Liberating Motherhood

[Antigone]

and lets not forget about the men who snap and go ballistic when they find out there is serious financial problems, he's losing the house or his high powered job and he does not know what the family is going to do, so he snaps and goes home and blows every body's brains out.

That actually happens A LOT! so we are not going to do this... were not going to ONLY look at the women and ignore them men who do this too.

About 20 years ago around the corner form me, this really did happen, man who had money issues, did not know how to handle the stress and he killed his family and himself. And we are contemplating on getting a new house on the same block. I have to make sure its not the same house. I don't want a house that a man killed his family in.

FYI - 27% of all custodial single mothers and their kids live below the poverty line, as opposed to 12.9% of all custodial single fathers.

(source)

 

[higherFaith]

If this keeps up the mods will lock the thread, then you wont have anything to say, either sides.

 

[BAFRIEND]

FYI - 27% of all custodial single mothers and their kids live below the poverty line, as opposed to 12.9% of all custodial single fathers.

(source)

so you would agree that statisically the fathers should be given the custody of the kids not the mothers- it just makes sense

 

[Meepy]

But why do you say it like that? Its good will shown to the man becuase she loves him and loves God. In return he'll go to WORK for her.

Don't forget, she does this becuase she loves God.

of course, because being good to your spouse is so horrid and awful. Its much better to argue with each other about how they don't make each other happy enough all the time.

the fact that you would mock spouses being good to one another really is not a very charitable thing. It goes against charity and the parable of giving ones coat to another. If a wife being good to her husband really gets to you, then there is some unresolved issue that must be going on or some displaced anger from trauma or bad experience with a man(like coming across a man who beats his wife)

I think. Like most feminists. They displace their hatred for men in the wrong aspects. Like assuming all men are rapists, or dogs, or wife beaters. And sadly, instead of taking the issue directly, like rape and violence, they decide to attack marriage as an institution instead. I think that might be your problem maybe.

Take the issue with abandonment and abuse. But don't start attacking the whole institution and role of traditional marriage as a whole. And don't act that a wife doing something nice for her husband has some bad ulterior motive behind it. That is a very harmful way to view marriage. Marriage isn't as complicated as some portray.


lol. And people wonder why the US has the highest divorce rate in the world. It seems a wife today in the US cannot even do something good for her husband without her being branded a "slave".

 

[BAFRIEND]

and lets not forget about the men who snap and go ballistic when they find out there is serious financial problems, he's losing the house or his high powered job and he does not know what the family is going to do, so he snaps and goes home and blows every body's brains out.

That actually happens A LOT! so we are not going to do this... were not going to ONLY look at the women and ignore them men who do this too.

About 20 years ago around the corner form me, this really did happen, man who had money issues, did not know how to handle the stress and he killed his family and himself. And we are contemplating on getting a new house on the same block. I have to make sure its not the same house. I don't want a house that a man killed his family in.

oh but that is wrong and the man is evil

but what you were arguing prior is that the man is to blame when the woman does it because she was mentally ill and did nothing

in the case above, to follow your logic, the wife who was murdered with by her husband has only herself to blame because she did nothing to help him

 

[benedictaoo]

in the case above, to follow your logic, the wife who was murdered with by her husband has only herself to blame because she did nothing to help him

Yep, she didn't have that abortion.

 

[benedictaoo]

so you would agree that statisically the fathers should be given the custody of the kids not the mothers- it just makes sense

but one problem, they don't want custody.

 

[Antigone]

so you would agree that statisically the fathers should be given the custody of the kids not the mothers- it just makes sense

I would if I thought money was what made a good parent.

Are fathers denied custody too often? Yes.
But it seems a bit surfacial saying that single women make worse parents than single men without looking at their financial backgrounds a bit more closely.

EDIT: Yeah, I'm with Higherfaith on this one. I'm done with this debate. Toodles, poodles.

 

[Meepy]

I hope you are being facetious and you aren't actually serious, if so, wow.

and doesn't your wife work?

If she does, according to Meepy, you don't listen to the Church.

According to the popes, she is not supposed to and its even criminal.

Your wife is a criminal becuase she works. And don't argue, the pope said so, so now you are just arguing with the pope.

I never said that. Pope Pius XI was talking about the emancipation of women and careerism. Specifically women who put materialism and career over motherhood and children. Yes, Pope Pius XI considers that a crime because it is crime against motherhood and natural law.

This, however, is not the true emancipation of woman, nor that rational and exalted liberty which belongs to the noble office of a Christian woman and wife; it is rather the debasing of the womanly character and the dignity of motherhood, and indeed of the whole family, as a result of which the husband suffers the loss of his wife, the children of their mother, and the home and the whole family of an ever watchful guardian

The same false teachers who try to dim the luster of conjugal faith and purity do not scruple to do away with the honorable and trusting obedience which the woman owes to the man. Many of them even go further and assert that such a subjection of one party to the other is unworthy of human dignity, that the rights of husband and wife are equal; wherefore, they boldly proclaim the emancipation of women has been or ought to be effected. This emancipation in their ideas must be threefold, in the ruling of the domestic society, in the administration of family affairs and in the rearing of the children. It must be social, economic, physiological: – physiological, that is to say, the woman is to be freed at her own good pleasure from the burdensome duties properly belonging to a wife as companion and mother (We have already said that this is not an emancipation but a crime); social, inasmuch as the wife being freed from the cares of children and family, should, to the neglect of these, be able to follow her own bent and devote herself to business and even public affairs; finally economic, whereby the woman even without the knowledge and against the wish of her husband may be at liberty to conduct and administer her own affairs, giving her attention chiefly to these rather than to children, husband and family. - Pope Pius XI on Christian Marriage

 

[BAFRIEND]

I would if I thought money was what made a good parent.

Are fathers denied custody too often? Yes.
But it seems a bit surfacial saying that single women make worse parents than single men without looking at their financial backgrounds a bit more closely.

EDIT: Yeah, I'm with Higherfaith on this one. I'm done with this debate. Toodles, poodles.

but antigone- you pointed out that women will abuse their children and are incapable of earning a living above the poverty line

you pointed out that in those circumstances they are more likely to do nothing to better the situation for their children while the father will and women will just kick back and wait for a manreplacement while mistreating the kids

now your saying that women can be a better single parent, help me because i just dont understand your logic

 

[benedictaoo]

17% for fathers, 40% for mothers.

40% doesn't mean everyone. The other 60% make it. But 40% is a blaring red light that something is very wrong regarding spouses not needing each other.

In Catholic teaching, marriage is taught as a series of conjugal duties and a self reciprocation of love, sacrifice, and good works between the spouses. There is a synergistic action between all people in the household. Some parts can seem hard and boring, but it is done for the greater good, love, and sacrifice for ones spouse and God. Each person must keep the marriage well oiled, so to say, otherwise if one part of the marriage is hurting, the whole part is. Husbands should love their wives as Christ loved his disciples. Wives should reverence their husbands as one would reverence the Church itself. When a wife submits to her husband, she does so out of love for him and God, not because she feels forced to. The Husband then protects, nourishes, and supports his wife and children. There is a self giving over to ones spouse. As neither the wife or husband is independent of themselves anymore, but rather a union of one together(one flesh).

conjugal duties ? Really now...

Wow...

I don't know about that Meep... my husband gets annoyed if I refer to that as a duty. He wants me to want him, not feel its just another chore.

I thought it was out of love and becuase you want him, not becuase its your duty...

You so keep contradicting yourself and you don't even know that you do. Thats whats funny.

 

[Meepy]

conjugal duties ? Really now...

Wow...

I don't know about that Meep... my husband gets annoyed if I refer to that as a duty. He wants me to want him, not feel its just another chore.

I thought it was out of love and becuase you want him, not becuase its your duty...

You so keep contradicting yourself and you don't even know that you do. Thats whats funny.

yes, benedicto, DUTIES. Yes, we actually have responsibilities and duties in marriage. I know, having to feed a child automatically makes a mother a slave *gasp* .

..We'll just abolish all duties in marriage and then the children can be neglected and starved to death..



Maybe that is why neglect is so high in single mother households??

So according to your confused logic, the laity's duty to go to mass on sunday must mean they must not love Christ anymore or love being a christian. Am I correct? Or the tons of documents that talk about the duties of a christian. Like the duty that the rich have to help the poor. Or the duty to not defraud your neighbor.

obviously there are duties within marriage. Like a mother feeding her child is a duty. Jesus has a 3-fold kingship. One of which is lawgiver. Surely one cannot go through marriage thinking they have no duties or responsibilities. Just as a man has his duty to support and contribute to the wellbeing of his families.

Women, again, are not suited for certain occupations; a woman is by nature fitted for home-work, and it is that which is best adapted at once to preserve her modesty and to promote the good bringing up of children and the well-being of the family. As a general principle it may be laid down that a workman ought to have leisure and rest proportionate to the wear and tear of his strength, for waste of strength must be repaired by cessation from hard work. - Pope Leo XIII 'Rerum Novarum'



Mothers, concentrating on household duties, should work primarily in the home or in its immediate vicinity. It is an intolerable abuse, and to be abolished at all cost, for mothers on account of the father's low wage to be forced to engage in gainful occupations outside the home to the neglect of their proper cares and duties, especially the training of children. Every effort must therefore be made that fathers of families receive a wage large enough to meet ordinary family needs adequately. But if this cannot always be done under existing circumstances, social justice demands that changes be introduced as soon as possible whereby such a wage will be assured to every adult workingman. It will not be out of place here to render merited praise to all, who with a wise and useful purpose, have tried and tested various ways of adjusting the pay for work to family burdens in such a way that, as these increase, the former may be raised and indeed, if the contingency arises, there may be enough to meet extraordinary needs. - Pope Pius XI "quadragesimo anno"

 

[SolomonVII]

so you would agree that statisically the fathers should be given the custody of the kids not the mothers- it just makes sense

It would follow from the argument that greater abuse is the result of greater poverty.

 

[benedictaoo]

sounds more like a selfish nutcase with bi-polar disorder and thinks as if they are the only ones under stress.

Really? You really think that? You are proud of this remark? You are going to still stand by this remark?

Hmmm, okay but you are aware that we are referring to actual documented cases that where psychosis was involved? You know this right? Right?

But I find it interesting that you would be this callous and nonchalant towards someone who has bi polar disorder... and it gives me a little window into your world... know what I mean?

You really think is Christ like at all? Really? Being this callous and uncaring and just dismissing like that a very prevalent metal illness that equally effects men as well as women?

My dad was bi polar (he's dead now) and suffered immensely, so I take personal offense to this comment.

Wow... so if your wife was one day diagnosed with Bipolar disorder, this would be your attitude?

wow. Just wow.

Usually with people like that nothing will make them happy.

thats becuase there is something wrong with their brain.

Because they are always looking for something wrong.

Becuase there is something wrong... with their brain.

Want a scapegoat for their "hormone problems".

Like a thyroid cancer maybe?

Or a brain tumor? Did you know that can effect hormones?

The walking on eggshells types pretty much who think in a very 'centered' type of mindset.

So people do not get sick ever? There is no illness that has profound effects on the brain and/or hormones?

A woman with that type of emotional state should not be in a marriage. If she cannot handle herself or her emotions she is not ready for marriage. If she only thinks about her happiness all the time then she is not ready.

So can w just take her out to the pasture and shoot her?

Thank the Lord I never married a woman like that. I know some who have and they are at each others necks all the time. I remember dating some when I was young too. Those types are not marriage material.

Never say never. After the birth of your first child, you just wait- you are in for a special, special treat and I can't think of anyone who better deserves it.

And then we look at the blessed Mother. Who says, "YOUR will be done", not "my will be done". Who rode on a donkey all the way to Egypt with her husband,, pregnant, and gave birth in a manger. Who trusted God and her husband. Here we see the humility and love of a real woman who loves her husband and God. This is the model families should follow. The humility of Mary and the protection and guidance of Joseph. Their ultimate trust in both of each other and God. Joseph didn't abandon Mary at the times of trial, nor did Mary complain about "her happiness" and what "she wanted", nor blame Joseph, but rather ultimately followed God in love with her husband in filial trust.

You are in no position to even bring up the Blessed Mother.

This is the sacrifice and love I am talking about that is needed in marriage.

Like I said, 23 years baby- come and talk to me if you can make it last that long with as many children we have.

Meepy, seriously, based on what you just posted, that I do not now how you are not embarrassed by it, but please do not respond to anyone's thread that seek prayers for mental illness. There were a few very recently that spoke about being stressed due to taking care of a baby and one who had a nervous breakdown from carrying the weight of the world around on her shoulders.

If this was not so pathetic and sad, it would be funny.

If you try to post in a thread like that, it would be very disingenuous of you.

 

[benedictaoo]

yes, benedicto, DUTIES. Yes, we actually have responsibilities and duties in marriage. I know, having to feed a child automatically makes a mother a slave *gasp* .

..We'll just abolish all duties in marriage and then the children can be neglected and starved to death..



Maybe that is why neglect is so high in single mother households??

So according to your confused logic, the laity's duty to go to mass on sunday must mean they must not love Christ anymore or love being a christian. Am I correct? Or the tons of documents that talk about the duties of a christian. Like the duty that the rich have to help the poor. Or the duty to not defraud your neighbor.

obviously there are duties within marriage. Like a mother feeding her child is a duty. Jesus has a 3-fold kingship. One of which is lawgiver. Surely one cannot go through marriage thinking they have no duties or responsibilities. Just as a man has his duty to support and contribute to the wellbeing of his families.

Women, again, are not suited for certain occupations; a woman is by nature fitted for home-work, and it is that which is best adapted at once to preserve her modesty and to promote the good bringing up of children and the well-being of the family. As a general principle it may be laid down that a workman ought to have leisure and rest proportionate to the wear and tear of his strength, for waste of strength must be repaired by cessation from hard work. - Pope Leo XIII 'Rerum Novarum'



Mothers, concentrating on household duties, should work primarily in the home or in its immediate vicinity. It is an intolerable abuse, and to be abolished at all cost, for mothers on account of the father's low wage to be forced to engage in gainful occupations outside the home to the neglect of their proper cares and duties, especially the training of children. Every effort must therefore be made that fathers of families receive a wage large enough to meet ordinary family needs adequately. But if this cannot always be done under existing circumstances, social justice demands that changes be introduced as soon as possible whereby such a wage will be assured to every adult workingman. It will not be out of place here to render merited praise to all, who with a wise and useful purpose, have tried and tested various ways of adjusting the pay for work to family burdens in such a way that, as these increase, the former may be raised and indeed, if the contingency arises, there may be enough to meet extraordinary needs. - Pope Pius XI "quadragesimo anno"

Contraction- you said its out of love and charity and becuase you love God.

not out of a sense of duty. I said its a job... but you said no.

You are one big ball of contradiction.

 

[higherFaith]

 

[benedictaoo]

Please do not allow anything Meepy says effect you personally, okay?

I mean what are we going to do? Pray for them I guess.

Its only when you go through stuff you can know that these things are for real.

You just have to feel sorry for people like that and hope to God they never have to go through it.

 

[benedictaoo]

I never said that. Pope Pius XI was talking about the emancipation of women and careerism. Specifically women who put materialism and career over motherhood and children. Yes, Pope Pius XI considers that a crime because it is crime against motherhood and natural law.

This, however, is not the true emancipation of woman, nor that rational and exalted liberty which belongs to the noble office of a Christian woman and wife; it is rather the debasing of the womanly character and the dignity of motherhood, and indeed of the whole family, as a result of which the husband suffers the loss of his wife, the children of their mother, and the home and the whole family of an ever watchful guardian

The same false teachers who try to dim the luster of conjugal faith and purity do not scruple to do away with the honorable and trusting obedience which the woman owes to the man. Many of them even go further and assert that such a subjection of one party to the other is unworthy of human dignity, that the rights of husband and wife are equal; wherefore, they boldly proclaim the emancipation of women has been or ought to be effected. This emancipation in their ideas must be threefold, in the ruling of the domestic society, in the administration of family affairs and in the rearing of the children. It must be social, economic, physiological: – physiological, that is to say, the woman is to be freed at her own good pleasure from the burdensome duties properly belonging to a wife as companion and mother (We have already said that this is not an emancipation but a crime); social, inasmuch as the wife being freed from the cares of children and family, should, to the neglect of these, be able to follow her own bent and devote herself to business and even public affairs; finally economic, whereby the woman even without the knowledge and against the wish of her husband may be at liberty to conduct and administer her own affairs, giving her attention chiefly to these rather than to children, husband and family. - Pope Pius XI on Christian Marriage

So yes or no... do you agree with BA's wife working or not?

 

[benedictaoo]

Interesting data, that's all. Leads me to believe that not only do women need men, but families need fathers
Remind me once again, though, how sorry you are for ganging up on me,
how much you really do like and respect me.
Not feeling the love yet.

 

[higherFaith]

Please do not allow anything Meepy says effect you personally, okay?

I mean what are we going to do? Pray for them I guess.

Its only when you go through stuff you can know that these things are for real.

You just have to feel sorry for people like that and hope to God they never have to go through it.

I think we all need prayers. And hugs, hugs and prayers.