Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments?

[from scratch]

We are under the Law of Moses or we are not. Paul teaches "not". Jesus teaches "not".

HOWEVER, this does not mean that the 10 commandments and the other 603 (why do we distinguish?) are not useful for teaching and rebuking and training in righteousness.

HOWEVER, we must understand that the commands of Jesus and the Beatitudes are much more difficult to follow that the Law of Moses ever was.

 

[from scratch]

You wrote: "It is Scripture which states, concerning law-keeping, that unless you're doing it perfectly, you're not doing it at all. "

This is what you got out of James? In verse 1:22 he encourages you to be a "doer of the word". In verse 2:9 he talks about you being "convicted by the law as transgressors". So how then do you recon that James desires you to disregard the law. Especially when he returns to the subject of sin and the law.

So what should a doer be doing? Is this a reference to keeping the law? I don't think so. Just read the rest of chapter 2 from verse 12 to the end and one won't find the law even mentioned. In fact even a lie (for full details see in Joshua 2) is called works that justify. How can that be? Now should I also mention Abraham who lied and yet was called righteous? Am I saying that lying is n't sin? NO! I'm asking thought provoking questions for the purpose of discussion.

 

[from scratch]

It absolutely does. None of them say that the ten commandments are abolished. It also contains Mat 5: 17-18 Rev. 22: 14 Rom 5 and 7 and many others that states that the ten commandments are still God's requirements for us to keep by the in dwelling His Holy Spirit. Is that not what Gal. 5 states?

Nope Galatians 5 doesn't promote keeping the 10 Cs. It very specifically states led by the Spirit and not led by the law. And just so I'm not beat for an improper quote, please note that isn't indended as one. My statement is intended as commentary on the verse. Here is the verse - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

My Bible also contains the following in Luke 24:44 - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me. This limits Mat 5:17-18 to prophecies concerning Jesus. Jesus covers end time prophecy in Mat 24.

 

[from scratch]

Do you regard God's ten commandments "just a set of rules"? God's own commandments to us?
I suppose that rules are meant to be broken.
You know that no christain can claim Christ and violate the ten commandments. That is a fact. How do you then reconcile that with Abolishing then?

I think I recall a thread saying the 10 Cs were issued to be broken. I think Romans 11:32 really supports that very idea extremely well.

 

[Lysimachus]

Is that what Jesus said? Jesus didn't quote any of the 10 Cs. Could that mean there is a greater commandment than any of the 10 Cs? I think if one checks up on me that they'll find Jesus quoted Deut 6 somehitng.

It's very simple from scratch.

The commandment of love is the basis for everything. EVERYTHING! The Ten Commandments are simply those foundational principles of the carrying out of love.

Think of a Temple. A Temple has a foundation, and the core of that foundation is Jesus Christ.

The Ten Commandments are simply the Foundation. The Corner Stone is Jesus (the embodiment of love). Everything is built on this foundation held by love.

Two Commandments of Love (Jesus) > Ten Commandments > All the laws

And Jesus did allude to the Ten Commandments as necessary elsewhere:

"And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is] none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (Matthew 19:16-18)

Mark's version says:
"Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother." (Mark 10:19)

Luke's version says:
"Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother." (Luke 18:20)

It doesn't take a Ph.D, from scratch to see that Jesus is clearly alluding to the Ten Commandments. Jesus is meeting up with this younger ruler for the FIRST time, so this ruler was not even aware of Christ's "laws of love" yet. He knew the Ten Commandments. And Jesus said that if he was to enter life, he needed to KEEP the commandments!

You may try and argue by saying that Jesus mentioned nothing of the Sabbath. But guess what? He also mentioned nothing about not worshiping idols, or not taking God's name in vain.

The point?

Since when does Jesus have to quote all 10 commandments to make a point about obedience?

Jesus is clearly revealing the continued importance of the Ten Commandments.

Unfortunately, the Antinomian Christians also like to pull a fast one on us and say "But Jesus didn't die yet! So that's why He said that to the ruler". What absurd thinking.

That's like saying Jesus should have said: "Rich Young Ruler! Keep the commandments...and following these [lists commandments], but no worries, because in about a year, I will fulfill these laws for you, and then you no longer have to keep them!"

LOL, what absolute lunacy! It just BLOWS my mind how Christians can continue to rationalize their way of having to keep all 10 Commandments.

This is part of prophecy!

Just think from scratch, you are fulfilling prophecy, because this battle that we are having right now is part of the great controversy between good and evil. The Devil is deluding Christians into learning the arts of how to distort the scriptures so that the Devil will have them ready to muster ALL the energy on God's last-day people who love God, keep His commandments, and have the faith of Jesus. And this includes keeping the Sabbath.

Satan's NUMBER ONE GOAL has been to destroy God's Law. And He has deluded MULTITUDES into thinking that the Ten Commandments have been abolished.

Dare I say just what destination awaits such individuals who wish to destroy God's eternal law, for which the original copy of these Tables reside in the Ark of God's Testament in Heaven: Revelation 11:19; 15:5.

 

[Elder 111]

Nope Galatians 5 doesn't promote keeping the 10 Cs. It very specifically states led by the Spirit and not led by the law. And just so I'm not beat for an improper quote, please note that isn't indended as one. My statement is intended as commentary on the verse. Here is the verse - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

My Bible also contains the following in Luke 24:44 - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me. This limits Mat 5:17-18 to prophecies concerning Jesus. Jesus covers end time prophecy in Mat 24.

I have asked already what does under the law mean.
It is not reasonable to accept that under the law means keeping the law.
If I am not required to keep the law then I should be able to have another God. Do not tell me that I can not do that as a christian and still tell me that I am not suppose the keep the commandments. There is something absolutely wrong with that.
Limiting Mat 5:17-18 as you did is totally not Holy. Why? Why do that?

 

[Elder 111]

I think I recall a thread saying the 10 Cs were issued to be broken. I think Romans 11:32 really supports that very idea extremely well.

Why Jesus then exclude those who break it Rev 22:14.

 

[Elder 111]

Why sinners be destroyed? For not having faith in Jesus or for breaking His law?
The logic I have seen here can only come from deluded persons. If I say that you can steal murder or forget God you say no. Yet you tell me that the commands that uphold such is removed. How on earth can that make sense? It either is or it is not.
Who here would stand before God and escape judgment with this? Who seriously believe that?
Father this is my child, he believes in Me. He believes that My law that say thou shall not kill is abolished, but he is OK. This one killed He should be burnt to death. He had no regard for my law. Oops I forgot I abolished the law. Everybody come in, sorry got confused for a moment.
How far are we willing to carry this nonsense?

 

[Lionroot]

How far are we willing to carry this nonsense?

Those who believe they are above the law will never stop. They love their sin more than they love God.


1 John 5:3
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

Daniel 9:4
4 I prayed to the Lord my God and made confession, saying, "O Lord, the great and awesome God, who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments,

 

[cyberlizard]

Nope Galatians 5 doesn't promote keeping the 10 Cs. It very specifically states led by the Spirit and not led by the law. And just so I'm not beat for an improper quote, please note that isn't indended as one. My statement is intended as commentary on the verse. Here is the verse - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

My Bible also contains the following in Luke 24:44 - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me. This limits Mat 5:17-18 to prophecies concerning Jesus. Jesus covers end time prophecy in Mat 24.

the problem we have with this post is that those who are led by the spirit are not under the law... but conversely, if you are being led by the Spirit and walking by the Spirit, you will not break the commandments anyway. If the Spirit leads you to break them we have a serious issue on our hands in which God has changed his mind about holiness and is leading you into sin (defined as transgression of the law - according to Paul).


Steve

 

[MamaZ]

Those who believe they are above the law will never stop. They love their sin more than they love God.


1 John 5:3
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

Daniel 9:4
4 I prayed to the Lord my God and made confession, saying, "O Lord, the great and awesome God, who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments,

and with this post we see in full view one of the 10 being broken and even using scripture to back up the sin.
Thou shall not bear false witness. The old addage of do as I say and not as I do comes to mind. This goes to show that the 10 can be a burden because now according to scripture if you break even one then you are guilty of breaking them all. Meaning that if one bears false witness they are also guilty of adulty, murder ect.
Stating that we love sin more than we love God is false witness. They even bear false witness against Christ. In fact they wanted to kill Him because He did not do as they thought He should and felt that He was leading people away from the law and the elders. We love Him because He first loved us and it is His love in us that spurs us to the greatest commandments ever. Love God and neighbor. We love with the Love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the HS. IT is His love that we are to love with and not that of our own, making our works something to boast about. For love never boasts. It is never rude. It is kind and gentle. It believeth all things. Never seeks its own. Love goes beyond do not do this or do that. Love covers a multitude of sins. So if one is going to preach the 10 then one must be able to live them perfectly. Remember the woman caught in adultry? Jesus did not spew you love sin and not me. He said neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more. My question is where is the man who committed the very same sin.

 

[from scratch]

Why Jesus then exclude those who break it Rev 22:14.

The people referred to in Rev 22:14 aren't those who keep the 10 Cs. I think the problem is definition and application of the word commandments. This has ben discussed more than once and just tossed aside. Is the problem a demand to take the same beliefs as you? They simply can't be supported by the NT Scripture which is about the NC. Jesus even said so in Mat 26:28, MK 14:24 and LK 22:20.

 

[from scratch]

It's very simple from scratch.

The commandment of love is the basis for everything. EVERYTHING! The Ten Commandments are simply those foundational principles of the carrying out of love.

Think of a Temple. A Temple has a foundation, and the core of that foundation is Jesus Christ.

The Ten Commandments are simply the Foundation. The Corner Stone is Jesus (the embodiment of love). Everything is built on this foundation held by love.

Two Commandments of Love (Jesus) > Ten Commandments > All the laws

And Jesus did allude to the Ten Commandments as necessary elsewhere:

"And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is] none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (Matthew 19:16-18)

Please note the question being asked here. This is salvation by works and not redemption. This is self trust, not faith in God. We know that none have ever been able to keep the commandments according to Scripture. Check Ps 14:3, 53:3 since Paul hadn't come along to write Romans 3:10, 12, 23. Jesus gave the foolish man the correct answer he ask for. The answer was to do the impossible. Romans 11:32 states that God made the law to charge and show mercy. Yes the 10 Cs were meant to be broken. Name any except Jesus (God) who has kept them in the last 6,000 years. There are none or the Bible promotes a falsehood sinning against itself. This certainly doesn't give me hope that I'll be the first to break th cycle of sin in my flesh. Surely there is one in a million from your church that has succeded. In the civilized world I know of no one who doesn't do business every sabbath.

Mark's version says:
"Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother." (Mark 10:19)

Luke's version says:
"Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother." (Luke 18:20)

Both are the same incident mentioned in Mat 19 above.

It doesn't take a Ph.D, from scratch to see that Jesus is clearly alluding to the Ten Commandments. Jesus is meeting up with this younger ruler for the FIRST time, so this ruler was not even aware of Christ's "laws of love" yet. He knew the Ten Commandments. And Jesus said that if he was to enter life, he needed to KEEP the commandments!

By this one doesn't need Jesus. He even said one can secure eternal life without Him by keeping the 10 Cs. Then why did Jesus die? How then can it be claimed that is how one is saved? I see that there must be 2 different ways to salvation. I simply don't buy that. Gal 5:4 says it is one or the other. The law nowhere promises eternal life.

You may try and argue by saying that Jesus mentioned nothing of the Sabbath. But guess what? He also mentioned nothing about not worshiping idols, or not taking God's name in vain.

I have been told that such was a given. If this is true then how is thou shalt not murder, lie, steal or commit adultery also a given? So I ask is Jesus' point really keeping the
law? Or is Jesus saying there is nothing you can do to secure eternal life through any effort of your own. Certainly not what Jesus told Nicodemus, is it? Nicodemus had a different atitude. Are the Gospels reliable? I think so!! Do they conflict? I could never agree to such and atrocious statement.

Since when does Jesus have to quote all 10 commandments to make a point about obedience?

I don't think that is what Jesus is saying in the least. See above about an impossible task and read Ps 14:3, 53:3.

Jesus is clearly revealing the continued importance of the Ten Commandments.

Nope as discussed above.

Unfortunately, the Antinomian Christians also like to pull a fast one on us and say "But Jesus didn't die yet! So that's why He said that to the ruler". What absurd thinking.

Who are the antinomian Christians you refer to? The Christian is subject to the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. This law makes them free from the law of sin and death. This is the same law mentioned in II Cor 3:7 which is engraved in stone. Is there anything besides the 10 Cs engraved in stone? Who's trying to pull a fast one here?Oh my could I ever get into trouble here?

That's like saying Jesus should have said: "Rich Young Ruler! Keep the commandments...and following these[lists commandments], but no worries, because in about a year, I will fulfill these laws for you, and then you no longer have to keep them!"

And just like the rich young ruller one will walk away sorrowful.

LOL, what absolute lunacy! It just BLOWS my mind how Christians can continue to rationalize their way of having to keep all 10 Commandments.

The above statement/accusation really adds proof and validity to the claims made. Why can't I just throw it back at you without getting into trouble?

This is part of prophecy!

Just think from scratch, you are fulfilling prophecy, because this battle that we are having right now is part of the great controversy between good and evil. The Devil is deluding Christians into learning the arts of how to distort the scriptures so that the Devil will have them ready to muster ALL the energy on God's last-day people who love God, keep His commandments, and have the faith of Jesus. And this includes keeping the Sabbath.

Nope I stand on Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8:6-12 and Jesus testimony in Mat 26:28, MK 14:24 and LK 22:20.

Satan's NUMBER ONE GOAL has been to destroy God's Law. And He has deluded MULTITUDES into thinking that the Ten Commandments have been abolished.

LK 16:16, Gal 3:19, Jer 31:31-34. I'd be very careful who I was saying destroys God's law. None of the verses I cited give credit to my enemy, satan.

Dare I say just what destination awaits such individuals who wish to destroy God's eternal law, for which the original copy of these Tables reside in the Ark of God's Testament in Heaven: Revelation 11:19; 15:5.

Er well what came out of the tabernacle of the testimony that was opened? The stone tablets? How bout 7 angels. Sure sounds like angels living in the ark of the covenant if that is what you wish to say is being referred to in 15:5.

 

[from scratch]

I have asked already what does under the law mean.

How many times must I answer this? I have given the definitions of the word under which support my simple statement usually found in ( ) as subject or obligated to. All lingusitic reference material agrees with that statement.

It is not reasonable to accept that under the law means keeping the law.

Why is this? Isn't keeping the sabbath a requirement of the law? How isn't that keeping the law? Where is it a requirement in the NT/NC?

If I am not required to keep the law then I should be able to have another God. Do not tell me that I can not do that as a christian and still tell me that I am not suppose the keep the commandments. There is something absolutely wrong with that.

What then is a Christian? Wouldn't that mean that those who don't keep the sabbath aren't Christian? Isn't that an obligation to the law?
Limiting Mat 5:17-18 as you did is totally not Holy. Why? Why do that?[/quote]I didn't limit Mat 5:17-18. Jesus did. Take it up with Him. I'm not responsible for the actions or words of Jesus.

 

[from scratch]

Why Jesus then exclude those who break it Rev 22:14.

It comes back to a definition and application problem for me. I think the cited Scripture is misused.

 

[from scratch]

Why sinners be destroyed? For not having faith in Jesus or for breaking His law?
The logic I have seen here can only come from deluded persons. If I say that you can steal murder or forget God you say no. Yet you tell me that the commands that uphold such is removed. How on earth can that make sense? It either is or it is not.

Please read all of 5 - Galatians 5 that is.

Who here would stand before God and escape judgment with this? Who seriously believe that?

me!! John 5:24 I won't be standing before God over my sins. Notice I didn't need Paul and referred to the words of Jesus my Saviour/Redeemer who purchased me with His own blood Eph 1:14. My name is written in the Book of Life. It will be a roll call judgement because God sees Jesus when He looks at me. Ah such wonderful eye glasses!!

Father this is my child, he believes in Me. He believes that My law that say thou shall not kill is abolished, but he is OK. This one killed He should be burnt to death. He had no regard for my law. Oops I forgot I abolished the law. Everybody come in, sorry got confused for a moment.
How far are we willing to carry this nonsense?

Is it OK to mock the truth?

 

[Rajni]

[FONT=verdana,sans-serif] I am not discussing 613 laws. I am dealing with the 10 commandments. [/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]The "whole" law contains both. James 2:10 tells us what happens if we attempt to live by the whole law and yet stumble in one point.
[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]The 10 commandments were not treated the same as the other laws by God. [/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]Of course they were. He commanded them, and that should be enough for as long as they were in effect. [/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]Why should we? Should we lie. 10 Should we steal? 10 should we have another God? 10. [/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,sans-serif] Explain to me how we can keep these as christian and say the 10 are abolished. [/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]Elder, this has been explained to you already. You're repeating yourself. See posts #347 and #419 where I addressed the subject of abolishing previously.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]We should violate them, you should never another person for doing wrong. never! For there is no standard of right doing without the law.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]I'm not saying we should deliberately do crimes. I'm saying that, in God's estimation (the only estimation that matters), we are not obeying the law at all if we stumble in even one point.

The Law-yers emit a certain pride in their law-keeping, not realizing that they don't keep it at all in God's sight. For the pride issue, take a look at Lionroot's demonstration of that in his post #[/FONT]569[FONT=verdana,sans-serif] where he says, "Those who believe they are above the law will never stop. They love their sin more than they love God." It's that whole patting oneself on the back for being such a good commandment-keeper while the rest of the world is just wallowing in sin. Oy, the drama of it all! [/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]What's hysterical about that is that they're not obeying the law at all, because humans will inevitably mess up here and there, which voids their Commandment Keeper™ status entirely. Again, see James 2:10, a verse which isn't going away anytime soon, sorry. [/FONT]

What is your reply to #521 and 522

[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]521 proves my point. Humans cannot obey the whole law perfectly. 522 indicates to me that the fulfillment of the law is indeed done in Jesus.

.
[/FONT]

 

[RefCath]

Christians should keep the Decalogue:

Romans 8:1-4 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

Galatians 5:13-14 "You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”"

Ephesians 6:1-3 "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. “Honor your father and mother”—which is the first commandment with a promise— “so that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth.”"

Hebrews 8:10 "I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people."

 

[Lysimachus]

Please note the question being asked here. This is salvation by works and not redemption. This is self trust, not faith in God. We know that none have ever been able to keep the commandments according to Scripture. Check Ps 14:3, 53:3 since Paul hadn't come along to write Romans 3:10, 12, 23. Jesus gave the foolish man the correct answer he ask for. The answer was to do the impossible. Romans 11:32 states that God made the law to charge and show mercy.

Where in the passage is Jesus saying that it is okay to break the commandments? The only thrust of the message being given is that Christ was showing the Rich Young Ruler that he needed to do more than just keep the commandments. It has to be heart-felt, the heart must be regenerated, and you have to be willing to give all that you have.

You have not convinced me that the ruler could purposely break the commandments and be saved. I find this concept nowhere alluded to in scriptures. Willful transgression clearly spells out death. (Heb 10:26)

Yes the 10 Cs were meant to be broken. Name any except Jesus (God) who has kept them in the last 6,000 years.

Just amazing. I am right now in the process of wondering if perhaps I'm having an aneurysm. The Ten Commandments were "meant to be broken". Brother, while it is true that nobody except Jesus has kept them perfectly, that does not mean the Ten Commandments were meant to be WILFULLY broken! Because of man's weaknesses and infirmities, we all fall short from the glory of God. But this "falling short" is by no means to be equated with willful transgression, and rebellion. Those who attack the Ten Commandments and try to justify why they don't even need to try to keep the Sabbath are not those just "falling short". They are those who are willfully violating it, thinking it is okay to purposely break the Ten Commandments and still go to heaven.

And by no means will this mentality carry such a person to the pearly gates, as it is this very mentality that reveals the heart--whether they are right with God or not. A true seeker for truth, and one who longs to please God, will do all in their God-given strength to be obedient. They will not try to quibble with God's word and try to see how they can "get out of having to obey".

There are none or the Bible promotes a falsehood sinning against itself. This certainly doesn't give me hope that I'll be the first to break th cycle of sin in my flesh. Surely there is one in a million from your church that has succeded. In the civilized world I know of no one who doesn't do business every sabbath.Both are the same incident mentioned in Mat 19 above.By this one doesn't need Jesus. He even said one can secure eternal life without Him by keeping the 10 Cs. Then why did Jesus die? How then can it be claimed that is how one is saved? I see that there must be 2 different ways to salvation. I simply don't buy that. Gal 5:4 says it is one or the other. The law nowhere promises eternal life.I have been told that such was a given. If this is true then how is thou shalt not murder, lie, steal or commit adultery also a given? So I ask is Jesus' point really keeping the
law? Or is Jesus saying there is nothing you can do to secure eternal life through any effort of your own.

I do not believe Jesus, however, is teaching willful transgression. From Scratch, I will confess, I do not keep the Ten Commandments perfectly. I'm a wretched sinner, and salvation only comes through Jesus Christ and Faith alone. But this salvation will only come to me if I can see sin for what it is, and call it by its right name. When people say "breaking the Ten Commandments is not sin", this is far different from recognizing that we fall short, and are blind, poor, miserable, and naked, and in need of a Saviour. A true Christian will recognize his sinfulness, and ask for pardon and mercy. But he will also exhibit a repentant Spirit.

How can you say this is the same as one saying "Since I can't keep God's law anyway, I'm not even going to try". How does that translate into a converted heart? A converted heart will yearn to please God and be obedient to Him. They will put forth effort, and strive, and press on.

Why do you think Paul and the other apostles say the following?

"You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, 'My Son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when you are reproved by Him; for those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and He scourges every son whom He receives. It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?" (Hebrews 12:4-7)

"Therefore, to one who know the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin." (James 4:17)

"That I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus." (Philippians 3:10-12)

Certainly not what Jesus told Nicodemus, is it? Nicodemus had a different atitude. Are the Gospels reliable? I think so!! Do they conflict? I could never agree to such and atrocious statement. I don't think that is what Jesus is saying in the least. See above about an impossible task and read Ps 14:3, 53:3.Nope as discussed above.Who are the antinomian Christians you refer to? The Christian is subject to the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. This law makes them free from the law of sin and death. This is the same law mentioned in II Cor 3:7 which is engraved in stone. Is there anything besides the 10 Cs engraved in stone? Who's trying to pull a fast one here?Oh my could I ever get into trouble here?And just like the rich young ruller one will walk away sorrowful.The above statement/accusation really adds proof and validity to the claims made. Why can't I just throw it back at you without getting into trouble?Nope I stand on Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8:6-12 and Jesus testimony in Mat 26:28, MK 14:24 and LK 22:20. LK 16:16, Gal 3:19, Jer 31:31-34. I'd be very careful who I was saying destroys God's law. None of the verses I cited give credit to my enemy, satan.Er well what came out of the tabernacle of the testimony that was opened? The stone tablets? How bout 7 angels. Sure sounds like angels living in the ark of the covenant if that is what you wish to say is being referred to in 15:5.

I have no disagreement with you that the law of the Spirit is the one that frees you from sin. What I do not believe is that this law of the Spirit is a license to break the commandments.

Keeping the law cannot save you. Only Jesus Christ can. And if you keep the law without the spirit, it is legalism. The Spirit is what implants the love of God in your heart, so that you obey God and please Him with joy. God does not want robots obeying Him. He wants people who obey Him out of true love. Lucifer was not thrown out of heaven because he broke the law. He was thrown out of heaven because his heart was in rebellion against God, and as a result of this rebellion, he broke the law and was thrown out of heaven. He broke the law of "thou shalt not covet". He also broke "thou shalt not steal" (wish to steal a position that as not his). Did he physically steal the position? Or was it in his heart to do so? That's how you break it. You break it by planning to do it, even though you were not able to do it. He also broke the 5th commandment, by dishonoring his Father. He also broke the first commandment by wanting to make himself equal with God.

The New Testament is a BIG upgrade from scratch. You refer to Jeremiah 31:31-34, but isn't that what I've been trying to say all along? That the laws of God will be written in the heart?

But does the Spirit of the law written in the heart erase the letter? If it erases the letter, you know what that means?

It means it is nothing more than a mere mental ascent to the truth. But a mental ascent to the truth does not constitute righteousness. You can have it in your head, but not in your heart. And if it is in your heart, you will show it by obeying God, and putting forth your God-given effort by His Grace, through Faith alone.

Salvation is by faith alone. And not the works of the law. But you need to be very careful how you digest this information. Only those who are spiritual will catch what this means. This faith is a faith that works by love and purifies the soul.

What good is the law written in your mind if it is not revealed in your actions? Absolutely nothing. It has to not only be in the head, but it must be in the heart also. And if it is in the heart, it WILL be manifested in the character through our actions.

 

[Lionroot]

and with this post we see in full view one of the 10 being broken and even using scripture to back up the sin.
Thou shall not bear false witness.

Exodus 20:16
16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

It's clear you have no idea what this commands is about.

Granted I used a broad brush approach but it is hardly a false claim. Without fail sinners embrace above the law tradition specifically so they can continue to practice. Even Jesus said a dog returns to it's vomit. Without regard for God's Law there is no repentance. Without repentance you are a slave to sin. You will return to it...

BTW I wasn't bearing witness at all, but that's another thread altogether...

Look, I just want you people to open your eyes. It would be unloving not to warn you. Some "Christians" will hear, I never knew you, and what distinguishes them is lawlessness.(mathew 7:23)