Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments?

[bugkiller]

A speed limit is made to correct speeding? How so? How can it?

Yes and it does a fairly good job at doing so.

God gave a requirement that could not be kept? How so? Would that not be ridiculous? unfair?

Yes read Romans 11:32. Who said God had to be fair on our terms?

Does not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit provide the power to do right by the law?

Must not there are stil violations of the OC law today and by Christians to boot.

Did not Jesus live to proof that it could be done?

NO! Jesus came to redeem me.

bugkiller

 

[Lionroot]

Which interpretation was that? I simply reiterated what James 2:10 says. What part of that did you find to be untrue?

You wrote: "It is Scripture which states, concerning law-keeping, that unless you're doing it perfectly, you're not doing it at all. "

This is what you got out of James? In verse 1:22 he encourages you to be a "doer of the word". In verse 2:9 he talks about you being "convicted by the law as transgressors". So how then do you recon that James desires you to disregard the law. Especially when he returns to the subject of sin and the law.

 

[Elder 111]

Elder, I had asked you this previously (post #499) and you haven't responded:

Does your bible not contain Ephesians 2:15 or Colossians 2:14?

In addition to that, does your Bible not contain Galatians 3?

.

It absolutely does. None of them say that the ten commandments are abolished. It also contains Mat 5: 17-18 Rev. 22: 14 Rom 5 and 7 and many others that states that the ten commandments are still God's requirements for us to keep by the in dwelling His Holy Spirit. Is that not what Gal. 5 states?

 

[Elder 111]

That following a set of rules are not what saves a man. That there is only one way to salvation and that is Christ and Him alone. For our salvation is not in our works but in Christ.

Do you regard God's ten commandments "just a set of rules"? God's own commandments to us?
I suppose that rules are meant to be broken.
You know that no christain can claim Christ and violate the ten commandments. That is a fact. How do you then reconcile that with Abolishing then?

 

[Elder 111]

So when you ask this I am left to wonder if you understand the new birth that God gives us through Believing into Christ. Not one of keeping the law but one spurred by the love of God that is shed abroad in our heart by the HS. What can you possible do to add to the death of Christ for which a man is saved?

< staff edit > < staff edit > . Not stealing is adding to the Christ's death? Not lying? not committing adultery? having God is our only God? This is the ten commandments!!
Please, keeping the ten commandments is a demonstration that we are in Christ.

 

[MamaZ]

Do you regard God's ten commandments "just a set of rules"? God's own commandments to us?
I suppose that rules are meant to be broken.
You know that no christain can claim Christ and violate the ten commandments. That is a fact. How do you then reconcile that with Abolishing then?

Jesus fulfilled the full law. He did not leave it undone. This is why our heritage is not in the OC but in the NC. Christs blood. For He is our redeemer and no works can get us any more saved or less saved. So you striving to keep the 10 is dead works imo

 

[MamaZ]

< staff edit > < staff edit > . Not stealing is adding to the Christ's death? Not lying? not committing adultery? having God is our only God? This is the ten commandments!!
Please, keeping the ten commandments is a demonstration that we are in Christ.

Actually this is not what scripture tells us. Scripture tells us that we will be known by our love for one another. For it is those who Have Christs Spirit that are His. Not those who keep the 10

 

[cubinity]

It's not in the keeping them that I have a problem.

It's in any legalism surrounding them that I have a problem.

When Jesus said not one iota of the Law would fall away, I genuinely believe He could say that because He saw the brilliance of what made the Law also the right thing to do.

Now, I'm all for people who are set out to live destructive lives on their own choosing to look at instruction as authoritative and abide by it for no other reason. For example, if you are going to drive 50 mph faster than everyone else, swerve between them at every chance, and run every red light, then I would prefer it if you saw the traffic code as authoritative and just did what it said. That would keep the rest of us safer from your impulsive destructiveness.

On the other hand, if you are a reasonable and responsible, polite and defensive driver with the utmost consideration for others, and you are going to respond appropriately to the behavioral standards exemplified by the community of commuters around you, then I have no objection to you not choosing your behaviors because of the Law, but because you recognize them as the right thing to do. I believe your actions, in that scenario, will be responsible because you are responsible, and that is enough for me.

I believe the Bible sets a strong precedence for such thinking. For example, in 1 Samuel 14, Saul makes an irresponsible commitment that no person in his army can eat before a particular victory. However, not eating is weakening the troops. So, Jonathan, who initially doesn't know of this commitment, but is educated by one of his men, argues that the law was irresponsible, and he did what he believed was right based on reason and consideration for others. When judgment came, Jonathan was spared.

I believe this is what Paul means when he writes to Timothy, "We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful..." 1 Timothy 1:8-9

And also to the Romans, "Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them." Romans 2:14-15

 

[Rajni]

This is what you got out of James?

More specifically, that's what I got out of James 2:10. Do you deny that this is what that verse is saying?

In verse 1:22 he encourages you to be a "doer of the word".

"Doer of the word", not "Doer of the OC Law". The sense in which "the word" is conveyed here, in the original Greek, is "logos". If he wanted to tell folks to be "doers of the Law" ("nomos"), he would have said that.

In verse 2:9 he talks about you being "convicted by the law as transgressors".

Verse 9 simply emphasizes verse 10. If one would try to earn their righteousness and/or salvation through living according to the OC Law, they will inevitably be convicted by it as transgressors, because no one can do it perfectly (a fact further clarified in the following verse, James 2:10)

So how then do you recon that James desires you to disregard the law. Especially when he returns to the subject of sin and the law.

If James is indeed saying we should obey all 613 commandments of the Law, then I can only conclude that, contrary to what I have always believed up till now, Scripture truly is riddled with contradictions, and I would have to reassess my habit of holding in such high esteem the "paper god" called the Bible.
.

 

[Rajni]

It absolutely does. None of them say that the ten commandments are abolished. It also contains Mat 5: 17-18 Rev. 22: 14 Rom 5 and 7 and many others that states that the ten commandments are still God's requirements for us to keep by the in dwelling His Holy Spirit.

So now you're saying that the 10 Commandments are not part of the Law?

Is that not what Gal. 5 states?

Galatians 5 says that the entire law is fulfilled (pléroó) in a single command, to love your neighbor as yourself. That's it. What then complicates it is the critics within churchdom who pick and choose what is "love" and what isn't. But that's a whole 'nother can o' worms.

One other thing, though.... If by "loving our neighbor as ourselves" means living according to the whole law (613 commandments), then part of doing that is to avoid shellfish, not plant two different types of seeds in the same garden, not wear blended fabrics, etc. Somehow I don't think that's what it means, though. Those who go by the letter of the law may have to do that, but not those who go by the spirit of the law, which is Love. God is Love.
.

 

[Lionroot]

Christ simplified the 10 to the Golden rules...

Love God
Love your neighbor as yourself.

On these 2 hinge all the law.

Matthew 22:36
36 Master, which[ is] the great commandment in the law? Matthew 22:37
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Christ simplified the 10 to the Golden rules...

Love God
Love your neighbor as yourself.

On these 2 hinge all the law.

Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which[ is] the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second[ is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

So should we remember the Sabbath because we love God, or we love others?

 

[Lysimachus]

Hebrews 8: 7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

There was a problem with the first covenant. what was it?

8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

The problem was with the people not the covenant itself.

9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

The people did not keep they end of the bargain. the broke the contract. "All that the lord say we will do". That was not the case.

10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The law was not the problem. Here it is again in the new covenant.

If the earthly sanctuary is a copy of the one in Heaven then the 10 commandments is there also. That will also explain why God made it a point of writing it Himself and asking that it be placed under His mercy seat on earth, just as in heaven.
1Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

 

[Elder 111]

Jesus fulfilled the full law. He did not leave it undone. This is why our heritage is not in the OC but in the NC. Christs blood. For He is our redeemer and no works can get us any more saved or less saved. So you striving to keep the 10 is dead works imo

Which one of these ,that Jesus fulfilled for us, we as Christians can violate and still represent Christ's character?
3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13Thou shalt not kill.
14Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15Thou shalt not steal.
16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.



Is Not steal works? not lying is works? not coveting is works? Having God as my only Lord is work? Not having images is works? Now working on the Sabbath is works?

 

[Elder 111]

So now you're saying that the 10 Commandments are not part of the Law?

Galatians 5 says that the entire law is fulfilled (pléroó) in a single command, to love your neighbor as yourself. That's it. What then complicates it is the critics within churchdom who pick and choose what is "love" and what isn't. But that's a whole 'nother can o' worms.

One other thing, though.... If by "loving our neighbor as ourselves" means living according to the whole law (613 commandments), then part of doing that is to avoid shellfish, not plant two different types of seeds in the same garden, not wear blended fabrics, etc. Somehow I don't think that's what it means, though. Those who go by the letter of the law may have to do that, but not those who go by the spirit of the law, which is Love. God is Love.
.

I am not discussing 613 laws. I am dealing with the 10 commandments. The 10 commandments were not treated the same as the other laws by God. Why should we? Should we lie. 10 Should we steal? 10 should we have another God? 10.
Explain to me how we can keep these as christian and say the 10 are abolished. We should violate them, you should never another person for doing wrong. never! For there is no standard of right doing without the law.

 

[Elder 111]

So now you're saying that the 10 Commandments are not part of the Law?

Galatians 5 says that the entire law is fulfilled (pléroó) in a single command, to love your neighbor as yourself. That's it. What then complicates it is the critics within churchdom who pick and choose what is "love" and what isn't. But that's a whole 'nother can o' worms.

One other thing, though.... If by "loving our neighbor as ourselves" means living according to the whole law (613 commandments), then part of doing that is to avoid shellfish, not plant two different types of seeds in the same garden, not wear blended fabrics, etc. Somehow I don't think that's what it means, though. Those who go by the letter of the law may have to do that, but not those who go by the spirit of the law, which is Love. God is Love.
.

What is your reply to #521 and 522

 

[from scratch]

Matthew 22:36
36 Master, which[ is] the great commandment in the law? Matthew 22:37
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

So should we remember the Sabbath because we love God, or we love others?

Is that what Jesus said? Jesus didn't quote any of the 10 Cs. Could that mean there is a greater commandment than any of the 10 Cs? I think if one checks up on me that they'll find Jesus quoted Deut 6 somehitng.

 

[from scratch]

Which one of these ,that Jesus fulfilled for us, we as Christians can violate and still represent Christ's character?
3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13Thou shalt not kill.
14Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15Thou shalt not steal.
16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.



Is Not steal works? not lying is works? not coveting is works? Having God as my only Lord is work? Not having images is works? Now working on the Sabbath is works?

Seeing that Ex 20 is quoted all of them. No I didn't say that one could represent Jesus Christ and murder or worship other gods etc. This has been covered in my thread:
Are you under THE law, Grace or both found here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7546634/#post57061269

It is now in its 2nd 1000 post series found here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7549230/#post57138747

I have answered the with Gal 5 which is the meaning in my signature all of 5.

One will also find there a small discussion on Jeremiah 31:31-34. If more is desired just ask I'll be more than happy to give it. I think the above post is to show that works are required for salvation. That would be very incorrect according to Acts 16:31, Romans 10:9-10 and for those demanding words of Jesus - John 3:1-18.

 

[from scratch]

I am not discussing 613 laws. I am dealing with the 10 commandments. The 10 commandments were not treated the same as the other laws by God. Why should we? Should we lie. 10 Should we steal? 10 should we have another God? 10.
Explain to me how we can keep these as christian and say the 10 are abolished. We should violate them, you should never another person for doing wrong. never! For there is no standard of right doing without the law.

Were these things wrong before the law? If so why wouldn't they be wrong after the law? Yes that is correct after the law - Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Gal 3:19 The words was added and till show a period of time the law was for. The verse also shows the purpose of the law.

Luke 16:16 states that the law was until John. Please note the past tenses word was.

For anybody who questions that the law isn't the 10 Cs read Romans 7:6,7 and James 2:10, 11.

 

[from scratch]

That's correct.

It is a "new" covenant with Jesus, not a re-newed one. They are both separate and distinct.

 

[from scratch]

The sabbath was never given to gentiles.


Psalm 147:19 He declares his word to Jacob,
his statutes and rules to Israel.20 He has not dealt thus with any other nation;they do not know his rules. Praise the LORD!

And just love your verse quote!