if not entirely prevent, conception and when the inhibition, if not complete prevention, of conception is condoned and taught by the RCC. In both scenarios conception is intentionally avoided, is it not?

 

[The Beautiful Heresy]

Divorce will happen either way. Divorce is just like anything else that goes on in the world. We are fallen people who are constantly stumbling.

I know I am ranting, but a nerve has been struck I guess you could say.

We all have the right to be "Free" in Christ. There are decisions that we make that are primarily between God and ourselves.

Contraception is a personal issue between the person, couple and God.

In the end the opinion of another person should never determine whether or not you use birth control.

We have the gift of the Holy Spirit to lead and direct each us in the right decision for ourselves, and not allow 'man' to act as the Holy Spirit for us.

Religion just wants to dictate and control every single decision you make, and will use FEAR every time to keep you in 'check'.

Sad..

 

[ivebeenshown]

We have the gift of the Holy Spirit to lead and direct each us in the right decision for ourselves, and not allow 'man' to act as the Holy Spirit for us.

Religion just wants to dictate and control every single decision you make, and will use FEAR every time to keep you in 'check'.

Sad..

Morals are an objective reality, not an issue of 'well this seems wrong and this seems right to me.' The bible does not say the Holy Spirit will 'lead you in the right direction for yourself', as if to say you will feel a vague burning in the bosom or have a hunch that something is right or wrong. That is called 'conscience', and it is our duty as humans to form our conscience by using logic and rational thinking to understand what is right and wrong.

The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth through the Church to this day, just like in the first century when He inspired the Apostles to write Scripture.

And it's not about fear as much as it is about expressing our gratitude to God by forming our conscience to aid us in doing his will.

 

[The Beautiful Heresy]

Morals are an objective reality, not an issue of 'well this seems wrong and this seems right to me.' The bible does not say the Holy Spirit will 'lead you in the right direction for yourself', as if to say you will feel a vague burning in the bosom or have a hunch that something is right or wrong. That is called 'conscience', and it is our duty as humans to form our conscience by using logic and rational thinking to understand what is right and wrong.

The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth through the Church to this day, just like in the first century when He inspired the Apostles to write Scripture.

And it's not about fear as much as it is about expressing our gratitude to God by forming our conscience to aid us in doing his will.

The decision as to what you put in or out of your body will always be ultimately up the the individual. We all have the gift of the Holy Spirit that leads us through our own 'personal individual lives'.

I do not need the church or anybody else for that matter to decide on what I eat for dinner, wear to work, what kind of car to drive, and I surely do not need them to decide what I put in my body when it comes to birth control.

The RCC can make all the 'laws' they want, at the end of the day every human being will ultimately go with their own choices and what is best for them. Of course, there are some who will follow the rules of the Church and that is their business, but don't think everybody will.

The Holy Spirit leads each of us in his own direction for our own lives, and some are lead through the RCC, it is just not all.

God does work outside of the RCC in case you did not know that. His Spirit is not limited to the RCC altars. God is not Roman Catholic or Protestant either btw.

Religious institutions usually are in the business of control and they use 'fear' to keep people in line. It just does not work for me, sorry.

 

[MamaZ]

The decision as to what you put in or out of your body will always be ultimately up the the individual. We all have the gift of the Holy Spirit that leads us through our own 'personal individual lives'.

I do not need the church or anybody else for that matter to decide on what I eat for dinner, wear to work, what kind of car to drive, and I surely do not need them to decide what I put in my body when it comes to birth control.

The RCC can make all the 'laws' they want, at the end of the day every human being will ultimately go with their own choices and what is best for them. Of course, there are some who will follow the rules of the Church and that is their business, but don't think everybody will.

The Holy Spirit leads each of us in his own direction for our own lives, and some are lead through the RCC, it is just not all.

God does work outside of the RCC in case you did not know that. His Spirit is not limited to the RCC altars. God is not Roman Catholic or Protestant either btw.

Religious institutions usually are in the business of control and they use 'fear' to keep people in line. It just does not work for me, sorry.

Good post