Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (4)

[from scratch]

Yes but it doesn't mean we only need to ask forgiveness one time. And if we don't forgive others our faith is worthless and will save nothing. Is forgiveness not a work that we will be judged by?

Now there is a good subject - forgiveness what does it mean. Can the be cheap forgivness? Does it mean that we should forgive an unrepentant un changing person who asks for forgiveness and just continues doing the same stuff? It has been used as a means to do any someone wants on me. Is that right? Is it reasonable to be gun shy on the matter?

 

[from scratch]

James referred to the ten, you have implied and stated that he includes all, but that is not in the text.
So the fact that God wrote the ten Himself makes no difference?

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

That is correct.

 

[11822]

Now there is a good subject - forgiveness what does it mean. Can the be cheap forgivness? Does it mean that we should forgive an unrepentant un changing person who asks for forgiveness and just continues doing the same stuff? It has been used as a means to do any someone wants on me. Is that right? Is it reasonable to be gun shy on the matter?

We must forgive everyone every time they offend us. Its not limited to our brothers and sisters. But God never said we had to stay in an abusive relationship with someone that uses our forgiveness against us. But there might be reward in it if you can handle it. I couldn't handle it well myself.


Mt 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Mt 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mt 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

 

[11822]

It looks like we do ask forgiveness from God according to Mt 6:12.

 

[from scratch]

I'm not sure where the ask that was on earth is. What I do know is that the ark on earth was patterned after the ark that was in heaven. So if the ark on earth had the ten commandments in it, what does that mean about the ark in heaven?

The reason I asked is because the Ark of the covenant is nowhere to be found on earth. but is sighted in heaven after the destruction of the Temple. I'mkinda wondering if it got transported to heaven. I'm not sure what Moses saw to be copied. He must have been some artist to get a detailed picture to the artisans who made it.

 

[mandelduke]

And i never said it did. I just said faith without works is not faith because its dead. Only when we have works is that faith alive. And works are more than just charity. Works are everything we do. Our faith is known by our works.

James said this because there was a famine going on and christens were not sending money to the church of Jerusalem. “People were starving” So yes their faith was useless, he was not saying they were not saved! Here is something for you to think about.
Mark-5:13
5Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[from scratch]

The opposite isn't always true, i agree.


The word throughout the NT tells us faith doens't give liberty to break any of the 10 Cs except maybe sabbath (according to Romans 14) The rest are taught in NC teaching.

No one here that I know of is teaching that liberty gives the right to sin - Gal 5:13. But the 10 Cs don't have jusridiction in the NC according to Jeremiah and the historical record of Jesus and the early church as recorded in the first 5 books of the NT.

 

[11822]

James said this because there was a famine going on and christens were not sending money to the church of Jerusalem. “People were starving” So yes their faith was useless, he was not saying they were not saved! Here is something for you to think about.
Mark-5:13
5Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Even if thats the reason James says it, its still truth. Just as its true when paul says we're not justified by works but faith. He had a reason too. He was talking to unbelieving Jews teaching Circumcision and to those they caused to stumble in faith.

And please think about this also:
The commandments im talking about are taught by Jesus and His apostles. They're commandments of Christ


Paul also said:

Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works

Tit 3:14 And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Tit 2:6 Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.
Tit 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works

 

[from scratch]

You keep saying im posting commandments that don't belong in the NC but they come from Jesus and the apostles and are NC doctrine.

I'm sorry but I responded to Stryder and you take it to mean something else. I don't ever remember Stryder referring to commandments in the NT that aren't recorded in the OT. My remarks had nothing to do with any remark from you.

Now you do seem to be of a different flavor. Now it s is still following rules or the law. You have used both OT and NT laws in your posts. The deal is if I were to consent to the requirement to follow a rules list it would immediately be converted to the OT law. You have shown yourself to unstable for me to believe anything else. You have my regrets on the matter. Your postion is very clear and anti grace - pro law..

 

[from scratch]

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Whats your point? Faith without works is not true faith. Only those that keep Gods commandments belong to Jesus. The rest are wannabe's according to Christs doctrine.

It is amazing that you can include these remaks and this Scripture in the same post.

Neither this Scripture above nor James is referring to works of the law in regards to salvation.

 

[11822]

No one here that I know of is teaching that liberty gives the right to sin - Gal 5:13. But the 10 Cs don't have jusridiction in the NC according to Jeremiah and the historical record of Jesus and the early church as recorded in the first 5 books of the NT.

What will you accomplish by saying Jesus only gave 2 commandments when he gave more? What will you accomplish by dismissing all of the 10 Cs? Heck Paul actually directly teaches the 5thC with its original promise given to the Jews and teaches the las t6 in numerous places. Everyone has said salvation comes from faith not the law. All some are saying is its Gods will to abstain from fornication, adultery, lying, stealing and covetousness which is taught in the new covenant by Jesus and the apostles throughout the NT. Agree with that and ill gladly agree with you about how only faith saves us, which i do anyway.

 

[from scratch]

We are not judged yet. Our sins are not blotted out yet. One day God will judge every man according to their works.

I think they are as I have already passed the judgement of death and have life and Jesus said so - Jn 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

[from scratch]

IOW, you don't believe that the blood that Christ shed on the cross of Calvary was sufficient to BLOT out our sins NOW? When do you think this will happen?

Im saying every man will be judged according to His works one day by God. Even us. And we must pray for forgiveness each time we sin and only if we forgive others will we be forgiven ourselves.

Nope the righteous have already passed that judgement Jn 5:24.

 

[11822]

I think they are as I have already passed the judgement of death and have life and Jesus said so - Jn 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

And how does that verse prove what i said to be wrong? It doesn't in any way.

 

[mandelduke]

What will you accomplish by saying Jesus only gave 2 commandments when he gave more? What will you accomplish by dismissing all of the 10 Cs? Heck Paul actually directly teaches the 5thC with its original promise given to the Jews and teaches the las t6 in numerous places. Everyone has said salvation comes from faith not the law. All some are saying is its Gods will to abstain from fornication, adultery, lying, stealing and covetousness which is taught in the new covenant by Jesus and the apostles throughout the NT. Agree with that and ill gladly agree with you about how only faith saves us, which i do anyway.

The only commandments I know that Jesus gave were “Believe in me, and love your neighbor as yourself”

 

[11822]

Nope the righteous have already passed that judgement Jn 5:24.

My original post: "Im saying every man will be judged according to His works one day by God. Even us. And we must pray for forgiveness each time we sin and only if we forgive others will we be forgiven ourselves."



Nothing i said is wrong. Maybe we wont be judged by our works but we will be rewarded according our works. But it does say the dead will be judged by them, maybe thats not us but it could be. As far as forgiveness goes thats already proven.


Mt 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works

Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works

 

[11822]

The only commandments I know that Jesus gave were “Believe in me, and love your neighbor as yourself”

The apostles Gave us Commandments by authority given by Christ. Paul commanded the Gentile Church to abstain from fornication and meat offered to idols. He say its Gods will. That makes it Gods commandment.

Jesus said forgive or you wont be forgiven. That a commandment also.

 

[mandelduke]

Nothing i said is wrong. Maybe we wont be judged by our works but we will be rewarded according our works. But it does say the dead will be judged by them, maybe thats not us but it could be. As far as forgiveness goes thats already proven.

Now you are on to something!

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned , he shall suffer loss : but he himself shall be saved ; yet so as by fire.

 

[11822]

Now you are on to something!

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned , he shall suffer loss : but he himself shall be saved ; yet so as by fire.

I wish the thread were about works and love. Im so tired of this law debate but i feel compelled to continue defending NC law as long as others seem to abolish it.

 

[11822]

Someone said it was sad that i focused on the law and not the cross. He's right. We should be showing love in the Holy Spirit but we argue over the law instead. We're all guilty and its because we can't agree. Thats called a stumbling block and Paul commands us to remove stumbling blocks.