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Creationists, what do the worlds universities know that creationists don't?

MoonLancer

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So the God who is light years ahead of man in intelligence, authored an instruction manual (bible) that is open to interpretation and thus failed to homogenise Christians into one church? This resulted in the myriads of churches each with its own version of the Bible. This has gone so far as some people claiming that the if the KJV1611 differs from the original Greek and Hebrew texts then the KJV1611 should be considered the correct one. This is not only blasphemous but outright silly.

So much for Intelligent design! :doh:

Well to be fair before Martian Luther the church simply told people what to believe and only priests could interpret or read the bible. But Christianity was pretty corrupt at the time so it didn't take much to fracture. If left unchecked by power the factions of man will swell and divide. I guess this applies to churches as well. and considering the tower of babel its quite contrived.
 
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mzungu

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Well to be fair before Martian Luther the church simply told people what to believe and only priests could interpret or read the bible. But Christianity was pretty corrupt at the time so it didn't take much to fracture. If left unchecked by power the factions of man will swell and divide. I guess this applies to churches as well. and considering the tower of babel its quite contrived.
You have just defined social evolution of religion :thumbsup:
 
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wensdee

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When children are given their religions I should think they are also given a few do's and don'ts which might go something like this:
believe this because it's true and because it's what we all believe,
the Bible is true because the Bible says it's true,
don't ask silly questions, silly questions are questions contradicting the Bible, the Bible is never wrong,
if it's in the Bible it's true because it says so in the Bible and we don't go against the Bible, do we?
every other religion is wrong only our religion is right, remember that.
if in doubt about anything read your Bible because all the answers are in there somewhere,
you must always go to church and seek out the company of people of our faith,
don't make things up, leave that to the people who know what they're doing,
the KJV1611 Bible is the best and only true Bible, all the others have mistakes in them,
everyone around here thinks the Bible is true so we will as well, we don't want to be different do we? so please believe it.

Then again I could be wrong. [which is there to allow people to tell me that I am]
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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Andesite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Andesite (
11px-Loudspeaker.svg.png
/ˈændəsaɪt/) is an extrusive igneous, volcanic rock, of intermediate composition, with aphanitic to porphyritic texture. In a general sense, it is the intermediate type between basalt and dacite. The mineral assemblage is typically dominated by plagioclase plus pyroxene and/or hornblende. Magnetite, zircon, apatite, ilmenite, biotite, and garnet are common accessory minerals(emphasis mine)

Plagioclase Mineral Data
Pyroxene, Tourmaline, Garnet
Hornblende: Hornblende mineral information and data.


It tells you its hardness. That's why diamond scaled at ten is in fact difficult to carve.
Mohs hardness only tells you if one mineral will scratch the surface of another. It is most often reported because it is easy to measure compared indentation hardness, tensile strength, compressive strength or frature toughness which are more relevant measures for lapidary considerations. Fracture toughness is tendancy to fracture when exposed to an impact stress. feldspare is a brittle mineral that fractures easily under impact even though it has a relatively high Mohs hardness.
:doh: Anyways, moving on.

Yes there has.

Irrelevant

Good.
It is actually. It isn't.

Irrelevant.

You haven't grasped,

1) The use of the global fire in the explanation
I have grasped that you are trying to use fires after the Chicxulub impact 65 million years ago to cover the fact that you can't refute many of the falsification of the global flood.
2) The link providing an explanation of the survivors
Was this the link refering to survivors of a local flood?
3) The creation of man in relation to the flood
4) The devolution of man
I grasped that this is nonsense.
5) Cultural dispersion

Moving on though.
That's not an argument. Who is "we"? The data has already been given and you seem bankrupt when attempting to assess. Somehow this apparent fact will be drowned out by links to Von Daniken and an ancient astronaut fixation. Anyways, moving on to others.
Noah's Flood


There is no evidence for the crustal shift refered to and tsunamis all around the world of the size mentioned would certainly have left much evidence of their occurance and if you read his link to "extinction of Cro-Magnan man 10,000 years ago you will see that it does not reference any such event because there was no "extinction of Cro-Magnan man. Cro-Magnans were modern humans and the term refers to the earliest modern humans known in Europe.

However this page is again referring local floods even if they do occur all around the globe in his "model". There were many large local floods around the earth at the end of the last ice age. Just not all at the same time as this page claims.

Did you actually read the page? He is certainly not talking about a year long global flood that prevailed over all the mountains and killed all land animals not on the ark.

And the movement of Noah’s ark would make sense (except for forty days and nights of rain).

Only the people living on the leading edge (or trailing edge) of the land masses would have been drown by the floods. The people living in the middle of the continent or above 3000 feet would not have been affected by the flooding.

So do you what to discuss a large local flood or are you still trying to defend a global flood?
 
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mzungu

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the KJV1611 Bible is the best and only true Bible, all the others have mistakes in them,
everyone around here thinks the Bible is true so we will as well, we don't want to be different do we? so please believe it.
The KJV was translated from the Hebrew and Greek texts. How can a translated version be more correct than the original version that it was translated from? Are you saying that prior to the KJV all bibles had mistakes? This is tantamount to saying "God made mistakes with the Bible prior to the KJV?

Dear me:doh:
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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The KJV was translated from the Hebrew and Greek texts. How can a translated version be more correct than the original version that it was translated from?
IIRC AV has claimed exactly that.


Are you saying that prior to the KJV all bibles had mistakes? This is tantamount to saying "God made mistakes with the Bible prior to the KJV?

Dear me:doh:
 
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AV1611VET

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When children are given their religions I should think they are also given a few do's and don'ts which might go something like this:
believe this because it's true and because it's what we all believe,
the Bible is true because the Bible says it's true,
don't ask silly questions, silly questions are questions contradicting the Bible, the Bible is never wrong,
if it's in the Bible it's true because it says so in the Bible and we don't go against the Bible, do we?
every other religion is wrong only our religion is right, remember that.
if in doubt about anything read your Bible because all the answers are in there somewhere,
you must always go to church and seek out the company of people of our faith,
don't make things up, leave that to the people who know what they're doing,
the KJV1611 Bible is the best and only true Bible, all the others have mistakes in them,
everyone around here thinks the Bible is true so we will as well, we don't want to be different do we? so please believe it.

Then again I could be wrong. [which is there to allow people to tell me that I am]
There's an easier way to express all of this: The Bible says it -- that settles it.
 
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AV1611VET

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The KJV was translated from the Hebrew and Greek texts. How can a translated version be more correct than the original version that it was translated from? Are you saying that prior to the KJV all bibles had mistakes? This is tantamount to saying "God made mistakes with the Bible prior to the KJV?

Dear me:doh:
Which statement is more correct?

  1. In the future, they'll be riding in horseless carriages.
  2. In the future, they'll be riding in automobiles.
 
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mzungu

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Which statement is more correct?

  1. In the future, they'll be riding in horseless carriages.
  2. In the future, they'll be riding in automobiles.
This one:

Matthew 5:18-19 (King James Version)


18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 
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Greg1234

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There is no evidence for the crustal shift refered to and tsunamis all around the world of the size mentioned would certainly have left much evidence of their occurance
Actually there are,

The Pleistocene Extinction
Paleontologists the world over know that something catastrophic happened to the large mammals roaming the world during the Pleistocene Epoch. Woolly mammoths, mastodons, toxodons, sabre-toothed tigers, woolly rhinos, giant ground sloths, and many other large Pleistocene animals are simply no longer with us. In fact, well over 200 species of animals (involving millions of individuals) totally disappeared at the end of the Pleistocene some 10,000-12,000 years ago in what is known to Paleontologists as the Pleistocene Extinction (Click for table).

Evidence of a Recent PoleShift - Part 1
[SIZE=-1]In Alaska thick frozen deposits of soil, boulder, plant and animal exist, commonly known as "muck". Prof. Frank C. Hibben of the University of New Mexico described these deposits:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]"In many places, Alaskan muck is packed with animal bones and debris in trainload lots. Bones of mammoths, mastodons, several kind of bison, horses, wolves, bears and lions tell a story of a faunal population. within this frozen mass lie the twisted parts of animals and trees intermingled with lenses of ice and layers of peat and mosses. It looks as though in the midst of some cataclysmic catastrophe of ten thousand years ago the whole Alaskan world of living animals and plants was suddenly frozen in mid-motion like a grim charade.twisted and torn trees are piled in splintered masses . at least four considerable layers of volcanic ash may be traced in these deposits, although they are extremely warped and distorted[/SIZE]

Ooparts & Ancient High Technology--The Boneyards IV
Woolly mammoths, woolly rhinoceros, giant armadillos, giant beavers, giant jaguars, giant ground sloths and scores of other entire species were all totally wiped out at the end of the Pleistocene. Massive piles of mastodon and sabre-toothed tiger bones were discovered in Florida (Valentine, 1969), while whole mastodons, toxodons, giant sloths and other animals were found in Venesuala quick-frozen among the mountain glaciers (Berlitz, 1969). All died on a global scale, at about the same time, circa. 10,000 B.C.

and if you read his link to "extinction of Cro-Magnan man 10,000 years ago you will see that it does not reference any such event because there was no "extinction of Cro-Magnan man. Cro-Magnans were modern humans and the term refers to the earliest modern humans known in Europe.
The link already states that Cro-Magnon man was a group of modern humans. They were given their names based on where they were found, not based on a Darwinian time line. There is a change worth noting here, whether they went extinct or had to migrate, which coincides with other geographic and ecological changes on the grand scale.

However this page is again referring local floods even if they do occur all around the globe in his "model".
The page is based on a cataclysmic event which reverberated around the globe in the form of mega disasters. One of the most predominant being a flood. This coincides with its effect on glacial bodies through melting
There were many large local floods around the earth at the end of the last ice age. Just not all at the same time as this page claims.
This isn't about a local flood. This was explained using references to a global fire.

that prevailed over all the mountains
We'll get to that. Cool your jets.
and killed all land animals not on the ark.
This was already given.

So do you what to discuss a large local flood or are you still trying to defend a global flood?
When you stop defending the global fire for a local fire as previously given
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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Actually there are,

The Pleistocene Extinction
Paleontologists the world over know that something catastrophic happened to the large mammals roaming the world during the Pleistocene Epoch. Woolly mammoths, mastodons, toxodons, sabre-toothed tigers, woolly rhinos, giant ground sloths, and many other large Pleistocene animals are simply no longer with us. In fact, well over 200 species of animals (involving millions of individuals) totally disappeared at the end of the Pleistocene some 10,000-12,000 years ago in what is known to Paleontologists as the Pleistocene Extinction (Click for table).
This extinction affected primarily the pleistocene megafauna. It not known how many centuries it took for these animals to die off. There was definitely climate change at the end of the last ice age and humans were also moving into North and South America at just about the time the extinctions began to occur. They have nothing to do with a "pole shift" or global flood.

Evidence of a Recent PoleShift - Part 1
[SIZE=-1]In Alaska thick frozen deposits of soil, boulder, plant and animal exist, commonly known as "muck". Prof. Frank C. Hibben of the University of New Mexico described these deposits:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Are you talking about permafrost?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]"In many places, Alaskan muck is packed with animal bones and debris in trainload lots. Bones of mammoths, mastodons, several kind of bison, horses, wolves, bears and lions tell a story of a faunal population. within this frozen mass lie the twisted parts of animals and trees intermingled with lenses of ice and layers of peat and mosses. It looks as though in the midst of some cataclysmic catastrophe of ten thousand years ago the whole Alaskan world of living animals and plants was suddenly frozen in mid-motion like a grim charade.twisted and torn trees are piled in splintered masses . at least four considerable layers of volcanic ash may be traced in these deposits, although they are extremely warped and distorted[/SIZE]
Ooparts & Ancient High Technology--The Boneyards IV
Woolly mammoths, woolly rhinoceros, giant armadillos, giant beavers, giant jaguars, giant ground sloths and scores of other entire species were all totally wiped out at the end of the Pleistocene. Massive piles of mastodon and sabre-toothed tiger bones were discovered in Florida (Valentine, 1969), while whole mastodons, toxodons, giant sloths and other animals were found in Venesuala quick-frozen among the mountain glaciers (Berlitz, 1969). All died on a global scale, at about the same time, circa. 10,000 B.C.
Frozen mammoths do not require a global catastrophe
CC361.2: Quick-frozen mammoths

The link already states that Cro-Magnon man was a group of modern humans. They were given their names based on where they were found, not based on a Darwinian time line. There is a change worth noting here, whether they went extinct or had to migrate, which coincides with other geographic and ecological changes on the grand scale.
The change is that archeologist started just calling them humans and not cro-magnon. They neither went extinct or migrated.
The page is based on a cataclysmic event which reverberated around the globe in the form of mega disasters.
It nonsense but even so it is not nonsensical enough to claim a global food.
One of the most predominant being a flood. This coincides with its effect on glacial bodies through melting
The glaciers had been melting for 10's of thousands of years prior to the Younger Dryas.
This isn't about a local flood.
The page is making up nonsense about giant tsunamis all around the world that never happened. Tsunamis such as described would have left massive geological evidence and none such exists. For instance lake Suigetsu in Japan is essentially at sea level. These worldwide tsunamis should have ripped through it. The continuous record of varves in the lake should have shown a great disturbance but none is there. There are also many other holocene lakes that have varve records going back 10's of thousands of years with no record of a global flood.
Lake varves.

This was explained using references to a global fire.

We'll get to that. Cool your jets.
This was already given.

When you stop defending the global fire for a local fire as previously given
I have already shown the irrelevance of your global fire nonsense to this discussion. I see no need to address it again.
120

The bottom line is that you still have provide no evidence of a global flood and have been totally unable to refute the many falsifications of a global flood.
 
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Greg1234

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This extinction affected primarily the pleistocene megafauna.
What does that have to do with anything? Flora and fauna were found.
[SIZE=-1]"In many places, Alaskan muck is packed with animal bones and debris in trainload lots. Bones of mammoths, mastodons, several kind of bison, horses, wolves, bears and lions tell a story of a faunal population. within this frozen mass lie the twisted parts of animals and trees intermingled with lenses of ice and layers of peat and mosses. It looks as though in the midst of some cataclysmic catastrophe of ten thousand years ago the whole Alaskan world of living animals and plants was suddenly frozen in mid-motion like a grim charade.twisted and torn trees are piled in splintered masses . at least four considerable layers of volcanic ash may be traced in these deposits, although they are extremely warped and distorted"[/SIZE]

And even if flora wasn't found, you could just have easily attributed that to spear, canoe and home building.
It not known how many centuries it took for these animals to die off.
It was an extinction through a cataclysmic event. Not a "dying off".

The Pleistocene Extinction
And the event was worldwide. The mammoths of Siberia became extinct about the same time as the giant rhinoceros of Europe; the mastodons of Alaska and the bison of Siberia ended simultaneously. The same is true of the Asian elephants and the American camels. The cause of these extinctions must be common to both hemispheres. If the coming of glacial conditions was gradual, it would not have cause the extinctions, because the various animals could have simply migrated to where conditions were better. What is seen here is total surprise, and uncontrolled violence (Leonard, 1979).

There was definitely climate change at the end of the last ice age and humans were also moving into North and South America at just about the time the extinctions began to occur.
I already said that.
They have nothing to do with a "pole shift" or global flood.
Actually they do.
[SIZE=-1]Are you talking about permafrost?[/SIZE]
Nope. It's more than that.

Permafrost - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In geology, permafrost, cryotic soil or permafrost soil is soil at or below the freezing point of water (0 °C or 32 °F) for two or more years.

Frozen mammoths do not require a global catastrophe
CC361.2: Quick-frozen mammoths
Ooparts & Ancient High Technology--The Boneyards IV
[SIZE=-1]To get to the bottom of the mystery scientists consulted experts in the deep freeze butchery industry. However instead of clearing things up they made them much more troublesome. Basically they said it was not possible to deep freeze a creature the size of a mammoth in the relative moderate temps of the arctic. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Basically if meat is frozen slowly at freezing temp crystals form in the cells of the flesh bursting the cells and dehydrating the meat. The butchers concluded no such process could have produced the deep frozen mammoth meat.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]To satisfactorily freeze a side of beef takes 30 minutes at -40 degrees Fahrenheit. To deep freeze a huge living warm blooded mammoth, insulated in thick fur, they estimated that temperatures below -150 degrees would be required. Temperatures so low have never been recorded in nature, not even in the artic. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]This has simply made all normal theories for the Beresovka mammoth that much more obsolete. To add to the mystery consider the climate needed for buttercups to grow. Buttercups enjoy temperate conditions with alternation sun and rain."[/SIZE]
The change is that archeologist started just calling them humans and not cro-magnon. They neither went extinct or migrated.
Inform your sources.

Fossil Hominids: Cro-Magnon Man
The Cro-Magnons lived in Europe between 35,000 and 10,000 years ago.
It nonsense but even so it is not nonsensical enough to claim a global food.
The glaciers had been melting for 10's of thousands of years prior to the Younger Dryas.
What is being documented here is a rapid deglaciation around that time.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...ec528278a9195c941c273dbe509411d2&searchtype=a
This early thinning of the ice sheets occurred during a time when summer insolation values were slowly rising but when pollen evidence south of the ice margins indicates cold, dry air masses. We infer that this rapid early ice disintegration (16,000–13,000 yr B.P.) was caused by oceanic mechanisms: (1) rising sea level, causing increased calving along ice margins; (2) the chilling of the sea-surface by icebergs and meltwater, reducing moisture extraction by the atmosphere and transport to the ice sheets; and (3) winter freezing of the low-salinity meltwater layer, suppressing local moisture extraction and the regional influx of moisture-bearing storms from lower latitudes in winter and hence starving the ice sheets. These oceanic feedback mechanisms were strongest from 16,000 to 13,000 yr B.P., and weaker but still active from that date until the end of deglaciation at 6000 yr B.P

AGU: A high‐resolution diatom record of the last deglaciation from the SE Norwegian Sea: Documentation of rapid climatic changes
The results indicate that the surface waters of the SE Norwegian Sea were seasonally ice free after 13,400 B.P. The Bølling/Allerød interstadial complex (13,200–11,200 B.P.) was a climatically unstable period with changing Arctic‐Subarctic conditions. This period was punctuated by four progressively more severe sea surface temperature (SST) minima: between 12,900–12,800 B.P. (BCP I); 12,500–12,400 B.P. (BCP II); 12,300–12,000 B.P. (OD I); and 11,800–11,500 B.P. (OD II). The Younger Dryas (YD) (11,200–10,200 B.P.) represents the severest and most prolonged cold episode of this series of climatic deteriorations

Collapse of the Hudson Bay ice center and glacio-isostatic rebound -- Andrews and Peltier 4 (2): 73 -- Geology
An ice-unloading model for Hudson Bay consistent with the rebound history of the Ottawa Islands requires collapse of the central dome of the Laurentide Ice Sheet between 12,000 and 10,000 B.P. Hudson Bay was then filled by a shallow ice shelf with ice streaming into the bay from ice centers located over Keewatin and Labrador. The observed rebound is fully consistent with a uniform mantle viscosity of 1022 P.

The page is making up nonsense about giant tsunamis all around the world that never happened. Tsunamis such as described would have left massive geological evidence and none such exists. For instance lake Suigetsu in Japan is essentially at sea level. These worldwide tsunamis should have ripped through it. The continuous record of varves in the lake should have shown a great disturbance but none is there. There are also many other holocene lakes that have varve records going back 10's of thousands of years with no record of a global flood.
Lake varves.
The Pleistocene Extinction
The evidence of the violence of nature combined with the stench of rotting carcasses was staggering. The ice fields containing these remains stretched for hundred of miles in every direction (Hibben, 1946). Trees and animals, layers of peat and mosses, twisted and mangled together like some giant mixer had jumbled them some 10,000 years ago, and then froze them into a solid mass (Sanderson, 1960). The evidence immediately suggests an enormous tidal wave which raged over the land, tumbling animals and vegetation within its mass, which was then quick-frozen. But the extinction is not limited to the Arctic.

As for your above argument, it's null. In regards to Japan and that area, this will be presented later.
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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What does that have to do with anything? Flora and fauna were found.
"In many places, Alaskan muck is packed with animal bones and debris in trainload lots. Bones of mammoths, mastodons, several kind of bison, horses, wolves, bears and lions tell a story of a faunal population. within this frozen mass lie the twisted parts of animals and trees intermingled with lenses of ice and layers of peat and mosses. It looks as though in the midst of some cataclysmic catastrophe of ten thousand years ago the whole Alaskan world of living animals and plants was suddenly frozen in mid-motion like a grim charade.twisted and torn trees are piled in splintered masses . at least four considerable layers of volcanic ash may be traced in these deposits, although they are extremely warped and distorted"
The only reference to this is to Hibben (1943)

In 1943, Hibben described a visit to Chinitna Bay on the west side of Cook Inlet in Alaska, where he reported finding Yuma-like projectile points like those found at the Clovis Site in New Mexico and a projectile point similar to those produced by the Folsom culture, who lived on the High Plains and adjacent regions 10,000 years ago.[9] In addition to the projectile points, he reported finding mammoth bones. A later investigation of the geology and geoarchaeology of Chinitna Bay using personal notes, photographs, and directions personally supply by Hibben successfully relocated the locations and strata from which the mammoth bones, Yuma-like projectile points, and projectile point "possibly affiliated with, Folsom" were reported. They found that the strata from in which Hibben reported finding Folsom- and Yuma-like projectile points and mammoths bones all accumulated during the Late Holocene in "a muddy, intertidal environment".[10] As result, they concluded that the projectile points are not associated with any Paleo-Indian cultures and the identification of the bones as being those of a mammoth is questionable.
So what there is one spot with an accumulation of bones in an intertidal environment, some of which may or may not have been mammoth bones.
And even if flora wasn't found, you could just have easily attributed that to spear, canoe and home building.
It was an extinction through a cataclysmic event. Not a "dying off".
Then why were so many species unaffected while the pleistocene megafauna died off?
The Pleistocene Extinction
And the event was worldwide. The mammoths of Siberia became extinct about the same time as the giant rhinoceros of Europe; the mastodons of Alaska and the bison of Siberia ended simultaneously. The same is true of the Asian elephants and the American camels.
Um, Asian elephants are not exinct.
The cause of these extinctions must be common to both hemispheres. If the coming of glacial conditions was gradual, it would not have cause the extinctions, because the various animals could have simply migrated to where conditions were better. What is seen here is total surprise, and uncontrolled violence (Leonard, 1979).
The pleistocene extinction occured after the receeding of the glaciers not after the coming of the glaciers.
I already said that.
Actually they do.
Nope. It's more than that.

Permafrost - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In geology, permafrost, cryotic soil or permafrost soil is soil at or below the freezing point of water (0 °C or 32 °F) for two or more years.

Ooparts & Ancient High Technology--The Boneyards IV

To get to the bottom of the mystery scientists consulted experts in the deep freeze butchery industry. However instead of clearing things up they made them much more troublesome. Basically they said it was not possible to deep freeze a creature the size of a mammoth in the relative moderate temps of the arctic.
Basically if meat is frozen slowly at freezing temp crystals form in the cells of the flesh bursting the cells and dehydrating the meat. The butchers concluded no such process could have produced the deep frozen mammoth meat.





To satisfactorily freeze a side of beef takes 30 minutes at -40 degrees Fahrenheit. To deep freeze a huge living warm blooded mammoth, insulated in thick fur, they estimated that temperatures below -150 degrees would be required. Temperatures so low have never been recorded in nature, not even in the artic.
This has simply made all normal theories for the Beresovka mammoth that much more obsolete. To add to the mystery consider the climate needed for buttercups to grow. Buttercups enjoy temperate conditions with alternation sun and rain."
This quick frozen mammoth nonsense was debunked by Farrand 50 years ago

Farrand, William Frozen Mammoths and Modern Geology, Science 133:729-735 (1961)
All the evidence now at hand supports the conclusions of previous workers that no catastrophic event was responsible for the death and preservation of the frozen woolly mammoths.The cadavers are unusual only in that they have been preserved by freezing;the demise of the animals, however, accords with uniformitarian concepts. The ratio of frozen specimens (around 39) to the probable total population (more
than 50,000) is of the order of magnitude expected among terrestrial mammals on the basis of chance burial.Furthermore, the occurrence of nearly whole carcasses is extremely rare (onlyfour have been found), in spite of the numerous expeditions for fossil ivory and other exploration in northern Siberia.

There is no direct evidence that any woolly mammoth froze to death. In fact, the healthy, robust condition of the cadavers and their full stomachs argue against death by slow freezing.On the other hand, the large size of their warm-blooded bodies is not compatible with sudden freezing. In addition,all the frozen specimens were rotten and, in most cases, had been somewhat mutilated by predators prior to freezing.
….
Histological examination of fat and flesh of the Berezovka
mammoth showed "deep penetrating chemical alteration as a result of the very slow decay," and even the frozen ground surrounding a mammoth had the same putrid odor, implying decay before freezing

Posted by FB:RE Cro-Magnan man
The change is that archeologist started just calling them humans and not cro-magnon. They neither went extinct or migrated
Inform your sources.
Fossil Hominids: Cro-Magnon Man
The Cro-Magnons lived in Europe between 35,000 and 10,000 years ago.
Read the site again. Try for comprehension this time. Paleolithic people continously lived in Europe from 35,000 years ago to the present. Those who lived there from 10,000 years ago to the present are simply not called Cro-Magnan
What is being documented here is a rapid deglaciation around that time.

ScienceDirect - Quaternary Research : The mode and mechanism of the last deglaciation: Oceanic evidence
This early thinning of the ice sheets occurred during a time when summer insolation values were slowly rising but when pollen evidence south of the ice margins indicates cold, dry air masses. We infer that this rapid early ice disintegration (16,000–13,000 yr B.P.) was caused by oceanic mechanisms: (1) rising sea level, causing increased calving along ice margins; (2) the chilling of the sea-surface by icebergs and meltwater, reducing moisture extraction by the atmosphere and transport to the ice sheets; and (3) winter freezing of the low-salinity meltwater layer, suppressing local moisture extraction and the regional influx of moisture-bearing storms from lower latitudes in winter and hence starving the ice sheets. These oceanic feedback mechanisms were strongest from 16,000 to 13,000 yr B.P., and weaker but still active from that date until the end of deglaciation at 6000 yr B.P
AGU: A high‐resolution diatom record of the last deglaciation from the SE Norwegian Sea: Documentation of rapid climatic changes
The results indicate that the surface waters of the SE Norwegian Sea were seasonally ice free after 13,400 B.P. The Bølling/Allerød interstadial complex (13,200–11,200 B.P.) was a climatically unstable period with changing Arctic‐Subarctic conditions. This period was punctuated by four progressively more severe sea surface temperature (SST) minima: between 12,900–12,800 B.P. (BCP I); 12,500–12,400 B.P. (BCP II); 12,300–12,000 B.P. (OD I); and 11,800–11,500 B.P. (OD II). The Younger Dryas (YD) (11,200–10,200 B.P.) represents the severest and most prolonged cold episode of this series of climatic deteriorations

Collapse of the Hudson Bay ice center and glacio-isostatic rebound -- Andrews and Peltier 4 (2): 73 -- Geology
An ice-unloading model for Hudson Bay consistent with the rebound history of the Ottawa Islands requires collapse of the central dome of the Laurentide Ice Sheet between 12,000 and 10,000 B.P. Hudson Bay was then filled by a shallow ice shelf with ice streaming into the bay from ice centers located over Keewatin and Labrador. The observed rebound is fully consistent with a uniform mantle viscosity of 1022 P.
It looks like rapid means a few thousand years in this context, not a single catastrophic global flood.
The Pleistocene Extinction
The evidence of the violence of nature combined with the stench of rotting carcasses was staggering. The ice fields containing these remains stretched for hundred of miles in every direction (Hibben, 1946). Trees and animals, layers of peat and mosses, twisted and mangled together like some giant mixer had jumbled them some 10,000 years ago, and then froze them into a solid mass (Sanderson, 1960). The evidence immediately suggests an enormous tidal wave which raged over the land, tumbling animals and vegetation within its mass, which was then quick-frozen. But the extinction is not limited to the Arctic.
I actually remember reading Sanderson's Saturday Evening Post article that this quoted here when in came out in 1960. It impressed me at the time but I hadn't seen the Farrand paper of course. I do note a seriously out of context quote of Farrand on your link.

As for your above argument, it's null. In regards to Japan and that area, this will be presented later.
You still have presented no evidence for a global flood. We don't know exactly what caused the great die-off of pleistocene megafauna but we do know it was not a global flood.
 
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Greg1234

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The only reference to this is to Hibben (1943)

So what there is one spot with an accumulation of bones in an intertidal environment, some of which may or may not have been mammoth bones.

May or may not have been? Unfortunately this is not the only spot in the world nor is Hibben the only person in the world.

Spatial-temporal features of the Pleistocene megafauna extinction in Northern Asia: an overview



Then why were so many species unaffected while the pleistocene megafauna died off?
Some say it is the climate change,

Climate Change Caused Extinction of Big Ice Age Mammals, Scientist Says
Grayson points to climate shifts during the late Pleistocene and related changes in weather and vegetation patterns as the likely culprits in the demise of North America's megafauna.
While others blame man,

Humans to Blame for Ice Age Extinctions, Study Says
Steadman and his colleagues argue that megafauna species on the American continents, having evolved in an environment without humans, may have been particularly vulnerable to the sudden appearance of big game hunters.

But neither has to be fully chosen. The change in climate due to the cataclysm coincides with the migratory patterns and culture fusions as noted earlier. This line sums it up,

Humans to Blame for Ice Age Extinctions, Study Says
Climate change may have been a factor in pushing the animals to extinction, Steadman says, but it took humans to push them over the edge.

The type of migration depicted earlier would in fact promote the rapid depletion and even accelerate it.
Um, Asian elephants are not exinct.
The mammoths in Siberia may be what is being alluded to here.

Bring Back the Elephants - Tools Ideas Environment - Whole Earth Catalog
We are keenly aware that living African ( Loxodonta africana ) and Asian (Elephas maximus ) elephants are not conspecific with fossil mammoths ( Mammuthus) or other native New World Proboscidea. But all are in the same family, and some taxonomists have considered Elephas and Mammuthus to be quite close, even congeneric;

Spatial-temporal features of the Pleistocene megafauna extinction in Northern Asia: an overview

The corpus of 14C dates for several megafaunal species in Siberia include hundreds of values, with largest amount available for woolly mammoth (ca. 580), and less for other species: woolly rhinoceros – ca. 45; Pleistocene bison – ca. 75; and Pleistocene horse – ca. 80.
The pleistocene extinction occured after the receeding of the glaciers not after the coming of the glaciers.
'
It is a two fold effect.
This quick frozen mammoth nonsense was debunked by Farrand 50 years ago

Farrand, William Frozen Mammoths and Modern Geology, Science 133:729-735 (1961)
All the evidence now at hand supports the conclusions of previous workers that no catastrophic event was responsible for the death and preservation of the frozen woolly mammoths.The cadavers are unusual only in that they have been preserved by freezing;the demise of the animals, however, accords with uniformitarian concepts. The ratio of frozen specimens (around 39) to the probable total population (more
than 50,000) is of the order of magnitude expected among terrestrial mammals on the basis of chance burial.Furthermore, the occurrence of nearly whole carcasses is extremely rare (onlyfour have been found), in spite of the numerous expeditions for fossil ivory and other exploration in northern Siberia.

There is no direct evidence that any woolly mammoth froze to death. In fact, the healthy, robust condition of the cadavers and their full stomachs argue against death by slow freezing.On the other hand, the large size of their warm-blooded bodies is not compatible with sudden freezing. In addition,all the frozen specimens were rotten and, in most cases, had been somewhat mutilated by predators prior to freezing.
….
Histological examination of fat and flesh of the Berezovka
mammoth showed "deep penetrating chemical alteration as a result of the very slow decay," and even the frozen ground surrounding a mammoth had the same putrid odor, implying decay before freezing
The above does not address the point being made. For one, we already know that it was rotten.

Ooparts & Ancient High Technology--The Boneyards IV
The evidence of the violence of nature combined with the stench of rotting carcasses was staggering.

The extinction of the woolly mammoth: was it a quick freeze?
1. The number of frozen carcasses, in spite of under-reporting, is very small compared to the number of mammoth bones that underwent normal decay and are entombed in the permafrost.104,105
2. The carcasses are often partially decayed with fly pupae and display signs of scavenging,3,79,106,107 not expected during a quick-freeze.
3. The unique condition of several of the carcasses, such as the famished condition of Dima and the headless Selerikhan horse (Figure 5),3,83 indicate some time elapsed before final burial.
4. For some of the carcasses, death appears to have occurred at different times of the year.83,108 A quick-freeze during the Flood, especially as advocated by some creationists, would have occurred in a single instant.
5. The characteristics of the permafrost that entombs the carcasses and bones, show that it was not dumped quickly from above. It is doubtful that ice wedges would form during a quick drop of ice or hail from above.


The quickness being referred to here is the change in temperature. They were grazers. What is seen does not indicate the type of gradual change where a migration would suffice but instead the onset of a rather sudden change.



The extinction of the woolly mammoth: was it a quick freeze?
Carcasses and bones of woolly mammoths in Siberia, Alaska, and the Yukon have been difficult to explain. The mammoth remains are abundant over the mid and high latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere, except in formerly glaciated areas. There are probably millions of them buried in the permafrost of Siberia alone. A wide variety of other mammals, large and small, accompanied the mammoth. Many of these animals are grazers, implying that the paleoenvironment of Beringia was a grassland with a wide diversity of plants. This diversity of plants and animals points to a longer growing season with milder winters and very little permafrost.
This paleoenvironment is contrary to what is observed in Beringia today, with its very cold winters and boggy substrate in summer. Scientists constrained by uniformitarian thinking seem to face conundrum after conundrum in regard to the life and death of the woolly mammoth in Beringia, as well as by the ice age itself. A uniformitarian ice age climate would have been even colder still. It is difficult to conceive that the woolly mammoth and all the other animals could have lived in Siberia under these conditions. It is obvious the uniformitarian assumption does not apply.

Mass extinction: Why did half of N. America's large mammals disappear 40,000 to 10,000 years ago?
A particular issue that has also contributed to this debate focuses on the chronology of extinctions. The existing fossil record is incomplete, making it more difficult to tell whether or not the extinctions occurred in a gradual process, or took place as a synchronous event. In addition, it was previously unclear whether species are missing from the terminal Pleistocene because they had already gone extinct or because they simply have not been found yet.
However, new findings from Faith indicate that the extinction is best characterized as a sudden event that took place between 13.8 and 11.4 thousand years ago. Faith's findings support the idea that this mass extinction was due to human overkill, comet impact or other rapid events rather than a slow attrition.
"The massive extinction coincides precisely with human arrival on the continent, abrupt climate change, and a possible extraterrestrial impact event" said Faith. "It remains possible that any one of these or all, contributed to the sudden extinctions. We now have a better understanding of when the extinctions took place and the next step is to figure out why."
Posted by FB:RE Cro-Magnan man
The change is that archeologist started just calling them humans and not cro-magnon. They neither went extinct or migrated
Read the site again. Try for comprehension this time. Paleolithic people continously lived in Europe from 35,000 years ago to the present. Those who lived there from 10,000 years ago to the present are simply not called Cro-Magnan
They are referring to a time period.
Cro-Magnons - Why Don't We Call Them Cro-Magnon Any More?

Cro-Magnon is the informal word once used by scientists to refer to the people who were living alongside Neanderthals at the end of the last ice age (ca. 35,000-10,000 years ago).

Even if they changed their names, it is still [insert new name] living alongside neanderthals 35000-10000 years ago. Further, an effect on them is recorded.

Cro-Magnon Europe
The end of the ice age brought about a change in the European environment which would have affected Cro-Magnon people. Europe became forested, which caused a sharp reduction in the number and size of herds of migratory animals. The number of settlement sites dropped and their size also seems to have been smaller.
It looks like rapid means a few thousand years in this context, not a single catastrophic global flood.
Rapid deglaciation within that period.
You still have presented no evidence for a global flood. We don't know exactly what caused the great die-off of pleistocene megafauna but we do know it was not a global flood.
Irrelevant. You still have not understood the allusion to the global fire.
 
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Faith is not in the business of providing evidence. They are contradictory statements. For the meaning of faith is to believe with out evidence.

Is this yet another sock puppet? It makes any polls in this area redundant because the many sock puppets of one is the majority.


Roman 10;17
So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hebrews 11;1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.


 
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Inan3

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Evolution is taught because it the foundation of biology, the issue of God does not (usually) come up in undergraduate biology courses as it really has no bearing on the topic.

Are you kidding?? You can hardly even hear the subject without the issue of God coming up. Although, I will give you a "perhaps" for the undergrauate biology course you speak of, I am skeptical. It is no secret that MOST of scienceville has to add the issue of God to the subject of evolution. BTW evolution is not the "foundation" of biology, either, God is!! Without God there would not be either of the subjects.
 
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chris4243

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Are you kidding?? You can hardly even hear the subject without the issue of God coming up. Although, I will give you a "perhaps" for the undergrauate biology course you speak of, I am skeptical. It is no secret that MOST of scienceville has to add the issue of God to the subject of evolution. BTW evolution is not the "foundation" of biology, either, God is!! Without God there would not be either of the subjects.

I think he meant that evolution is the foundation of our understanding about biology. If God created life, He could only have done it via an evolutionary algorithm. Creationism contributes nothing to our understanding of biology, and it would be blasphemous to say it does.
 
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Lion Hearted Man

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Are you kidding?? You can hardly even hear the subject without the issue of God coming up. Although, I will give you a "perhaps" for the undergrauate biology course you speak of, I am skeptical. It is no secret that MOST of scienceville has to add the issue of God to the subject of evolution. BTW evolution is not the "foundation" of biology, either, God is!! Without God there would not be either of the subjects.

If you actually took a college biology course, you'd know this is rubbish. My general and evolutionary biology courses did not mention God at all. Why would they need to? The class is about biology, not God! Most of my biology professors were religious, but they didn't talk about God or their religious beliefs.

Saying that "God is the foundation of biology" is a worthless explanation because it explains nothing. Even if God did create the world and everything in it, evolution is a useful principle because it has powerful predictive capability. Saying that "God did it" does not offer us insight into how the world works. If anything, it leaves us satisfied with nonexplanations, which is the antithesis of science.
 
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