The general expulsion...

[visionary]

Acts 18:1
[ Corinth ] After Athens, Paul went to Corinth. That is where he discovered Aquila, a Jew born in Pontus, and his wife, Priscilla. They had just arrived from Italy, part of the general expulsion of Jews from Rome ordered by Claudius.

Anyone know or have the order from Rome regarding this expulsion.. and were believers [Jews and gentiles who had the Judaic faith including the one in the Messiah Yeshua] included in this expulsion as "Jews" ? Was this expulsion order part of the reason that Peter and Paul were executed in Rome?

 

[GuardianShua]

Good question. I presume that the Romans did not make any distinction between Orthodox Jews and the converts to Christ.

 

[yedida]

Since this comes from a "pagan" I thought it might hold some water, so to speak:
Suetonius on Chrestus and the expulsion of the Jews.
good hunting.

 

[visionary]

This was the only comment.. but alas .. no details..

Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome. He allowed the envoys of the Germans to sit in the orchestra, led by their naïve self-confidence; for when they had been taken to the seats occupied by the common people and saw the Parthian and Armenian envoys sitting with the senate, they moved of their own accord to the same part of the theater, protesting that their merits and rank were no whit inferior.

Thanks for the link though..

 

[Lulav]

Acts 18:1
[ Corinth ] After Athens, Paul went to Corinth. That is where he discovered Aquila, a Jew born in Pontus, and his wife, Priscilla. They had just arrived from Italy, part of the general expulsion of Jews from Rome ordered by Claudius.

Anyone know or have the order from Rome regarding this expulsion.. and were believers [Jews and gentiles who had the Judaic faith including the one in the Messiah Yeshua] included in this expulsion as "Jews" ? Was this expulsion order part of the reason that Peter and Paul were executed in Rome?

I have either written in a post just recently or read it somewhere (sometimes the line blurs ) about this. If I remember correctly all Jews were treated the same at this time, didn't matter what you believed.

Now as far as Peter and Paul in Rome, it is a mystery what happened to them. The tradition (from the RCC) is that Paul died in Rome but there is no writing on this. Some have him going on to Spain and elsewhere. As far as Peter it is only a tradition moreso than Paul that he died there, and many believe that he never even went to Rome.

There has been a ossuary found in Jerusalem back in the 1950's I think it was that marked with 'Simon Bar Jonas' and found with other NT names on other ossuaries. It was shown at the time to the Pope and he agreed it most likely was the Peter of the NT writings.

 

[yedida]

I have either written in a post just recently or read it somewhere (sometimes the line blurs ) about this. If I remember correctly all Jews were treated the same at this time, didn't matter what you believed.

Now as far as Peter and Paul in Rome, it is a mystery what happened to them. The tradition (from the RCC) is that Paul died in Rome but there is no writing on this. Some have him going on to Spain and elsewhere. As far as Peter it is only a tradition moreso than Paul that he died there, and many believe that he never even went to Rome.

There has been a ossuary found in Jerusalem back in the 1950's I think it was that marked with 'Simon Bar Jonas' and found with other NT names on other ossuaries. It was shown at the time to the Pope and he agreed it most likely was the Peter of the NT writings.

I'm not sure, but are you thinking of the edicts that were passed out by the "church fathers" regarding the Jews and the Christians still observing Jewish customs during the Inquisition? It sounds like something similar, just the wrong century.

 

[Lulav]

This was the only comment.. but alas .. no details..

Thanks for the link though..

This is interesting to note as Josephus doesn't mention this at all.

Here's another blurp but found at a Christian site:

Although Claudius treated Jews, especially those in Asia and Egypt, comparatively well at first, around 49 AD he banished them all from Rome, as stated in the Scripture references in the opening paragraph. Christians were included in the expulsion since they were viewed as merely a Jewish sect.

 

[yedida]

Acts 18:1
[ Corinth ] After Athens, Paul went to Corinth. That is where he discovered Aquila, a Jew born in Pontus, and his wife, Priscilla. They had just arrived from Italy, part of the general expulsion of Jews from Rome ordered by Claudius.

Anyone know or have the order from Rome regarding this expulsion.. and were believers [Jews and gentiles who had the Judaic faith including the one in the Messiah Yeshua] included in this expulsion as "Jews" ? Was this expulsion order part of the reason that Peter and Paul were executed in Rome?

Here's another attempt (it's within Christianity) but there are a few other names you might want to look into....
Euangelion: The Expulsion of Jews from Rome

 

[Lulav]

In his book, 'Jew and Gentile in the Ancient World', Louis Feldman writes that Claudius may himself actually have been a Jew albeit a cast off son as some in Alexandria implied. It seems that Agrippa I who was raised in the court at Rome played a role in the accession of Claudius to the throne in 41CE after Caligula was assassinated. It seems shortly afterward under the influence of his friend Agrippa Claudius issued an edict that reaffirmed that the Jews had equal civic rights.

He also goes on to say the the statement made and recorded by Suetonius that Claudius expelled from Rome the Jews who persisted in rioting at the instigation of Chrestus, that he did not really expell them so much as they had increased in numbers, to he ordered them while they could continue in their ways of life to stop holding meetings.

Besides he says, it was impossible to expell all Jews as some had citizenship and it was against the roman law to do so.

It seems not only Josephus didn't bother to mention this nor did Tacitus.

He goes on to say that if this was over the Chrestus, perhaps it was only the Christians that were expelled but it seems more likely that because there were so many Jews and Jews of influence, that he revoked this order and only forbade them to assemble in this name.

I hope that helps in your studies.

 

[Lulav]

I'm not sure, but are you thinking of the edicts that were passed out by the "church fathers" regarding the Jews and the Christians still observing Jewish customs during the Inquisition? It sounds like something similar, just the wrong century.

No, it's from the first century as that is what I've been studying of late.

 

[yedida]

No, it's from the first century as that is what I've been studying of late.

Looks like she picked a toughie this time. Good luck, sissie.

 

[visionary]

Here's another blurp but found at a Christian site:

Although Claudius treated Jews, especially those in Asia and Egypt, comparatively well at first, around 49 AD he banished them all from Rome, as stated in the Scripture references in the opening paragraph. Christians were included in the expulsion since they were viewed as merely a Jewish sect.

Could you give me the link?

This goes to verify that Christians were still thought of as a mere Jewish sect even if they were gentiles and in Rome... no less..

 

[Lulav]

Here's another blurp but found at a Christian site:

Could you give me the link?

This goes to verify that Christians were still thought of as a mere Jewish sect even if they were gentiles and in Rome... no less..

Jew and Gentile in the Ancient World', Louis Feldman's book? Can be found at Amazon, B&N, and Borders. Or you can read some of it online at Google.

 

[Lulav]

It was from 'The Jew and Gentile in the Ancient world' You can read some of it here.

These are also by Louis Feldman:

A book titled 'Jewish life and thought among Greeks and Romans' can be read at this link .

'Judaism and Hellenism reconsidered' also speaks of the Jewish expulsion, here.

Jesus outside the New Testament here

 

[visionary]

Thank you.. I have made a copy to put in my messianic history file.. hope you don't mind.. this is excellent historical documentation of the Messianic Judaism faith even in Rome.. first century.

 

[visionary]

Bless your heart.. thank you.. I have posted your post in Messianic History as I believe it would be a great contribution.. hope you don't mind... it is a compliment to your work and studies.

 

[SGM4HIM]

Visionary,
I just found an excerpt that may be helpful on pg 5 of 13 under IV he picks up with a reference to Aquila and Priscilla leaving Rome. Hope this helps; I have not had time to dive in to it yet.
http://www.holyfear.net/pdf/bruce/claudius_bruce.pdf

 

[Lulav]

Bless your heart.. thank you.. I have reported your post in Messianic History as I believe it would be a great contribution.. hope you don't mind... it is a compliment to your work and studies.

You reported my post? :o

 

[visionary]

You reported my post? :o

I meant posted?? lol sorry .. made correction on that word

 

[visionary]

Visionary,
I just found an excerpt that may be helpful on pg 5 of 13 under IV he picks up with a reference to Aquila and Priscilla leaving Rome. Hope this helps; I have not had time to dive in to it yet.
http://www.holyfear.net/pdf/bruce/claudius_bruce.pdf

May I post this in Messianic History... cause I think this is a very important clue to what was happening...