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Went ahead and made this thread for the folks who wanted to debate with us in the other thread. Bring it! *puts on helmet*
This is the belief and faith of the Orthodox Church and it is a belief and faith I also have.I believe the Eucharist to be Christ's body and blood, even as the human man Christ was and is the fullness of Divinity.
I believe the Eucharist to be Christ's body and blood, even as the human man Christ was and is the fullness of Divinity.
This is the belief and faith of the Orthodox Church and it is a belief and faith I also have.
Pretty dull "debate" with all of us in agreement here! We need the Official CF Pot Stirrer to post a link to here, a row of angel emoticons & no words whatsoever, over in General Heresies
To be fair, we don't really have statues, that's a Latin thing, but the rest is accurate...I mean accurate in that, that is what we hear..not accurate as in..true. See here I was trying to start a discussion about an important topic and everyone is being silly...I guess I started it off wrong by being silly and civil, I should have yelled and called people schismatic heretics and such.You forgot to add an encouraging invitation to convert to the true faith, such as "Yer goin' ta HELL ya statue lovin' whoremongers!"
To be fair, we don't really have statues, that's a Latin thing, but the rest is accurate...I mean accurate in that, that is what we hear..not accurate as in..true. See here I was trying to start a discussion about an important topic and everyone is being silly...I guess I started it off wrong by being silly and civil, I should have yelled and called people schismatic heretics and such.
I believe the Eucharist to be Christ's body and blood, even as the human man Christ was and is the fullness of Divinity.
I believe the Eucharist to be Christ's body and blood, even as the human man Christ was and is the fullness of Divinity.
While participation in Christ in the Lord's Supper is inseparably connected with [the "horizontal" communion with other believers] and the broader duties of charity, this does not stop Calvin from emphasizing the significance of the vertical communion which takes place in the sacrament. The Lord's Supper involves a "true participation in Christ himself. For those benefits would not come to us unless Christ first made himself ours." Thus, in the Supper believers "grow into one body" with Christ and become "partakers of his substance, that we may also feel his power in partaking of all his benefits." Indeed, Calvin appropriates the notion in Cyril's theology that the flesh of Christ is "life-giving," "pervaded with the fullness of life" and then "transmitted to us" in the Lord's Supper. In one of his many summaries of Cyril, Calvin says that "the flesh of Christ is made vivifying by the agency of the Spirit, so that Christ is in us because the Spirito f God dwells in us." This language of vivification is included in Calvin's liturgy for the Lord's Supper in Geneva. Through the Supper, the souls of the faithful are "nourished and vivified with his [Jesus Christ's] substance." This is followed by a participation of the believer in the ascension of Christ, wherein believers are "raised above all terrestrial objects, and carried as high as heaven, to enter the kingdom of God where he dwells." Through the power of the Spirit, believers participate in the ascent of Christ.
With the eucharistic dispute, the central issue is how one partakes of the "substance" of Christ in the eucharist. Calvin gives a strongly pneumatological account of this participation, claiming that his opponents fail to give sufficient weight to the Spirit as the mode by which believers partake of the flesh of Christ.
This.Brother, Christ himself stated "take eat This is My body" it is undeniable that The Eucharist spiritually transforms into Christ, and no, I disagree that faith is all you need for many will say "Lord Lord" and He will state "DEPART FROM ME!".
The thing is many believe we are in the end times, I agree, why then do they willfully ignore this statement "for they will heap up teachers for themselves to scratch their itching ears". If you do not have valid Apostolic succession in your Church then of course you will believe that the Eucharist is symbolic! Because you have a teacher that you "heaped up" for yourselves and does not have authority to distribute sacraments because he or she! Has not had the laying of the hands.
This is the one thing I can give to Marin Luther, he vehemently defended the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Another legend goes he was debating theology with another major figure of the time (name of the other escapes me) and they were both enjoying some pints of Beer. His opponent said the Eucharist was merely a symbol. Luther got angry and began banging his stein against the table shouting "Hoc est ENIM corpus meum!" This is of course Latin for, "This is my Body", the emphasis on Enim (is), was Luthers.I.
When you get into "classical" views of this, certainly both RC and EO take it literally. This IS my body. Luther and his followers likewise took and take it seriously (the legend goes that Luther carved it into a table with a knife and then walked out on a debate). No mistaking that.