Noah’s Flood Confirmed...?

[Freodin]

I've surmised before that -- just like filling a glass to the rim with water, then sticking your finger in it and making it overflow -- God could have just placed a downward pressure on the ocean, and voila, the Flood.

But of course, you would never ever think of asking Doveaman - a fellow christian brother - the question you would ask "us guys" when we question that the whole earth was covered by a body of water, not a wave.

"Why was Noah on the Ark for a whole year, if it was only a tsunami wave?"

 

[AV1611VET]

But of course, you would never ever think of asking Doveaman - a fellow christian brother - the question you would ask "us guys" when we question that the whole earth was covered by a body of water, not a wave.

"Why was Noah on the Ark for a whole year, if it was only a tsunami wave?"

Why don't you ask him?

 

[Freodin]

Why don't you ask him?

I am not interested in an answer to this question... I am interested in you explaining your double standard.

 

[AV1611VET]

I am not interested in an answer to this question... I am interested in you explaining your double standard.

For what? the tenth time?

You certainly don't want me to inflate my post count with repetition, do you?

 

[Freodin]

For what? the tenth time?

You certainly don't want me to inflate my post count with repetition, do you?

I'm not sure you are meaning the same "double standard" that I mean. I am not referring at your famed "boolean standard", I am referring at your praising certain positions when a "christian" holds it and condemning the same position when a sceptic holds it.

You explained it once as not wanting to argue with your "brothers in Christ" before unbelievers... but not arguing and agreeing are two different things.

I put it down on your dishonest nature, shall I?

 

[freezerman2000]

The deluge myth is not unique to Christianity.
Many religions all claim that their deity/deities were responsible.

The Epic of Gilgamesh is one flood account, and it was written well before Noah's account.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I am not interested in an answer to this question... I am interested in you explaining your double standard.

Or complete lack of any standard.

 

[Doveaman]

Same earth.

But possibly different topography

Nothing in science or in the bible supports it being any different.

I think the river Euphrates has shifted a bit. This would be expected considering the amount of water during the flood.

Well, Mount Ararat was still supposedly there, so we know one thing about it.

I’m surprised that’s all you know. We are not even sure if our Mount Ararat is Noah’s Mount Ararat. And even if it is it didn’t necessarily have to be this high during the flood. Mountains can grow, you know.

Anyway, if you want to say God did everything by God-magic, you can,

Why should I have to? I consider my explanation plausible.

but if you want to pretend any of your arguments have any scientific basis, you have to play by the rules.

Like I said, I consider my explanation plausible. You just happen not to agree with it.

You still need water for tsunamis. And Noah supposedly built his ark on the land. A tsunami would have smashed it to pieces.

Why do you assume a big tsunami came first and not one small enough to set the boat smoothly adrift, or enough rainfall to create water flows that would lift and push the boat gently into the great deep ocean?

“For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water.” - Gen 7:17-18.

Again, you can invoke God-magic all you want, but it's not science.

Well, you have given me no reason to think it isn’t plausible.

This is always what happens, you guys try and pretend like your theories are scientific, only it raises all sorts of holes you have to plug with more halk-baked pseudoscience. Eventually you have to evoke some sort of God-magic anyway.

If there are holes in my theory you are not very good at pointing them out.

 

[AV1611VET]

The Epic of Gilgamesh is one flood account, and it was written well before Noah's account.

Not hardly -- Babylon was built by Noah's great grandson, Nimrod.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Such as Quirinius calling the entire world in for census.

[nitpick]

Caesar Augustus (supposedly) sent the decree ... when Quirinius was governor of Syria

[/nitpick]

 

[Doveaman]

Meh. It wasn't global. Plenty of verses speak of the entire world but it's clear from context it was a local phenomenon.

I suppose you believe the verses contradict each other.

In any case, everything the breathed on land died, which was the purpose of the flood.

"Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died." - Gen 7:22.

Besides, there is not enough water on the earth to cover the entire planet with water.

You mean as it appears today?

I’m sure the conditions in Noah’s time were different to ours. It’s not possible for any of us today to live for 950 years as Noah did. Such life spans would require very different conditions from what we now live in.

Unless of course you elevated the deeps and lowered the mountains.

You are assuming the mountains were always this high. They weren’t.

Of course if you did THAT far enough you won't need much water at all. A lake should do. Provided the surface doesn't just suck up all the water that is. But mountains shrinking and deeps elevating for a short time is... Nonsensical.

I agree.

The flood was local. Nothing indicates a global flood.

Except your own statement on line one:

Plenty of verses speak of the entire world

Plenty of verses speaking of the entire world are indicators, even if you don't agree they are.

 

[Ar Cosc]

Doveaman, with an all-powerful God, nothing would be impossible or implausible, however, I question the logic of using thousands of precisely engineered tsunamis to send a limited amount of water crashing over every point on earth, when you're an omnipotent deity who can just magic as much water as you need into existence with a flick of your beard.

 

[freezerman2000]

Not hardly -- Babylon was built by Noah's great grandson, Nimrod.

Gilgamesh wasn't of Babylonian origins, it was Sumerian...BTW, my wife's Bible says that Nimrod RULED in Babylon, nothing about him building it...

 

[Doveaman]

I've surmised before that -- just like filling a glass to the rim with water, then sticking your finger in it and making it overflow -- God could have just placed a downward pressure on the ocean, and voila, the Flood.

Yeah, like when the sides of mountains crumble and fall into the ocean creating some pretty big waves. Noah probably saw mountains crumbling too.

 

[Doveaman]

But of course, you would never ever think of asking Doveaman - a fellow christian brother - the question you would ask "us guys" when we question that the whole earth was covered by a body of water, not a wave.

"Why was Noah on the Ark for a whole year, if it was only a tsunami wave?"

Waves, not wave. As in plural. In addition to forty days of rain. Together they would have produced enough water to cover all the land masses in Noah’s time.

I am referring at your praising certain positions when a "christian" holds it and condemning the same position when a sceptic holds it.

A sceptic holds my position? Great!

 

[Doveaman]

The deluge myth is not unique to Christianity.
Many religions all claim that their deity/deities were responsible.

That’s probably because Noah and his family made sure their descendants remember their history. As various religions developed they all celebrated their history (including the flood event) as a part of their religious traditions. No surprise there.

 

[AV1611VET]

Gilgamesh wasn't of Babylonian origins, it was Sumerian...BTW, my wife's Bible says that Nimrod RULED in Babylon, nothing about him building it...

From the American Heritage Dictionary:

The semidivine king of Erech, a city of southern Babylonia, and hero of an epic collection of mythic tales, one of which tells of a flood that covered the earth.

And for the record:

Genesis 10:8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
Genesis 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
Genesis 10:10 And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.

This is one of my favorite sites:

The Sixteen Grandsons of Noah

 

[Doveaman]

The Epic of Gilgamesh is one flood account, and it was written well before Noah's account.

And the actual flood event happened before both accounts. That’s probably why both accounts (though they differ in the details) refer back to the same historical event. The fact that two historical accounts refer back to the same event lends support to the historicity of the event. No surprise there, either.

 

[freezerman2000]

And the actual flood event happened before both accounts. That’s probably why both accounts (though they differ in the details) refer back to the same historical event. The fact that two historical accounts refer back to the same event lends support to the historicity of the event. No surprise there, either.

Yet, the writing of the two accounts differ in when they were written...Gilgamesh was earlier by far...the Sumerians were the first to have a written alphabet and predate Moses.

 

[AV1611VET]

And the actual flood event happened before both accounts. That’s probably why both accounts (though they differ in the details) refer back to the same historical event. The fact that two historical accounts refer back to the same event lends support to the historicity of the event. No surprise there, either.

Hey, bro --

I don't normally like to build on another brother's foundation, but this point is a sore spot with me.

Yes, there are accounts of a world-wide flood in many empires around the globe, but the fact remains that they have severe discrepancies in the details.

This points to what we call Diabolical Plagiarism, whereby Satan had conflicting accounts of this flood as well.

The Truth is, Shem, Noah's son, lived right up to the time of Jacob, and would have provided eyewitness testimony of the Flood until then.

I can surmise that Shem had very heated arguments with Nimrod, about his Epic of Gilgamesh.

In short, Shem was there -- Nimrod wasn't.

These other flood accounts can take a hike.