Wanting a Tattoo

[arj1981]

What apology? About you calling Christ a drunk? I have no idea what point your trying to make with that, but it's bizarre, uncalled for, strange and still, yes, a dishonest statement.

I wasn't calling Christ a "technical drunk". U KEEP putting those words in my mouth and need to apologize for that. I was using wording in scripture. U want to go off on the gray beard argument (which I said NEVER fails)...well how drunk was He...r u calling Him an alcoholic....but I don't care about that. Neither of those things I was saying. To FULLY understand His story takes A LOT of learning so to say that part isn't true is WHOLLY incorrect. CHRIST DID do all those things when He hung out with sinners and tax collectors. In fact, He was saying He did all the drinking and whatnot while John the Baptist was completely innocent of such things.

LUKE 7
33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ 34 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.”’ 35 But wisdom is proved right by all her children.”

U nor I can say how MUCH Christ drank or didn't drink (He partook of alcohol all the same), so u r making the dishonest statement here. Have a feeling this is going to all go over ur head again.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

Have a feeling this is going to all go over ur head again.

It certainly has, goodbye now.

 

[arj1981]

SOS, I thought I'd try to help u out one more time, especially after what u said about Rev. However, nothing's working and it is ok. See, Terene. Christ will resolve all eventually. Just not today. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[wayfaring man]

I'm really sorry for my question starting such a heated debate.

But I'm glad I still asked. I thought about this a lot tonight and then coming here this morning and reading more I finally decided to not go ahead with the tattoo, or any tattoo.

For the reasons listed here and for the fact that I'm too heavily unsure of it, and that must be for a reason. Therefore, I'll more than likely regret it way too much afterwards.

I've done enough in the past that I've regretted and been ashamed of, this will not be another one.

Thank you so much for helping me come to this conclusion.

Yea, when in faith - do

When in doubt - don't

It highly doubtful God intends for our skin to be used as though a canvas or a billboard, especially in ways which are rather indelible, (extremely hard to remove).

And besides don't we have our hands full with pursuing the things which The Lord has clearly said we should do ?!

So that we are wise not to expend valuable time, resources, and energy on things which are at best doubtful.

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. <-----> Galatians 5:16

Personally, no matter how artistic, or religiously based, tattoos give the distinct impression of being amateurish graffiti criminally placed over a true work of art !

...and I think also that I have the Spirit of God. <---> 1st Corinthians 7:40

I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are thy works; and that my soul knows right well. <-----> Psalm 139:14

May The Lord Be Pleased !

wm

 

[Sketcher]

Maybe then you should take a look at the articles I linked here earlier on?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7567385-4/#post57705069

The articles I linked in this earlier posts of mine involved works written by famous tattooing artists/historians who actually admitted the EVIL roots of tattooing and how this is even so in the modern tattooing industry. You would think otherwise after reading these articles.

I've read tripe by Terry Watkins before. He's a legalist who uses verses for the purpose of rhetoric, but can't use them to prove his legalistic points. Such are the flaws of people who try to make the Bible say what it doesn't say.

 

[arj1981]

The Pharisees called Him a drunkard as a hateful slur and the writers of the gospels recorded it, what are you talking about?

Initial statement: Christ was a drunk (not technically. I just meant he drank wine) but that DOESN'T mean ALL Christians can become alcoholics.

I was simply using a figure of speech from scripture (which you just verified exists...so how would that be wrong on any front???) and I did emphasize NOT technically in parenthesis. One apology coming up.

I was using wording in scripture.

I think I can word this to make more sense now. It doesn't matter how FACTUALLY accurate this line is bc we can't prove it one way or the other HOW much He consumed. That's a gray beard argument which I didn't want to delve into. What qualifies as drunk? How much liquor did he consume? Etc. We just know he consumed alcohol all the same and I wanted to leave it at that. The point I was making is that that statement, as a figure of speech, is indeed both scripturally and historically accurate, therefore, it is not a dishonest remark under any capacity. It is a figure of speech which you noted was written down by the biblical scholars. Therefore, it isn't inaccurate either. It is scripturally factual. The point behind my argument was simply we can't say simply because "Christ was a drunk," or even the fact that He drank wine (that's why I added that part in there) we are allowed to do it too. I don't care how many personal liberties Christ had, that doesn't automatically apply to us. And of course this was a rebuttal to the fact that u were initially trying to say a passage in Rev. meant GOD allowed tattooing. However, since our discussion began u've reneged on those comments, but I just wanted to clarify this statement all the same.

 

[Terene]

I think I can word this to make more sense now. It doesn't matter how FACTUALLY accurate this line is bc we can't prove it one way or the other HOW much He consumed. That's a gray beard argument which I didn't want to delve into. What qualifies as drunk? How much liquor did he consume? Etc. We just know he consumed alcohol all the same and I wanted to leave it at that. The point I was making is that that statement, as a figure of speech, is indeed both scripturally and historically accurate, therefore, it is not a dishonest remark under any capacity. It is a figure of speech which you noted was written down by the biblical scholars. Therefore, it isn't inaccurate either. It is scripturally factual. The point behind my argument was simply we can't say simply because "Christ was a drunk," or even the fact that He drank wine (that's why I added that part in there) we are allowed to do it too. I don't care how many personal liberties Christ had, that doesn't automatically apply to us. And of course this was a rebuttal to the fact that u were initially trying to say a passage in Rev. meant GOD allowed tattooing. However, since our discussion began u've reneged on those comments, but I just wanted to clarify this statement all the same.

Sister, I think this argument can be taken into PM to resolve. This thread is about tattooing, remember?

 

[arj1981]

No, I am not going to take this into PM. And it isn't an argument that needs to be resolved apart from this. It is just a discussion. They came about bc of references to tattooing. Those comments are part of the discussion within this thread. Terene, r u ok? U just tried to censure me on a forum in which I was well within my rights to elaborate on a post in a thread. U got to know that doesn't look right, right? First, Gospel and sarcasm and now this? You like to police people as if we all weren't full bodied, grown adults.

 

[AdamKane]

This is a highly debated topic among Christians....

Tattoo work has come a long way along with the ink they use now it lasts forever. My next door neighbor owns a tattoo shop and is one of the strongest most awesome Christians I know. I want a tattoo also it is about what you put on your body that matters. I want one for my husband and I as well as my children some day. As long as you aren't getting satanic whatever on your skin that is what matters. At least that is my beliefs on it.

good luck =]

I agree.

 

[Terene]

I've read tripe by Terry Watkins before. He's a legalist who uses verses for the purpose of rhetoric, but can't use them to prove his legalistic points. Such are the flaws of people who try to make the Bible say what it doesn't say.

How about looking at the works he listed in his articles? They are the works written by tattoo artists who themselves admit that tattooing is EVIl in essence.

 

[Terene]

No, I am not going to take this into PM. And it isn't an argument that needs to be resolved apart from this. It is just a discussion. They came about bc of references to tattooing. Those comments are part of the discussion within this thread. Terene, r u ok? U just tried to censure me on a forum in which I was well within my rights to elaborate on a post in a thread. U got to know that doesn't look right, right? First, Gospel and sarcasm and now this? You like to police people as if we all weren't full bodied, grown adults.

You need to really calm down and start seeing what I am really trying to do. I am trying to prevent a contention as well as point out a fault that needs to be rectified before it is too late, I'm not trying to critique someone as though I'm the boss.

 

[arj1981]

You need to really calm down and start seeing what I am really trying to do. I am trying to prevent a contention as well as point out a fault that needs to be rectified before it is too late, I'm not trying to critique someone as though I'm the boss.

TD, this IS exactly how Flish started out until he got to know me (it's has been for a couple of months now). Please breath for me. It is going to be ok. Now u know what he says, I was mad I could NEVER get u upset. Believe me, he really tried. I kept trying to upset u so that I would feel better about myself and it NEVER worked. U don't know who ur dealing with. I'm a rock. I've been in this business for 15 years. And he's not the only one. Others have said it too. U really do know how to keep ur composure. U never go off. Stuff like that. I'm not as short-tempered as u'd think...despite appearances.

 

[arj1981]

TD, ur mood is grumpy and u really don't see how u could be projecting any of it.

 

[Flishvick07]

Ummm.. Idk what I'm supposed to say here to resolve this.. Both of you really are trying to convince each other of things neither one of you can prove. It doesn't matter what you MEAN, its really a matter of how it is perceived. Neither one of you can perceive what each other is TRYING to say, because you're only human like the rest. Both of you can call it whatever you want, but you're arguing with each other over something that can't be proven to or by either one. I'm not saying you guys should just stop talking, but most likely you're both accusing each other of the same thing which means your both doing the same thing which is what you believe is good. If both of you believe you are doing good, and both of you accuse each other of not doing good, then you're both doing good because it takes more than one man to condemn another man.

Does this make sense?

 

[arj1981]

LOL. Yes, that made sense. Thanks for speaking up brother. Whooa. I wouldn't use the word arguing though. I don't feel I'm arguing with Terene or SOS. I just want her to calm down some. Like breath. Terene, I have been stalked on these boards and held my composure through all of that. Whatever is taking place in this thread doesn't compare. I know ur trying to stage an intervention but please understand this is such light weight stuff I could do it in my sleep. I don't do grudges or hostility. I know some of this will just take time to learn as u learn everyone's individual personalities but please don't be so eager to critique or judge others until u've gotten to know us.

 

[Flishvick07]

Ummm.. Arj, I just said you're both trying to convince each other of things you can't prove. Then you just boasted about how good you are at this sort of stuff.. You can't prove that and now that you boasted of your own ability, according to the Bible I HAVE to take terene's side.... Do you not see this? Please don't be upset with me, I have no choice.. I said you were both doing good and then you boasted you can't be defeated cause you're that good.. Do you see what you did there? Please tell me you do..

 

[arj1981]

Flish, I didn't try to prove anything to her. I just told her to take sometime to get to learn everyone's individual personalities before she rushes to judge us. She doesn't know me well enough to know and understand my temperament (we've only met less than a week ago). That was the point of everything I just said. And there is no arguing going on. I really do want to stress that, so there is no point to prove here. Just people getting to know one another. And u know I didn't get offended by anything u just said.

 

[Flishvick07]

That's not the issue though. She sent me a PM after I posted asking me what she's doing wrong (after I took her side, I don't think she read that yet). She saw the post and WANTS TO IMPROVE to avoid this happening again. You saw the post and said you could do this blindfolded or something. I DIDN'T read the conversation and trusted the spirit would give me the answer to resolve this matter. You BOTH saw this answer as the solution, but you boast of how good you are at this. I DIDNT READ ANY POSTS. You just took credit for the work of the Holy Spirit at work and therefore I HAVE to take her side and tell you to repent.for this sin and not support you in this matter unless you publicly apologize..

 

[Exley]

Yea, when in faith - do

When in doubt - don't

It highly doubtful God intends for our skin to be used as though a canvas or a billboard, especially in ways which are rather indelible, (extremely hard to remove).

And besides don't we have our hands full with pursuing the things which The Lord has clearly said we should do ?!

So that we are wise not to expend valuable time, resources, and energy on things which are at best doubtful.

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. <-----> Galatians 5:16

Personally, no matter how artistic, or religiously based, tattoos give the distinct impression of being amateurish graffiti criminally placed over a true work of art !

...and I think also that I have the Spirit of God. <---> 1st Corinthians 7:40

I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are thy works; and that my soul knows right well. <-----> Psalm 139:14

May The Lord Be Pleased !

wm

Thank you for this.

 

[arj1981]

That's not the issue though. She sent me a PM after I posted asking me what she's doing wrong (after I took her side, I don't think she read that yet). She saw the post and WANTS TO IMPROVE to avoid this happening again. You saw the post and said you could do this blindfolded or something. I DIDN'T read the conversation and trusted the spirit would give me the answer to resolve this matter. You BOTH saw this answer as the solution, but you boast of how good you are at this. I DIDNT READ ANY POSTS. You just took credit for the work of the Holy Spirit at work and therefore I HAVE to take her side and tell you to repent.for this sin and not support you in this matter unless you publicly apologize..

Flish, child, from now on I'm just gonna have to keep it real with u 100% no matter what. U have way too many problems with ego for me to let u slide. I was trying to spare ur feelings and give u some encouragement. But I realize every time I boost u up, u take it too far. This would be another one of those moments. Plz don't get upset but I just said that. Ur post really didn't relate to the matter at all from my perspective. I couldn't make heads or tails out of any of it. Now the fact that u didn't read any posts prior to making a response explains it bc I was wondering...and u know I'm not making this up bc I said it in email...I told u I already understood her position on the issue, yet you were going on and on about how we didn't understand one another. Didn't get it honestly, but I valued ur input all the same; however, please don't turn this into a debate.

I just wanted ur help in clarifying things for Terene. She was trying to stage an intervention (see, I UNDERSTOOD her all along) as if she was about to prevent a world war 3 brawl and NONE of that was about to take place except by her estimate is what I was trying to get through to her. SOS and I have discussed a lot of things and never took it there. Typically, only unstable people do that. Apart from all of this, I've never seen SOS act out like that anyway. He's an adult. He can handle it. Bc of my individual personality, I would walk away b4 I let anything like that happen which I did in the women preachers thread. I believe it was all related to a misunderstanding anyway. However, if Terene took the time to get to know our individual personalities she could learn all this stuff about us on her own. Yet, she's not taking the time to get to know any of us. Instead she has self-admitted anger issues and constantly makes snap judgments about people she doesn't know, while policing their behavior and criticizing their individuality unnecessarily. I know she's trying to improve (told u, got her point from the beginning) but this isn't the first time. This is the umpteenth time. And now she's moved on to censuring posts and ordering people to finish up their convos in PM bc according to her??? discussing multiple topics in one thread isn't allowed. Although, wouldn't this convo be prohibited as well??? None of these edicts she frequently bandies about make any real sense. Especially the one about the prohibition of sarcasm. Where is that written in scripture? Even Christ got snarky on occasions.

Throughout this and other threads and in PM, I've been trying to work with Terene and show her how to stop being so judgmental toward other members in the body of Christ. U will be judged by the measuring rod u use to judge others, so Terene u harshly rebuked ur brother for showing a twig of sarcasm in his response. If u keep pulling stunts like this what do u think GOD's going to do to u in return when ur time comes??? Those are the things I want u to think about as I've said over and over again. We aren't suppose to stand in constant judgment of one another, ridicule one another, and obsessively nitpick to find fault in others. I have a feeling someone was very critical of u while growing up and so u think this is normal behavior but it isn't. It is the exact opposite. It is a bizarre tendency u have. Everyone's been commenting on it since u got here. Ur judgmental and like to dictate everything and everyone. U like to be in charge. That's coming across as clear as day.

All of this is all I was trying to stress to her, Flish. This wasn't EVER about proving who was right or wrong. Or taking a side??? Don't even know where that came from honestly. Terene and I are on the SAME side. That girl is a sweetheart when she's not acting like this that is. She sent me the same PM asking for the same advice. I just haven't responded yet. Also, no one said u had to do it blind. U can research the issue and become more knowledgeable about the circumstances and THEN ask the Holy Spirit to guide u. U aren't psychic remember?

I'm glad u spoke up all the same bc u really really needed to learn the Truth.