Evidence for a global flood

[AV1611VET]

Indeed. The people who claim God is a meddler constantly messing with our affairs, have no excuse.

They aren't going to have any evidence either, when it flees and leaves them standing before the Great White Throne Judgement -- some friend, eh?

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

How sad -- they'll invest all their lives (and even their souls) in exploring and defending this universe, only to have it abandon them at the crucial moment.

And when it's all over, God is going to hunt it down and do a real number on it:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[Hespera]

So, let me see if I have this straight. Your contention is that people become scientists in order to gain power? Exactly what power is it you think they are gaining?

oh you know a screed like that is all about the person writing it, it says nothing about the people she imagines she knows about.

its a grotesque caricature, and deeply insulting but hey, like I said about who it speaks of.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Well, Jesus certainly quoted the facts as evidence to verify truths.

“It is written: ‘Man shall not live by bread...’”

“It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God...’”

“It is written: ‘I will send my messenger...’”

It is written, therefore it is true.

But only if it's written in the Bible, right? "It is written", to be sure, but so what? Many things are also written in the Qu'ran, but I don't see you citing that...

 

[Doveaman]

But only if it's written in the Bible, right?

Yes.

"It is written", to be sure, but so what? Many things are also written in the Qu'ran, but I don't see you citing that...

Based on my experience and the experience of many others like myself no other book has proven to be as reliable as the Bible. The Bible has never failed me once. The others have failed me.

 

[Hespera]

Yes.
Based on my experience and the experience of many others like myself no other book has proven to be as reliable as the Bible. The Bible has never failed me once. The others have failed me.

a donald duck comic wont fail you if you just beleive everything in it

 

[Doveaman]

a donald duck comic wont fail you if you just beleive everything in it

Surely you jest.

 

[AV1611VET]

a donald duck comic wont fail you if you just beleive everything in it

Are you speaking from experience?

 

[Hespera]

Surely you jest.

talking snake / donkey book vs talking duck book.

willing suspension of disbelief is good while being entertained,
but i dont find real life to be an entertainment.

a book that tells whoppers like noahs ark is not my idea of a useful or reliable book.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Yes.
Based on my experience and the experience of many others like myself no other book has proven to be as reliable as the Bible. The Bible has never failed me once. The others have failed me.

I daresay Muslims and Hindus would say exactly the same about their books, too. The brain is a funny old thing like that. But they're the ones who're really deluded, right?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Surely you jest.

She has a point - no matter what the book, so long as you put your faith and trust in it, it won't fail you. The Qu'ran will fail you because you don't consider it any more significant than, say, Harry Potter. The Bible won't fail you, not because it's of divine origin, but because you put your trust in it. That's why people of other faiths don't see their religious texts failing them.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What sort of geologic evidence is there for a global flood? Please do not deviate off into tangents about evolution. This is strictly about geology.

Flood evidence is worldwide. Problems is that Noah's flood was just the latest of many large ones and it's evidence is mixed and jumbled with past flood evidence. I don't see how it can be sorted out in any meaningful way. I also don't believe that the story of the flood has been accurately translated or interpreted. And as I don't believe there is a real conflict with science concerning evidence I think the story must be examined more carefully. I also think that science has to develop better models to study flood evidence (so far as I know there is no flood model that is concerned with the removal of all flood evidence by that very flood itself). When all is said and done I don't think there will be any conflict between science and the biblical account. (Of course I present this an article of faith. )

 

[VehementiDominus]

Surely you jest.

Surely she doesn't.

If you believed Donald Duck comics with the same blind conviction you believe the Bible, to the point that everything in it's right - no questions asked - of course it wouldn't fail you. Even when the evidence contradicts Donald Duck, you'll still believe it, so how could it fail you?

 

[Hespera]

Flood evidence is worldwide. Problems is that Noah's flood was just the latest of many large ones and it's evidence is mixed and jumbled with past flood evidence.Problems is that Noah's flood was just the latest of many large ones and it's evidence is mixed and jumbled with past flood evidence. I also don't believe that the story of the flood has been accurately translated or interpreted. And as I don't believe there is a real conflict with science concerning evidence I think the story must be examined more carefully. I also think that science has to develop better models to study flood evidence (so far as I know there is no flood model that is concerned with the removal of all flood evidence by that very flood itself). When all is said and done I don't think there will be any conflict between science and the biblical account. (Of course I present this an article of faith. )

Flood evidence is worldwide

yes here and there one finds evidence of discreet floods of various sizes that have happened at widely different times. Those have been mapped and dated.

Problems is that Noah's flood was just the latest of many large ones and it's evidence is mixed and jumbled with past flood evidence.

Actually there are several problems here.

One is that its not true, you just made that up.

Which brings up the problem mentioned in another thread, the ethics and morality of making things up, or being grossly negligent regarding fact checking.

Another is the utter illogic of it that we can find plenty of evidence of small discrete local floods, but THEY mess up the evidence for the BIG flood that came later? how backward can you get in your thinking.

I don't see how it can be sorted out in any meaningful way.

As a person devoid of knowledge of matters geological we wont expect you to see how things are "sorted out'. That doesnt mean there arent others who do know that. And how to do heart surgery, or run an oil refinery, fix a jet engine, etc.

I also don't believe that the story of the flood has been accurately translated or interpreted.

Goes for the whole bible, but discuss that with the inerrantists like av

I also think that science has to develop better models to study flood evidence (so far as I know there is no flood model that is concerned with the removal of all flood evidence by that very flood itself)

.

You can probably let the geologists do their work with no instructions from you about models for a self erasing flood!

When all is said and done I don't think there will be any conflict between science and the biblical account.

This will happen when the bible-people learn to change their interpretations to line up wiht reality instead of denying reality in favour of their interpretations.

 

[Hespera]

Surely she doesn't.

If you believed Donald Duck comics with the same blind conviction you believe the Bible, to the point that everything in it's right - no questions asked - of course it wouldn't fail you. Even when the evidence contradicts Donald Duck, you'll still believe it, so how could it fail you?

i wonder how a math book would fail someone... maybe he never used a math book. maybe the fail was the other way around.

 

[AV1611VET]

This will happen when the bible-people learn to change their interpretations to line up wiht reality instead of denying reality in favour of their interpretations.

Hopefully, that will never happen.

Since reality changes with every new discovery, our interpretations of the Bible would have to change as well.

The Bible has a high viscosity, whereas reality is mercurial.

 

[Doveaman]

I daresay Muslims and Hindus would say exactly the same about their books, too.

I know.

The brain is a funny old thing like that.

The Bible tells us why the brain is like that.

But they're the ones who're really deluded, right?

Right.

And here’s the reason why:

“There is a spirit in man...For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him?” (Job 32:8, 1 Cor 2:11).

Both God and Satan influence the human brain via that human spirit in man. God creates the true concept of Himself in the minds of a few humans via that spirit in man, while, at the same time, He allows Satan, the god of this world, to create a false concept of God in the minds of the rest of humanity via that same spirit in man. This result in the delusion of most of humanity:

“The god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” (2 Cor 4:4).

I know this sounds unbelievable, but that’s only because I’m right.

She has a point - no matter what the book, so long as you put your faith and trust in it, it won't fail you. The Qu'ran will fail you because you don't consider it any more significant than, say, Harry Potter. The Bible won't fail you, not because it's of divine origin, but because you put your trust in it. That's why people of other faiths don't see their religious texts failing them.

Well, from the Christian perspective, our trust is in the true God who inspired the book. This is how we know for a fact that the book is the only true book. The others are just deluded.

Again, this may sound unbelievable, but that’s only because I’m right.

 

[VehementiDominus]

Hopefully, that will never happen.

Since reality changes with every new discovery, our interpretations of the Bible would have to change as well.

The Bible has a high viscosity, whereas reality is mercurial.

The problem there is, the Bible was written before a lot of discoveries were made.

When it was written everyone hardly understood anything compared to what's understood now - it's a primitive myth, no different from people believing gods pull the sun through the sky on a chariot.

Because our understanding changes with every (Or some discoveries, a lot of discoveries either enforce what we already understood, or add depth to our understanding.) new discovery that when we discover we're wrong we can adapt to a more likely explanation.

You can't do that, you're stuck with something written by a primitive people to try and explain things they lacked the technology to properly examine.

Our understanding of reality gets better yours stays the same, stagnant and primitive and essentially wrong.

 

[VehementiDominus]

I know.
The Bible tells us why the brain is like that.
Right.

And here’s the reason why:

“There is a spirit in man...For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him?” (Job 32:8, 1 Cor 2:11).

Both God and Satan influence the human brain via that human spirit in man. God creates the true concept of Himself in the minds of some humans via that spirit in man. At the same time, He allows Satan, the god of this world, to create a false concept of God in the minds of the rest of humanity via that same spirit in man. This results in the delusion of most of humanity:

“The god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” (2 Cor 4:4).

I know this sounds unbelievable, but that’s only because I’m right.
Well, from the Christian perspective, our trust is in the true God who inspired the book. This is how we know for a fact that the book is the only true book. The others are just deluded.

Again, this may sound unbelievable, but that’s only because I’m right.

So, they're wrong about their holy books and you're right about yours... because it says so in yours?



Also, can you provide evidence (And no, the Bible is not evidence.) that Satan and God influence our brains? Can you show the brain scans of God or Satan affecting our brains? can you show us what chemicals and electrical impulses God and Satan use to influence our brains?

Because I highly doubt they're there.

It sounds unbelievable because it's nonsense.

I have a lightsabre in my shed. It sounds unbelievable because I'm right.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Right.

And here’s the reason why:

“There is a spirit in man...For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him?” (Job 32:8, 1 Cor 2:11).

Both God and Satan influence the human brain via that human spirit in man. God creates the true concept of Himself in the minds of a few humans via that spirit in man, while, at the same time, He allows Satan, the god of this world, to create a false concept of God in the minds of the rest of humanity via that same spirit in man. This result in the delusion of most of humanity:

“The god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” (2 Cor 4:4).

I know this sounds unbelievable, but that’s only because I’m right.

So, according to you, both God and Satan influence the human mind. How, then, do you know that you're not being influenced by Satan? How do you know that the True Religion isn't Hinduism or Sikhism or Jainism, and that Satan has convinced you, by pretending to be God, that Christianity is the true religion?

That is, why do you trust that your religious experiences are from God, if, by your own admission, Satan himself can deceive the mind?

Well, from the Christian perspective, our trust is in the true God who inspired the book. This is how we know for a fact that the book is the only true book. The others are just deluded.

So you trust that God inspired the Bible. Fine. But that doesn't make it a fact - you've just made an assumption, a priori, without any prior backing. As you say, you put your trust in God, you trust that he inspired the Bible.

Why don't you trust the Qu'ran?

Again, this may sound unbelievable, but that’s only because I’m right.

Unless, of course, you're not - in which case it would sound equally unbelievable.

 

[VehementiDominus]

That is, why do you trust that your religious experiences are from God, if, by your own admission, Satan himself can deceive the mind?

I think it's just his way of saying "Voices in my head tell me to do things and I obey them because they scare me."

He should probably go to a psychiatric ward, or something. Get those voices checked out.