Issues in Scienceville.

[Delphiki]

@Inan:

Discrimination isn't the lack of making special exceptions for Christians in order to not offend them... In fact, to make special exceptions for any demographic would be discrimination.

Science doesn't care what religion you are, as long as you're using the proper method in your search for scientific knowledge... else it's not science.

 

[Inan3]

@Inan:

Discrimination isn't the lack of making special exceptions for Christians in order to not offend them... In fact, to make special exceptions for any demographic would be discrimination.

Science doesn't care what religion you are, as long as you're using the proper method in your search for scientific knowledge... else it's not science.

You are right, discrimination is "Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice" just as I have stated. These people are not looking for "special exceptions" they are looking to be treated on their individual merit and education and knowledge, rather than on their beliefs. People should be able to believe what they want and still get a science degree or tenure or submit data and have it reviewed on its merit rather than their belief.

You are right again "science" doesn't care what religion you are but "people" involved in Scienceville will and do care and therefore discrimination has been employed. As we see by this article and those who have said it happened to them. Also, this is not one or two individuals or incidents that have experienced this, this is wide spread and currently an issue in Scienceville.

 

[Hespera]

You are right, discrimination is "Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice" just as I have stated. These people are not looking for "special exceptions" they are looking to be treated on their individual merit and education and knowledge, rather than on their beliefs. People should be able to believe what they want and still get a science degree or tenure or submit data and have it reviewed on its merit rather than their belief.

You are right again "science" doesn't care what religion you are but "people" involved in Scienceville will and do care and therefore discrimination has been employed. As we see by this article and those who have said it happened to them. Also, this is not one or two individuals or incidents that have experienced this, this is wide spread and currently an issue in Scienceville.

did you figure out why people at christian universities are never
able to generate any data to support creationism?

People should be able to believe what they want and still get a science degree or tenure or submit data and have it reviewed on its merit rather than their belief.

they can and they do.

 

[mzungu]

@Inan:

Discrimination isn't the lack of making special exceptions for Christians in order to not offend them... In fact, to make special exceptions for any demographic would be discrimination.

Science doesn't care what religion you are, as long as you're using the proper method in your search for scientific knowledge... else it's not science.

Absolutely right! In fact you could be a pink polka dotted Octopus transvestite for all it matters. If you do science the by using the proper methodology then that is all that counts.

 

[Inan3]

Have you read some of the drivel posted by creationists around here? Dad, Doveman, AV1611VET -- have these self-appointed creationist spokesmen earned anything but mockery?

Though I am not in any way agreeing with your suggestion or refererence to the content in any of these posters, I believe I specifically said I was NOT referring to the posters here on this forum.

Dawkins is a man with an agenda -- no doubt about that.

And yet those who go to his meetings laugh and jeer right along with him. They are just as guilty as he is by doing so.

The rest of it, well, is well-deserved.

?

Well boo hoo -- sorry, there's no place in Scienceville for self-pity.

I don't know where you got self pity out of that. It wasn't there on my part anyway. Just chalk it up to another 180 degrees in perception... I guess.

If Scienceville is such a big, bad place, why do you want in in the first place?

Believe me the LAST place "I" want to be is Scienceville. I'm only trying to point out that it is not the "sparkly clean" industry that many here think it is. There are lots of issues in Scienceville.

 

[pgp_protector]

Believe me the LAST place "I" want to be is Scienceville. I'm only trying to point out that it is not the "sparkly clean" industry that many here think it is. There are lots of issues in Scienceville.

 

[Inan3]

Parasites

Biology An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

Hmmm

 

[selfinflikted]

Believe me the LAST place "I" want to be is Scienceville. I'm only trying to point out that it is not the "sparkly clean" industry that many here think it is. There are lots of issues in Scienceville.

There are issues in Anywhereville. No "ville" escapes issues.

Bottom line is, Science works; Creationism doesn't.

 

[AV1611VET]

Bottom line is, Science works;

If you do it right.

Creationism doesn't.

If you do it wrong.

 

[selfinflikted]

If you do it right.

If you do it wrong.

 

[Inan3]

There's many believers who are scientists. They may not be creationists, but at least half of the people in my program are religious. There's a notable lack of flat earther's in astrophysics. Do you think that's because a) there's a conspiracy that weeds out flat earther's or b) the data do not support flat earther's assertions? It's also important to point out that the critics of Kettlewell were not creationists. The article you've linked has one side of the story, which you've leapt on as correct, without looking at the underlying evidence or the accounts of the individuals involved. It's not that simple.

I agree but when you guys give me things to read or state certain things it's always one sided but you expect me to go with it. What I've been saying all along is there are two sides to this and when you shut out ALL the information you are not getting the whole picture. I believe there definitely is an agenda that keeps data and information at bay and from the public.... you don't.... not anything I can do about that but I am going to give the other side and as far as I am concerned that is enough to keep me from accepting all that you guys just seem believe is the end of truth.

 

[selfinflikted]

I agree but when you guys give me things to read or state certain things it's always one sided but you expect me to go with it. What I've been saying all along is there are two sides to this and when you shut out ALL the information you are not getting the whole picture. I believe there definitely is an agenda that keeps data and information at bay and from the public.... you don't.... not anything I can do about that but I am going to give the other side and as far as I am concerned that is enough to keep me from accepting all that you guys just seem believe is the end of truth.

What data do you suppose is being withheld, and why?

(And if you say they are withholding data that somehow proves god, or the flood, or whatever else, I'm just gonna lol @ u.)

 

[Inan3]

There are issues in Anywhereville. No "ville" escapes issues.

This is much closer to and admission that there are issues in Scienceville than I heard so far, usually I just hear it is all lies try to hurt an entire field of expertise. But I'll take this as at least a "nod" that I might not being lying.

As for Anywhereville you have to get your own thread on that like Split Rock did with "Creationville".. Ha ha

 

[selfinflikted]

This is much closer to and admission that there are issues in Scienceville than I heard so far, usually I just hear it is all lies try to hurt an entire field of expertise. But I'll take this as at least a "nod" that I might not being lying.

As for Anywhereville you have to get your own thread on that like Split Rock did with "Creationville".. Ha ha

I can't very well sit here and say with any degree of certainty that there are no "issues" in Scienceville, nor can I say with certainty that there are. I'm not a real scientist (unless a B.S. makes me one. lol), so I don't know what REALLY goes on behind closed doors. Again, just trying to be "real" (it's a new thing I'm trying on. So far, it seems to fit).

 

[Inan3]

What data do you suppose is being withheld, and why?

(And if you say they are withholding data that somehow proves god, or the flood, or whatever else, I'm just gonna lol @ u.)

First of all, I would ask it you if you saw this post #308 or read my initial post #1 which started this whole thread? Or did you just jump in from someone elses post to me? Because I would ask you to find out what I am saying. And to answer your question... I have never supposed any specific data is being withheld.

As to your ending statement you prove my point, though. EVEN IF someone DID produce data of the flood or anything else, Sciencevilles attitude is all made up... Reject!! LOL!!! So why should or would anyone TRY to produce it even if they could? That's why we don't see much of it submitted (in Scienceville anyway). Besides who's going to let them pursue their ideas? Their collegues? Their bosses? Nope. Just shut up and keep quiet about that stuff. Forget about it. Scientists are only human after all and they are subject to intimidation and trepidation as much as the next guy. Hmmmm???

 

[Delphiki]

. . . and when you shut out ALL the information you are not getting the whole picture.

Correct me if I'm wrong but "all" the information regarding creationism (at least the Christian story) can be found here:





You'll have to bring a little more to the table than that.

 

[selfinflikted]

First of all, I would ask it you if you saw this post #308 or read my initial post #1 which started this whole thread? Or did you just jump in from someone elses post to me? Because I would ask you to find out what I am saying. And to answer your question... I have never supposed any specific data is being withheld.

Yes, I read the OP, no I didn't read #308. But that has nothing to do with me asking if you think there is specific data being withheld. Also, it sucks that I have to change the color of my reply text because yours is mauve. Ick.

As to your ending statement you prove my point, though. EVEN IF someone DID produce data of the flood or anything else, Sciencevilles attitude is all made up... Reject!! LOL!!!

No. I said what I said because there is no data that corroborates the flood, et al, so how could it be withheld? That's why I would've lol'd @ u.

So why should or would anyone TRY to produce it even if they could?

Because it would change everything. If a person came up with that kind of evidence, they would go down in history.

The difference between you and I, however, is that I don't think such evidence has ever, or will ever be presented because it doesn't exist; not because there's a huge conspiracy.

That's why we don't see much of it submitted (in Scienceville anyway). Besides who's going to let them pursue their ideas? Their collegues? Their bosses? Nope. Just shut up and keep quiet about that stuff. Forget about it. Scientists are only human after all and they are subject to intimidation and trepidation as much as the next guy. Hmmmm???

I have no way of knowing if it's really like that in Scienceville or not. But neither do you.

 

[AV1611VET]

Correct me if I'm wrong but "all" the information regarding creationism (at least the Christian story) can be found here:

It tells us Who did it, how He did it, where He did it, when He did it, why He did it, how long it took Him to do it, what order He did it in, and who the eyewitnesses were.

What more information do you need?

 

[Nathan Poe]

This is much closer to and admission that there are issues in Scienceville than I heard so far, usually I just hear it is all lies try to hurt an entire field of expertise. But I'll take this as at least a "nod" that I might not being lying.

No, you're just trying to hurt an entire field of expertise -- by doing what, exactly?

No, seriously -- what exactly do you do?

This is not about science vs. creationism, nor is it even about science vs. Christianity; it's a far bigger issue than that. It's about reason vs. superstition. One of these things has an indisputable record of improving the human condition; the other does not. Look at the tale of the tape:

It goes all the way back to ancient times, with the people trying to figure out why the volcano explodes vs the people who think they can appease the angry god who lives in it by tossing in a virgin.

It goes back to Gallileo vs. the people who put him under house arrest.

It goes back to Ben Franklin inventing the lightning rod vs. the people condemning him for cheating God out of his punishment for sinners.

It goes back to the invention of epidural anesthesia vs the people who railed against it because it eliminated God's punishment -- pain during childbirth.

It even goes back to Charles Darwin vs. the people threatened by the notion that they actually earned their place as the dominant species -- it wasn't handed to them on a platter.

In short, it's about the people who used their resources to improve the world, vs. the people who demand that the world use its resources to improve them.

And you guys, the heirs to a legacy of contributing absolutely nothing to the world but the idolization of superstition and an inflated view of your own importance, supposedly granted to you from above, who have not learned a thing from your own history of having to be dragged into the future kicking and screaming...

Not.

One.

Thing,

Want to cry and whine at "Scienceville" for not giving you the respect you think you deserve? After the rest of us, those who value reason over superstition, have been giving you guys a free ride -- even as you spit in our faces and do your darnedest to derail the train at every opportunity -- you think you've earned even a modicum of respect?

Don't make me laugh.

The people of "Scienceville" will still do all the heavy lifting, and you guys will still reap the benefits alongside the rest of us -- be content with that.


(Whew... felt good to get that out of my system.)

 

[Nathan Poe]

It tells us Who did it, how He did it, where He did it, when He did it, why He did it, how long it took Him to do it, what order He did it in, and who the eyewitnesses were.

What more information do you need?

The truth would be appreciated -- but not expected.