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Liberating Motherhood

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Davidnic

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Oh yes.

I bowed out ages ago.

I've got some chocolate mousse. Want some?

Bowing out myself. It is too much like doing the Creed threads all over again. Unsubscribing just to save myself the frustration.
 
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Antigone

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Bowing out myself. It is too much like doing the Creed threads all over again. Unsubscribing just to save myself the frustration.

Are you sure you don't want any mousse?

It's all yummy and delicious and it's got this white chocolate sauce on it.

chocolate_mousse2.jpg
 
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SolomonVII

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......I still have to laugh at benedicto's hormonal cycle view though. Can you image a woman in a court telling the judge she killed her children because of her hormones? lol.
That is a pretty hilarious of what womanhood is all about.

Yes, as David says, stupid will always persist.
 
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Gwendolyn

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You have not read his encyclical on modernism then. You need to probably re-read it. He never condemned science. I've read the whole thing, and many others in the Enchiridionregarding modernism. He condemned something called by the term "biblical", not the actual studying of scriptures. And states that the scriptures must be read within the light of the apostolic deposit, the ancient fathers, and the analogy of the faith. His words have just as much weight back then as they do now. Just like Humanie Vitie does.

The issue of Psychology is brought up because it taught people they should work out their problems without God. He condemned the secular form of it.

Actually, I just studied the document two weeks ago in my 19th and 20th century theology class, with a very orthodox professor. We covered issues in the document itself, and the historical interactions of the pope and theologians of the time. I only repeated the things we read and learned in class.

I have a BA from an orthodox Catholic university and I am applying for a master's degree in theology - so I am not stupid. I just disagree that it is a grave sin for a woman to work if need be.

A woman was not considered property. A marriage was understood as a union. Both spouses are property of each others. They become one flesh and one unit. Like St. Paul says. The Church always understood that marriage is a union, not where 2 independent people live together. It also condemned the ownership of slaves and taught that no one is property and everyone is made in the dignity of God's image. Hence women were not property in families following the Catholic faith. The teaching that a wife should be submissive to her husband, does not make her property, but is found in the context of love, trust, and self giving which guides spouses on the code of conduct in marriage.

Perhaps you need to read some 19th century history. Marriage was indeed understood as I reported. What you are describing is how the Church currently understands marriage. Yes, we always held a covenantal understanding, but it was also tainted by the historical understanding of marriage - wherein a woman was subsumed into the man, and she and her property became his property. That was how "two become one" was understood - one being subsumed into the other. Just google it. You'll find a wikipedia article. Our understanding of two becoming one new marital entity, instead of one being subsumed into the other, has only been prominent within the last 60 years or so.

It is like we are talking two different languages here. Everyone else in this thread is saying, "It is not a grave sin for a woman to work," and you are hearing, "women have a right to be materialistic and neglect their familial obligations". No one has said that, not even once.

Anyway, I'm writing this from the hospital and I have surgery in a few hours, so I'm bowing out. I can see that we are talking past each other and you do not care what any of us have to say. You are only concerned with condemning a view that none of us hold (that a woman can neglect her family if she feels like it), which serves no purpose.
 
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Meepy

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Nope, not even close and the Vatican disagrees with you. Veiling a custom mentioned in Scripture, a Pius discipline. It has no dogmatic grade and is not even in the realm of dogmatic theology. It is a custom and a practice. The Church is clear that it is not something than needs to be adhered to.

I never said it was a dogma. But it is a theological conclusion. It was quite clear in the Code of Canon law. Especially when going to the Eucharist.
[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]
[/FONT]Canon 1262, that women must cover their heads -- "especially when they approach the holy table" ("mulieres autem, capite cooperto et modeste vestitae, maxime cum ad mensam Dominicam accedunt")

it doesn't need to be adhered to. Just as the rosary doesn't need to be adhered too. It is not a dogma, like you say. But it pertains to the faith because it is written in divine revelation and the ancient fathers. And because it is in divine revelation and in explicit writings of the ancient fathers, it is a sententia fidie promixa(proximate to the faith). Or on the levels of Theologica Certa(Church teachings without final approval but clearly deduced from revelation).

Sententia Fidie Promixa - Church teachings, which are generally accepted as divine revelation but not defined as dogma as such by the magisterium

Veiling would fall under this category. Hence it floats between the 3rd and 4rd degree's of theological certainty.

St. Paul never claimed it was because of custom though. He claimed it was because of the angels and authority.

http://www.fisheaters.com/theveil.html
 
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SolomonVII

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Its solomons new future tubby bride!

I bet you can't wait for her solomonVII! lol

that looks more like Boston Creme pie than mousse though.
Only when they change these freaking monogamy laws. around here.
We can only hope legalizing same sex will have that effect, and then I can go for some of the good stuff like that.:p
Yum. Yum.

Mousse?
I heard moose!!

My bad.
 
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Meepy

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You knwo, describing conversations as dumb and stupid really have a great effect on what follows.
Has anyone else noticed that?

Threads are seldom shut down after that happens.


yea, it seems the ladies were kinda making you angry earlier on, lol. And now you are eating cyber mousse with them :)
 
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SolomonVII

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yea, it seems the ladies were kinda making you angry earlier on, lol. And now you are eating cyber mousse with them :)
Forgive and forget.
That is my motto.:)
Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow, you may be banned.
 
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SolomonVII

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Last two pages talking about mousse are a massive step up from the conversation preceding.
:wave:
Have another mousse with me and my ilk, radical mama?
Your husband will find you sooooeew much more attractive and irrisistible if you do.
 
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